Post by Rob Caprio on Apr 26, 2021 13:14:57 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
4.bp.blogspot.com/-3p5H5iPHlTc/UH8-38xSBBI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/siY65_Pb2VQ/s640/marina+does+not+remermber+walker+note.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot at General Edwin Walker on the night of April 10, 1963. We have seen in numerous posts that this is just not supported by the evidence at all. In fact, the ONLY witness to the shooting, Walter Kirk Coleman, said he saw TWO men fleeing the scene and meeting a third man who was at an automobile.
There was not much evidence in this part of the case (and what we do have does NOT support the WC’s conclusion at all) so the WC had to rest a lot of its case on an alleged note LHO supposedly wrote to Marina before he allegedly set out to shoot Walker. This post will look at this particular piece of evidence and see what it shows us.
***********************************
The WC said this in their Report (WCR) about the shooting of General Walker.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0214b.gif
The Commission has concluded that on April 10, 1963, Oswald shot at Maj. Gen. Edwin A. Walker (Resigned, U.S. Army), demonstrating once again his propensity to act dramatically, and, in this case violently, in furtherance of his beliefs…As indicated in chapter IV, Oswald had been planning his attack on General Walker for at least 1 and perhaps as much as 2 months. (WCR, p. 404)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0214b.htm
Quote off
What they used to conclude this with is beyond me as there is NO evidence showing LHO ever fired at General Walker. Even General Walker did NOT think he did this.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never even heard of Oswald?
General WALKER. Only with respect to what we have passed over with regard to what we have said about Duff, and we have heard said about Oswald. I have no information of Oswald's name ever being mentioned in my house, and I had never heard of the name with regard to the individual we are referring to at any time since I have been in Dallas or any other time.
Mr. LIEBELER. In point of fact, it would be correct to state that, to your knowledge, you never saw or heard of Lee Harvey Oswald at any time prior to the time that his name was announced after the assassination on November 22, 1963?
General WALKER. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had no connection of any sort whatsoever with him prior to that time?
General WALKER. None at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is when you gave him this information about Oswald having attacked you?
General WALKER. I didn't give him all the information--I think the portion you are referring to, I didn't give him, because I had no way of knowing that Oswald attacked me. I still don't. And I am not very prone to say in fact he did. In fact, I have always claimed he did not, until we can get into the case or somebody tells us differently that he did.
Mr. LIEBELER. You didn't have the faintest idea that Oswald had taken a shot at you and you didn't make a statement to that effect to the newspaper?
General WALKER. No; I didn't know.
He never thought LHO was involved in the shooting that occurred on April 10, 1963. That much is clear from his testimony and he had paid to have an investigation done into the shooting as well. Since the alleged bullet fired at Walker, Commission Exhibit (CE) 573 could NOT be tied to the shooting via a chain of custody it fell to the claims of Marina Oswald and an alleged note LHO wrote prior to the time the shooting of Walker took place.
If we go to CE 1 we will see this note.
CE 1: www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pages/WH_Vol16_0013a.jpg
The note says the following:
Quote on
www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo2/jfk4/4p350f510a.jpg
www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo2/jfk4/4p351f510b.jpg
1. This is the key to the mailbox which is located in the main post office in the city on Ervay Street. This is the same street where the drugstore, in which you always waited is located. You will find the mailbox in the post office which is located 4 blocks from the drugstore on that street. I paid for the box last month so don’t worry about it.
2. Send the information to what has happened to me to the Embassy and include newspaper clippings (should there be anything about me in the newspapers). I believe that the Embassy will come quickly to your assistance on learning everything.
3. I paid the house rent on the 2d so don’t worry about it.
4. Recently I also paid for water and gas.
5. The money for work will possibly be coming. The money will be sent to our post office box. Go to the bank and cash the check.
Quote off
This note was used as evidence by the WC in showing LHO shot at General Walker despite it NOT mentioning him at all! Even the WC admitted this via Marina’s testimony.
Mr. RANKIN. The note doesn't say anything about Walker, does it?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him if that is what he meant by the note?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, because as soon as he came home I showed him the note and asked him "What is the meaning of this?"
Mr. RANKIN. And that is when he gave you the explanation about the Walker shooting?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
So we see the ONLY connection we have to the Walker shooting is Marina’s word. Also, as I have asked before if LHO was prone to writing notes before shooting at someone, why did he NOT write such a note before he allegedly shot at President John F. Kennedy (JFK)?
Researchers have asked over the years why the Embassy (presumably the Soviet one) in question would care that LHO shot at a right-wing General like Walker at all.
Mr. RANKIN. In that note you remember that there was a reference to an embassy--it didn't say which embassy. Do you know what embassy your husband was referring to?
Mrs. OSWALD. He had in mind the Soviet Embassy.
There were NO mentions of LHO in the newspapers as NO one, including the Dallas Police Department (DPD), ever associated LHO to this shooting. Furthermore, since this note does NOT mention his intention to shoot at Walker how would Marina know what to look for in the newspapers?
Why would paying the rent for a month and paying the water and gas for a month make Marina feel better? What would she do after this if LHO was in jail?
This note is ridiculous IMO and proves nothing in regards to the WC’s claims. Another odd thing is the fact LHO had both Walker’s name and TELEPHONE number in his notebook. This is what the WC said about this in their “Rumors and Speculation” section (Appendix XII).
