Post by Rob Caprio on Oct 28, 2020 20:17:14 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Marina_Oswald.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot and killed President John F. Kennedy (JFK) on November 22, 1963, all by himself. They further claimed that he shot and killed Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit (JDT) as well as took a shot at retired General Edwin A. Walker (EAW).
As we have seen repeatedly in this series the evidence presented in the twenty-six volumes (Commission Exhibits – CE) and the Commission Documents (CD) simply do not support the claims made in the WC Report (WCR).
This post will look at another claim made by the WC regarding Marina Oswald’s ability to understand and speak the English language.
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Marina Oswald repeatedly claimed to know very little English as she was asked about this in her testimony before the WC.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have any formal aid or teaching of English by anyone?
Mrs. OSWALD. I had no formal instructions in it, but a Russian acquaintance, Mr. Bouhe, wrote down some Russian phrases, and I would try to translate them into English.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, since you have been living with the Martins, I assume you haven't had any Russian friends to try to translate English for you, is that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. If you do not count Mr. Gopadze and the FBI interpreter, I have not been in contact with any Russians.
Mr. RANKIN. And there were considerable periods during the time you have been living with the Martins when neither Mr. Gopadze or the FBI agent or translator were present, is that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. So have you been able to learn a little more English while you have been with the Martins than you had before, because of that experience?
Mrs. OSWALD. Only a little, I think.
At least it is very useful for me to live with an American family who do not speak Russian.
Mr. RANKIN. That has helped you to learn some English, more than when you were living with Mrs. Paine, who could speak Russian to you. I take it.
Mrs. OSWALD. Of course.
We see from this exchange that Marina only claimed to know a very little amount of English. This is further confirmed by the fact that she had translators provided to her after the assassination and during the WC testimony. On the day of the assassination Ilya Mamantov was called in to translate for her on November 22.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Mamantov, the Commission desires to inquire of you because of your acquaintance with the De Mohrenschildts, and your work with the Dallas City Police on November 22 and 23.
Mr. MAMANTOV. The 22d.
Mr. JENNER. The 22d only, and you translated for Marina Oswald in that connection?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right.
We also know that she had other translators as well. She, and the WC, used this to portray her as a person who was isolated in a foreign country without even understanding the language. But is this a correct assessment of the situation? This is really important because the lack of understanding English was a key reason for why she seemed so confused, and why she feared deportation supposedly.
Her business manager, James Martin said that she understood English in his WC testimony.
Mr. RANKIN. Did she understand English enough to understand what you were talking about?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. REDLICH. I would like to call the attention of the Commission to the date which is Sunday, December 15. You say as of Sunday, December 15, which is a little over 3 weeks after she came to live with you, Mrs. Oswald knew English well enough to be able to read this and understand it?
Mr. MARTIN. Not to read it legibly, I mean not to understand every word of it but she understood the biggest part of the article. I was quite amazed at how much she could read. She can't read writing or says she can't, but she can read printing or typing.
This testimony seems to show that Marina could read English and understand it to a point. FBI Agent Charles Brown would tell the Church Committee (CC) in 1975 that he and Special Agent James Hosty thought she understood English a good bit better than she let on.
Quote on
Shortly after the assassination of President KENNEDY on November 22, 1963, I participated in an interview with MARINA OSWALD at the Inn of Six Flags, Arlington, Texas, along with Special Agent JIM HOSTY, and an interpreter from the U.S. Secret Service, whose name I do not recall. During the course of this interview, MARINA spoke very little and we had the impression that she understood English much better than she indicated but was not communicating with us on that evening... (NARA Record Number: 124-10371-10184; HSCA Administrative Folder, p. 54)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9905#relPageId=39
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Agents Brown and Hosty were trained agents, so their opinion carry weight. It makes sense that Marina would have been taught English if she was some kind of operative herself as many researchers have believed over the years.
During her time on the witness stand at the Clay Shaw trial she was again asked about whether or not she understood English.
Q: Here in New Orleans. I see. And that was while you and he were living here together, is that right?
A: Yes, but I don't know if it was political speech or what, because at that time I didn't speak English and didn't understand.
Q: You say at that time you did not speak any English?
A: No, sir.
