Post by Rob Caprio on Feb 20, 2021 12:23:33 GMT -5
All portions ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
Notice To Lurkers:
Ben will deny these very obvious lies by claiming he has given evidence already (a favorite trick of the LNer clan) or that he has quoted me saying something, but do NOT fall for it. Demand him to provide this evidence to you. Demand that he provides my quote IN context as he has a habit of EDITING other peoples' words and ignoring clarifications even when they are made BEFORE he responded.
Ben will resort to insults and false accusations like all LNers do so take note of how often he does this.
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Let's start to add in Ben's OWN notice as he does EXACTLY what he warns you folks LNers will do!
“Important Note for Lurkers - there are many trolls on this forum who's only purpose is to obstruct debate, deny the evidence, and attempt to change message threads from discussing the evidence, to personal insults and attacks.” (Ben Holmes’s Refrain on his “series” posts.)
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Walt’s claim:
Walt Cakebread never proved his claim that the weapon found on the roof was a Dallas Police Department (DPD) shotgun.
Walt has made his OPINION known on this issue (the Mentesana film/photo) and he claims the weapon found on the roof was a DPD shotgun!
He said this quite awhile ago!
“One of the many ludicrous "debunkings" at Mcadams website is a claim by Anthony Marsh that he sent a letter to Robert Groden, advising him that he was wrong in claiming that the apparent rifle shown in the Mentesana film, which Groden suggested, was found in the TSBD, was actually a shotgun, issued by the DPD. Marsh's only justification for his claim was his opinion that the weapon looked too large to be a rifle and so, must have been a shotgun. Of course, marsh offered no dimensions or anything else to back up his subjective opinion.
Of course, if we believe the LNT team, the DPD cops did things that were a lot stupider than that:-)” (Robert Harris)
“Bob If you don't know much about firearms (and apparently you don't) then you should just keep you opinon (sic) to yourself. The Mentesanta photo doesn't prove anything, except that fools will believe anything. I am familar (sic) with firearms, and I wouldn't bet a saw buck that the weapon seen in the photo is a rifle, but I believe it is a shotgun.
That's not based on the LENGTH of the weapon. Rifles and shotguns can be the same length, and depending on the model a rtfle (sic) might be longer than a shotgun or vice versa. The DIAMETER of the barrel of the weapon in the Mentesanta photo is the dimension that makes it appear to be a standard 12 gauge shotgun.
By claiming that it could be a rifle you only stir up ill conceived theories. Theories that should have been discarded 40 years ago.” (Walt—9/9/06)
Walt has all kind of support for this claim including Tony Marsh!
“Wrong. Did you actually read the letter I sent to Groden? No, of course not. I rest my case. You simply don't know what the Hell you are talking about. Here is what I said in this newsgroup on Aug 26,
2004: No, the barrel is too big. And you can see the magazine cap. **The profile matches a Remington 780 pump shotgun**, one of the types that other photos show some DPD officers carrying.” (Tony Marsh)
IF you are a CTer and Tony agrees with you watch out as he is really a LNer! Ben Holmes and Walt agreed on him being one in December too!
“An excellent way to discredit CT'ers is to pretend to be one - and yet, make comments that are easily seen to be stupid and foolish. Tony Marsh was a master of this... I think few really believe him to be a legitimate CT'er nowadays. Robsie is merely the newest incarnation...“ (Ben Holmes—12/13/09)
Guess who they sided with when I said the Mentesana film (including the parts we can NOT see anymore) showed a rifle being brought down from the roof according to Jim Garrison?
That's right, they sided with Tony as they called me a liar for saying it was a rifle based on Jim Garrison's words in his book "On The Trail Of The Assassins". He would call me a liar for quoting Jim Garrison's words!
“I've viewed the film, Rob - and what you're describing DOES NOT EXIST. Never did. You're a liar.” (Ben Holmes)
Yet, here are Jim Garrison's words!
Quote on
The rifle encountered was triumphantly brought down from the depository by Dallas police officers a few minutes after 1:00 P.M. Its discovery was recorded on film by a cameraman named Mentesana and made available commercially in the Dallas Cinema Associates film of the assassination. In the film, the rifle is being held aloft by a policeman, and other officers and citizens are crowded around to stare at this nearly historic weapon. Beneath the filmed scene is the legend "The Assassin's Rifle." Unlike the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle subsequently produced as Lee Oswald's murder weapon, "The Assassin's Rifle" has no telescopic sight on it. This rifle has never been publicly seen since.