And this variegated testimony from the House Select Committee On Assassinations (HSCA) testimony again shows that according to her she didn’t speak or understand English at the time of the assassination.
Mr. McDONALD. Did you ever study English in the Soviet Union?
Mrs. PORTER. Me? No.
Mr. PREYER. Do you recall whether he called anyone to say he was back in the United States?
Mrs. PORTER. Well, I did not speak English at the time, so if he used the phone, if somebody called for somebody, I wouldn't know about that, unless he told me.
Mr. McDONALD. You could not speak English at the time?
Mrs. PORTER. No.
Mr. PREYER - First, Mrs. Porter, I understand that at the time you testified before the Warren Commission, you could not speak or understand English very well.
Mrs. PORTER – That is correct.
Mr. PREYER - You did not use it in the course of your everyday activities, the English language.
Mrs. PORTER - I testified before Warren Commission more than once, and they always provide interpreter for me.
Mr. PREYER - So that you did need a translator when you testified before the Warren Commission.
Mrs. PORTER – That is correct.
This testimony before the HSCA confirms that she was not able to communicate in English according to her. So why was she trying to call LHO by telephone then?
Q: How did you attempt to contact him?
A: He left a telephone number where he could be reached, and I called by this number and asked for him, but landlady or whoever answered the phone said nobody by this name lived there.
How could she understand what the person said if she couldn’t understand English? How could she explain what she wanted if she did not speak English? This would be impossible of course. The WC must have had some doubts as they asked quite a few witnesses about this issue.
Probably the best person to ask since LHO was dead was his mother Marguerite since she spent time in a hotel with her following the assassination. Let’s examine her testimony regarding this issue.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you talk to Marina, and did she speak English to you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, she spoke English, Mr. Rankin. Like she would say--and we used the dictionary when she didn't understand.
She would say--I would say, "Marina, you now nurse your baby."
"Yes, Mama. The time."
Or "No time."
With motions--"no time, Mama."
She spoke English.
Mr. RANKIN. What I would like to find out for the Commission, if we can, in regard to speaking English, did you think she was able to talk English fluently, or did you think she was in the process of learning it?
Mrs. OSWALD. She was in the process of learning. But she understood more than she could talk. And I have a letter from Lee stating that Marina also speaks and understands French, that she had learned at grammar school.
Mr. RANKIN. Why does that show she was involved in any conspiracy?
Mrs. OSWALD. Because I am going to try to show there is discrepancies all along. She was not supposed to speak English. I testified that I, myself, questioned her for an FBI agent. I acted as interpreter. So Marina did know English and understand English. So that is a question.
Mr. RANKIN. I thought you said she spoke broken English.
Mrs. OSWALD. Broken English. But she is not supposed to speak English at all, until now that she has learned English. That has been publicized over and over.
Mr. RANKIN. And you think she could understand English fluently?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir. I also told you when she lived with me that month in my home, how we conversed and talked. And yet the impression is that Marina came here and didn't speak English at all.
This is the key part as the American people were told that Marina Oswald couldn’t speak any English and clearly she could. Further proof of this comes from the supposed destruction of a backyard photograph right after the assassination. Something doesn’t add up here.
Mr. RANKIN. And after the quarrel, did you leave there?
Mrs. OSWALD. I went to my room. But then I showed Lee's mother the photograph, where he is photographed with a rifle, and told her he had shot at Walker and it appeared he might have been shooting at the President. She said that I should hide that photograph and not show it to anyone.
On the next day I destroyed one photograph which I had. I think I had two small ones. When we were in the hotel I burned it.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you say anything to her about the destruction of the photographs when she suggested that?
Mrs. OSWALD. She saw it, while I was destroying them.
How could Marina say anything to Marguerite when she supposedly didn’t speak English? This sounds like a conversation and that would be impossible since Marguerite didn’t speak Russian and Marina didn’t speak English supposedly. Why was this not pointed out by the WC?
Also, this would show that another backyard photograph had existed at the very least (I say this as based on Marina’s testimony she could have destroyed two photographs). How many photographs really existed?
I think Marina Oswald tipped her hand as she said this in her testimony.
Mr. RANKIN. Have you ever heard that he used the fictitious name Hidell?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. When did you first learn that he used such a name?
Mrs. OSWALD. In New Orleans.
Mr. RANKIN. How did you learn that?
Mrs. OSWALD. When he was interviewed by some anti-Cubans, he used this name and spoke of an organization. I knew there was no such organization. And I know that Hidell is merely an altered Fidel, and I laughed at such foolishness. My imagination didn't work that way.
The interview was conducted in English, so how could she know what was being said? By the way, as we have seen before in this series the name “Hidell” was never mentioned during the radio interview. But she also offers up the notion that Hidell is simply an altered “Fidel” which again takes an understanding of the English language. How could someone who claimed to have no knowledge of the English language make the association between Hidell and Fidel?
Another piece of evidence can be found in Commission Document (CD) 637. It is a report on Mrs. Ilse Craig who was married to John Craig who worked at Bell Helicopter with Michael Paine. She stated that she had known the Paines for four years. Here is what she said about this issue.
Quote on
She said that she knew that MARINA OSWALD lived with MRS. PAINE for a short period of time and that she met MRS. OSWALD at MRS. PAINE’s home. She added, however, that she had very limited conversation with MRS. OSWALD since MRS. OSWALD is unable to speak English fluently. (CD 637, p. 5)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11036&search=J._Hale+McMenamin+lillie+cline+march+14%2C+1964#relPageId=6&tab=page
Quote off
This shows that Marina Oswald could speak English, but not fluently. This is different from what she claimed and the WC had us believe.
The purpose of this post was to look at the claim that Marina Oswald could not speak or understand English and I think that we see there is doubt about that. Even the WC had doubts as they asked quite a few witnesses about this during their testimonies.
LHO acted like he couldn’t speak or understand Russian when he defected, so why wouldn’t Marina use the same trick? I also found it interesting that Marguerite Oswald, LHO’s mother, felt that both Marina and Ruth Paine were involved in making her son appear guilty. She was years ahead of most researchers on this.
Again, I think there is more than a reasonable doubt regarding Marina’s ability with the English language, thus, the official proclamation has to be sunk.
upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5a/Marina_Oswald.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot and killed President John F. Kennedy (JFK) on November 22, 1963, all by himself. They further claimed that he shot and killed Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit (JDT) as well as took a shot at retired General Edwin A. Walker (EAW).
As we have seen repeatedly in this series the evidence presented in the twenty-six volumes (Commission Exhibits – CE) and the Commission Documents (CD) simply do not support the claims made in the WC Report (WCR).
This post will look at another claim made by the WC regarding Marina Oswald’s ability to understand and speak the English language.
******************************************
Marina Oswald repeatedly claimed to know very little English as she was asked about this in her testimony before the WC.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you have any formal aid or teaching of English by anyone?
Mrs. OSWALD. I had no formal instructions in it, but a Russian acquaintance, Mr. Bouhe, wrote down some Russian phrases, and I would try to translate them into English.
Mr. RANKIN. Now, since you have been living with the Martins, I assume you haven't had any Russian friends to try to translate English for you, is that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. If you do not count Mr. Gopadze and the FBI interpreter, I have not been in contact with any Russians.
Mr. RANKIN. And there were considerable periods during the time you have been living with the Martins when neither Mr. Gopadze or the FBI agent or translator were present, is that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. So have you been able to learn a little more English while you have been with the Martins than you had before, because of that experience?
Mrs. OSWALD. Only a little, I think.
At least it is very useful for me to live with an American family who do not speak Russian.
Mr. RANKIN. That has helped you to learn some English, more than when you were living with Mrs. Paine, who could speak Russian to you. I take it.
Mrs. OSWALD. Of course.
We see from this exchange that Marina only claimed to know a very little amount of English. This is further confirmed by the fact that she had translators provided to her after the assassination and during the WC testimony. On the day of the assassination Ilya Mamantov was called in to translate for her on November 22.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Mamantov, the Commission desires to inquire of you because of your acquaintance with the De Mohrenschildts, and your work with the Dallas City Police on November 22 and 23.
Mr. MAMANTOV. The 22d.
Mr. JENNER. The 22d only, and you translated for Marina Oswald in that connection?
Mr. MAMANTOV. Right.