Quote off
So I asked him if he could support his claim that the section that Garrison saw never existed, and of course he did what he always does, dump the responsibility for his claim ONTO me.
“Well, can you prove it (full version of Mentesana film Garrison claimed to view) NEVER existed?” (Robert)
“Not even going to try. You make the assertion, YOU PROVE IT!” (Ben Holmes) (So much for having to prove the OBVERSE is true, huh?)
Didn't he say it NEVER EXISTED? Hmmm.
So I kept up the pressure on him to support his claim, and then he did what he always does--he played "word games!"
“NO, you made the assertion the film NEVER EXISTED, NOT ME! Ben lies so much and so often he can't keep up. I asked for proof about your assertion that the film Garrison said he saw NEVER EXISTED, and this guy dumps it on me. What a liar!! Does he get paid by the lie?
Can you prove Jim Garrison lied?” (Robert)
“He didn't. But neither did he make any mention of the rifle being held over their heads.” (Ben Holmes)
See, he did say the rifle was held "aloft" and I said "over their heads", and instead of dealing with the FACT THAT ALOFT MEANS OVER THEIR HEADS he played the game of "no heads were mentioned!"
Does a honest person do this? NO is the correct answer. So even though we established that Jim Garrison said this in his book, it was still MY FAULT according to Ben!
“I quoted from his book "On the Trail of the Assassins", it is available on the web as well. You were just caught in a lie, and shown to be lacking in any knowledge of this case.” (Robert)
“I'm calling *YOU* a liar, Rob.” (Ben Holmes)
Meanwhile, Walt's lying claim that agrees with the LNer camp went unchallenged by Ben!
Despite Ben calling Tony a LNer for years he found supporting him in this issue a breeze! NO he would "straddle the fence" as he ALWAYS does with this comment, but his actions spoke much louder as he NEVER called out Walt and demanded him to support his claim! The ONLY attacks came my way!
“Actually, I've not specified. I've simply stated that it could be *EITHER* a shotgun or a rifle based only on the photo on page 66.” (Ben Holmes)
Why play games instead of saying what you believe? Why ONLY attack me and NOT Walt when he said it could be a rifle also?
This shows a long pattern of attacking anyone (USUALLY A CTER) who does NOT support the lies he and Walt tell for the benefit of the Warren Commission (WC).
Notice To Lurkers:
Ben will deny these very obvious lies by claiming he has given evidence already (a favorite trick of the LNer clan) or that he has quoted me saying something, but do NOT fall for it. Demand him to provide this evidence to you. Demand that he provides my quote IN context as he has a habit of EDITING other peoples' words and ignoring clarifications even when they are made BEFORE he responded.
Ben will resort to insults and false accusations like all LNers do so take note of how often he does this.
*******************************************************************
Let's start to add in Ben's OWN notice as he does EXACTLY what he warns you folks LNers will do!
“Important Note for Lurkers - there are many trolls on this forum who's only purpose is to obstruct debate, deny the evidence, and attempt to change message threads from discussing the evidence, to personal insults and attacks.” (Ben Holmes’s Refrain on his “series” posts.)
******************************************************************
Walt’s claim:
Walt Cakebread never proved his claim that the weapon found on the roof was a Dallas Police Department (DPD) shotgun.
Walt has made his OPINION known on this issue (the Mentesana film/photo) and he claims the weapon found on the roof was a DPD shotgun!
He said this quite awhile ago!
“One of the many ludicrous "debunkings" at Mcadams website is a claim by Anthony Marsh that he sent a letter to Robert Groden, advising him that he was wrong in claiming that the apparent rifle shown in the Mentesana film, which Groden suggested, was found in the TSBD, was actually a shotgun, issued by the DPD. Marsh's only justification for his claim was his opinion that the weapon looked too large to be a rifle and so, must have been a shotgun. Of course, marsh offered no dimensions or anything else to back up his subjective opinion.
Of course, if we believe the LNT team, the DPD cops did things that were a lot stupider than that:-)” (Robert Harris)
“Bob If you don't know much about firearms (and apparently you don't) then you should just keep you opinon (sic) to yourself. The Mentesanta photo doesn't prove anything, except that fools will believe anything. I am familar (sic) with firearms, and I wouldn't bet a saw buck that the weapon seen in the photo is a rifle, but I believe it is a shotgun.
That's not based on the LENGTH of the weapon. Rifles and shotguns can be the same length, and depending on the model a rtfle (sic) might be longer than a shotgun or vice versa. The DIAMETER of the barrel of the weapon in the Mentesanta photo is the dimension that makes it appear to be a standard 12 gauge shotgun.