We also know that she had other translators as well. She, and the WC, used this to portray her as a person who was isolated in a foreign country without even understanding the language. But is this a correct assessment of the situation? This is really important because the lack of understanding English was a key reason for why she seemed so confused, and why she feared deportation supposedly.
Her business manager, James Martin said that she understood English in his WC testimony.
Mr. RANKIN. Did she understand English enough to understand what you were talking about?
Mr. MARTIN. Yes.
Mr. REDLICH. I would like to call the attention of the Commission to the date which is Sunday, December 15. You say as of Sunday, December 15, which is a little over 3 weeks after she came to live with you, Mrs. Oswald knew English well enough to be able to read this and understand it?
Mr. MARTIN. Not to read it legibly, I mean not to understand every word of it but she understood the biggest part of the article. I was quite amazed at how much she could read. She can't read writing or says she can't, but she can read printing or typing.
This testimony seems to show that Marina could read English and understand it to a point. FBI Agent Charles Brown would tell the Church Committee (CC) in 1975 that he and Special Agent James Hosty thought she understood English a good bit better than she let on.
Quote on
Shortly after the assassination of President KENNEDY on November 22, 1963, I participated in an interview with MARINA OSWALD at the Inn of Six Flags, Arlington, Texas, along with Special Agent JIM HOSTY, and an interpreter from the U.S. Secret Service, whose name I do not recall. During the course of this interview, MARINA spoke very little and we had the impression that she understood English much better than she indicated but was not communicating with us on that evening... (NARA Record Number: 124-10371-10184; HSCA Administrative Folder, p. 54)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9905#relPageId=39
Quote off
Agents Brown and Hosty were trained agents, so their opinion carry weight. It makes sense that Marina would have been taught English if she was some kind of operative herself as many researchers have believed over the years.
During her time on the witness stand at the Clay Shaw trial she was again asked about whether or not she understood English.
Q: Here in New Orleans. I see. And that was while you and he were living here together, is that right?
A: Yes, but I don't know if it was political speech or what, because at that time I didn't speak English and didn't understand.
Q: You say at that time you did not speak any English?
A: No, sir.
And this variegated testimony from the House Select Committee On Assassinations (HSCA) testimony again shows that according to her she didn’t speak or understand English at the time of the assassination.
Mr. McDONALD. Did you ever study English in the Soviet Union?
Mrs. PORTER. Me? No.
Mr. PREYER. Do you recall whether he called anyone to say he was back in the United States?
Mrs. PORTER. Well, I did not speak English at the time, so if he used the phone, if somebody called for somebody, I wouldn't know about that, unless he told me.
Mr. McDONALD. You could not speak English at the time?
Mrs. PORTER. No.
Mr. PREYER - First, Mrs. Porter, I understand that at the time you testified before the Warren Commission, you could not speak or understand English very well.
Mrs. PORTER – That is correct.
Mr. PREYER - You did not use it in the course of your everyday activities, the English language.
Mrs. PORTER - I testified before Warren Commission more than once, and they always provide interpreter for me.
Mr. PREYER - So that you did need a translator when you testified before the Warren Commission.
Mrs. PORTER – That is correct.
This testimony before the HSCA confirms that she was not able to communicate in English according to her. So why was she trying to call LHO by telephone then?
Q: How did you attempt to contact him?
A: He left a telephone number where he could be reached, and I called by this number and asked for him, but landlady or whoever answered the phone said nobody by this name lived there.
How could she understand what the person said if she couldn’t understand English? How could she explain what she wanted if she did not speak English? This would be impossible of course. The WC must have had some doubts as they asked quite a few witnesses about this issue.
Probably the best person to ask since LHO was dead was his mother Marguerite since she spent time in a hotel with her following the assassination. Let’s examine her testimony regarding this issue.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you talk to Marina, and did she speak English to you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, she spoke English, Mr. Rankin. Like she would say--and we used the dictionary when she didn't understand.
She would say--I would say, "Marina, you now nurse your baby."
"Yes, Mama. The time."
Or "No time."
With motions--"no time, Mama."
She spoke English.
Mr. RANKIN. What I would like to find out for the Commission, if we can, in regard to speaking English, did you think she was able to talk English fluently, or did you think she was in the process of learning it?