By claiming that it could be a rifle you only stir up ill conceived theories. Theories that should have been discarded 40 years ago.” (Walt—9/9/06)
Walt has all kind of support for this claim including Tony Marsh!
“Wrong. Did you actually read the letter I sent to Groden? No, of course not. I rest my case. You simply don't know what the Hell you are talking about. Here is what I said in this newsgroup on Aug 26,
2004: No, the barrel is too big. And you can see the magazine cap. **The profile matches a Remington 780 pump shotgun**, one of the types that other photos show some DPD officers carrying.” (Tony Marsh)
IF you are a CTer and Tony agrees with you watch out as he is really a LNer! Ben Holmes and Walt agreed on him being one in December too!
“An excellent way to discredit CT'ers is to pretend to be one - and yet, make comments that are easily seen to be stupid and foolish. Tony Marsh was a master of this... I think few really believe him to be a legitimate CT'er nowadays. Robsie is merely the newest incarnation...“ (Ben Holmes—12/13/09)
Guess who they sided with when I said the Mentesana film (including the parts we can NOT see anymore) showed a rifle being brought down from the roof according to Jim Garrison?
That's right, they sided with Tony as they called me a liar for saying it was a rifle based on Jim Garrison's words in his book "On The Trail Of The Assassins". He would call me a liar for quoting Jim Garrison's words!
“I've viewed the film, Rob - and what you're describing DOES NOT EXIST. Never did. You're a liar.” (Ben Holmes)
Yet, here are Jim Garrison's words!
Quote on
The rifle encountered was triumphantly brought down from the depository by Dallas police officers a few minutes after 1:00 P.M. Its discovery was recorded on film by a cameraman named Mentesana and made available commercially in the Dallas Cinema Associates film of the assassination. In the film, the rifle is being held aloft by a policeman, and other officers and citizens are crowded around to stare at this nearly historic weapon. Beneath the filmed scene is the legend "The Assassin's Rifle." Unlike the Mannlicher-Carcano rifle subsequently produced as Lee Oswald's murder weapon, "The Assassin's Rifle" has no telescopic sight on it. This rifle has never been publicly seen since.
Quote off
So I asked him if he could support his claim that the section that Garrison saw never existed, and of course he did what he always does, dump the responsibility for his claim ONTO me.
“Well, can you prove it (full version of Mentesana film Garrison claimed to view) NEVER existed?” (Robert)
“Not even going to try. You make the assertion, YOU PROVE IT!” (Ben Holmes) (So much for having to prove the OBVERSE is true, huh?)
Didn't he say it NEVER EXISTED? Hmmm.
So I kept up the pressure on him to support his claim, and then he did what he always does--he played "word games!"
“NO, you made the assertion the film NEVER EXISTED, NOT ME! Ben lies so much and so often he can't keep up. I asked for proof about your assertion that the film Garrison said he saw NEVER EXISTED, and this guy dumps it on me. What a liar!! Does he get paid by the lie?
Can you prove Jim Garrison lied?” (Robert)
“He didn't. But neither did he make any mention of the rifle being held over their heads.” (Ben Holmes)
See, he did say the rifle was held "aloft" and I said "over their heads", and instead of dealing with the FACT THAT ALOFT MEANS OVER THEIR HEADS he played the game of "no heads were mentioned!"
Does a honest person do this? NO is the correct answer. So even though we established that Jim Garrison said this in his book, it was still MY FAULT according to Ben!
“I quoted from his book "On the Trail of the Assassins", it is available on the web as well. You were just caught in a lie, and shown to be lacking in any knowledge of this case.” (Robert)
“I'm calling *YOU* a liar, Rob.” (Ben Holmes)
Meanwhile, Walt's lying claim that agrees with the LNer camp went unchallenged by Ben!
Despite Ben calling Tony a LNer for years he found supporting him in this issue a breeze! NO he would "straddle the fence" as he ALWAYS does with this comment, but his actions spoke much louder as he NEVER called out Walt and demanded him to support his claim! The ONLY attacks came my way!
“Actually, I've not specified. I've simply stated that it could be *EITHER* a shotgun or a rifle based only on the photo on page 66.” (Ben Holmes)
Why play games instead of saying what you believe? Why ONLY attack me and NOT Walt when he said it could be a rifle also?
This shows a long pattern of attacking anyone (USUALLY A CTER) who does NOT support the lies he and Walt tell for the benefit of the Warren Commission (WC).