Mrs. OSWALD. She was in the process of learning. But she understood more than she could talk. And I have a letter from Lee stating that Marina also speaks and understands French, that she had learned at grammar school.
Mr. RANKIN. Why does that show she was involved in any conspiracy?
Mrs. OSWALD. Because I am going to try to show there is discrepancies all along. She was not supposed to speak English. I testified that I, myself, questioned her for an FBI agent. I acted as interpreter. So Marina did know English and understand English. So that is a question.
Mr. RANKIN. I thought you said she spoke broken English.
Mrs. OSWALD. Broken English. But she is not supposed to speak English at all, until now that she has learned English. That has been publicized over and over.
Mr. RANKIN. And you think she could understand English fluently?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, sir. I also told you when she lived with me that month in my home, how we conversed and talked. And yet the impression is that Marina came here and didn't speak English at all.
This is the key part as the American people were told that Marina Oswald couldn’t speak any English and clearly she could. Further proof of this comes from the supposed destruction of a backyard photograph right after the assassination. Something doesn’t add up here.
Mr. RANKIN. And after the quarrel, did you leave there?
Mrs. OSWALD. I went to my room. But then I showed Lee's mother the photograph, where he is photographed with a rifle, and told her he had shot at Walker and it appeared he might have been shooting at the President. She said that I should hide that photograph and not show it to anyone.
On the next day I destroyed one photograph which I had. I think I had two small ones. When we were in the hotel I burned it.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you say anything to her about the destruction of the photographs when she suggested that?
Mrs. OSWALD. She saw it, while I was destroying them.
How could Marina say anything to Marguerite when she supposedly didn’t speak English? This sounds like a conversation and that would be impossible since Marguerite didn’t speak Russian and Marina didn’t speak English supposedly. Why was this not pointed out by the WC?
Also, this would show that another backyard photograph had existed at the very least (I say this as based on Marina’s testimony she could have destroyed two photographs). How many photographs really existed?
I think Marina Oswald tipped her hand as she said this in her testimony.
Mr. RANKIN. Have you ever heard that he used the fictitious name Hidell?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. When did you first learn that he used such a name?
Mrs. OSWALD. In New Orleans.
Mr. RANKIN. How did you learn that?
Mrs. OSWALD. When he was interviewed by some anti-Cubans, he used this name and spoke of an organization. I knew there was no such organization. And I know that Hidell is merely an altered Fidel, and I laughed at such foolishness. My imagination didn't work that way.
The interview was conducted in English, so how could she know what was being said? By the way, as we have seen before in this series the name “Hidell” was never mentioned during the radio interview. But she also offers up the notion that Hidell is simply an altered “Fidel” which again takes an understanding of the English language. How could someone who claimed to have no knowledge of the English language make the association between Hidell and Fidel?
Another piece of evidence can be found in Commission Document (CD) 637. It is a report on Mrs. Ilse Craig who was married to John Craig who worked at Bell Helicopter with Michael Paine. She stated that she had known the Paines for four years. Here is what she said about this issue.
Quote on
She said that she knew that MARINA OSWALD lived with MRS. PAINE for a short period of time and that she met MRS. OSWALD at MRS. PAINE’s home. She added, however, that she had very limited conversation with MRS. OSWALD since MRS. OSWALD is unable to speak English fluently. (CD 637, p. 5)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11036&search=J._Hale+McMenamin+lillie+cline+march+14%2C+1964#relPageId=6&tab=page
Quote off
This shows that Marina Oswald could speak English, but not fluently. This is different from what she claimed and the WC had us believe.
The purpose of this post was to look at the claim that Marina Oswald could not speak or understand English and I think that we see there is doubt about that. Even the WC had doubts as they asked quite a few witnesses about this during their testimonies.
LHO acted like he couldn’t speak or understand Russian when he defected, so why wouldn’t Marina use the same trick? I also found it interesting that Marguerite Oswald, LHO’s mother, felt that both Marina and Ruth Paine were involved in making her son appear guilty. She was years ahead of most researchers on this.
Again, I think there is more than a reasonable doubt regarding Marina’s ability with the English language, thus, the official proclamation has to be sunk.