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0344a.gif
Speculation.—Oswald and General Walker were probably acquainted with each other since Oswald’s notebook contained Walker’s name and telephone number.
Commission finding.—Although Oswald’s notebook CONTAINED Walker’s name and telephone number there was no evidence that the two knew each other. It is probable that this information was inserted at the time that Oswald was planning his attack on Walker. General Walker stated that he did NOT know of Oswald before the assassination. (WCR, p. 663) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0344a.htm
Quote off
Why would LHO have Walker’s telephone number and name in his notebook IF he did NOT know Walker? How many names can one person have in their notebook without them meaning anything? The WC said the name and number was “inserted at the time that Oswald was planning his attack on Walker”, but is it required to know the telephone number of someone you are planning to shoot?
We see basically the same language from the FBI in CE 2586 (a rebuttal to Thomas Buchanan’s book Who Killed Kennedy?) in regard to this issue.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/pages/WC_Vol25_0446b.gif
32. Claim: It can be inferred from the fact that General Walker’s name and telephone number were in Oswald’s notebook that Oswald and General Walker were known to each other. Page 154.
Investigation: Our investigation has developed no indication that Oswald and General Walker were known to each other. General Walker has been publicly quoted as saying he did not know anything about Oswald until Oswald was arrested
for the assassination of the President. (CE 2586, p. 862)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_0446b.htm
Quote off
Again, why is a telephone number necessary for planning to attack someone? Was LHO going to call first to make sure he was home? Can any WC defender provide a reasonable explanation for this to me?
The final piece for the note issue is how and when it was discovered. The note was found allegedly in a book Ruth Paine had sent to Marina after the assassination. Ruth Paine said this before the WC.
Mrs. PAINE - Well, you have not yet asked me if I had seen anything of a note purported to be written by Lee at the time of the attempt on Walker. And I might just recount for you that, if it is of any importance.
Mr. JENNER - Yes; I wish you would--how that occurred. Tell me all you know about it--all you knew about it up to and including November 22.
Mrs. PAINE - I knew absolutely nothing about it up to and including November 22.
A week or two weeks later she was contacted by the Secret Service (SS) as they said they found a note in a book she had given back to Marina recently.
Mr. JENNER - Is there any explanation or anything that you feel you ought to say or wish to say about that incident?
Mrs. PAINE - Well, just that I was shown a portion of a note by two Secret Service men.
Mr. JENNER - This was after November 22?
Mrs. PAINE - It certainly was. Perhaps a week later. I had sent Marina one of these small collections of letters, such as I have described, that includes notes to her and donations, and left such with the Irving police. And on one occasion left also a couple of books which were hers. I referred to the fact that she read to me from a child care book…I believe it was probably the next day I got a call from the Secret Service saying something important had come up in this case, could they come out and see me. I said yes, of course. They arrived. Mr. Gopadze, of the Secret Service, who was acting as translator, and I think the other man's name was Patterson, and he spoke English only--Mr. Gopadze showed me a piece of paper with writing on it, a small piece of paper such as might come from a telephone note pad. He asked me not to read it through carefully, but simply to look at it enough to tell whether I could identify the handwriting and whether I had ever seen it before. I said I could not identify the handwriting. I observed that it was written in Russian, that the second word was a transliteration from the English word--that it said "This key"--using the word "key" rather than the Russian word--and went on to say it was for a post office box. And that is as far as I read. And Mr. Gopadze indicated that it was his impression that I had sent this note to Marina. And this surprised me. And I said----
Mr. JENNER - That is a masterpiece of understatement, isn't it?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; it certainly is. It astounded me. I said that---I repeated that I had not seen it and did not know how I might possibly have sent this to Marina Oswald. I asked if he thought the note was current, and he did not say.
We went on for some time with Mr. Gopadze--this in Russian--saying that "Mrs. Paine, it would be well for you to be absolutely frank and tell us exactly what happened" and my saying in turn to Mr. Gopadze, "I am. What more can I do than what I have said." And finally we went over to English and included Mr. Patterson in the conversation, and he volunteered this note had been in a book. Then I realized what must have happened is that I did send Marina Oswald a book, and described my having sent this to this Irving police and the Secret Service. And that seemed to clear up the mystery for all of us. And they left.
The problem with this discovery is the fact Ruth Paine had said earlier in her testimony that police had already “leafed through the books” in her house.
Mr. McCLOY - Yes; the door was locked, that is what I gather. Do you know what they took on this occasion, or did they tell you what they were coming for?
Mrs. PAINE - No; I do not. Before I left they were leafing through books to see if anything fell out but that is all I saw.
So this begs the question, if the DPD had already leafed through all the books in her house to see “if anything fell out”, how did this note escape their attention? Furthermore, why was Ruth not asked what kind of books she gave back to Marina? This is important as Marina said this before the WC.
Mr. RANKIN. What did you do with the note that he had left for you after you talked about it and said you were going to keep it?
Mrs. OSWALD. I had it among my things in a cookbook. But I have two--I don't remember in which.
Yet, the ONLY book Ruth Paine mentioned was a child care book by Dr. Spock.
Mrs. PAINE: …I referred to the fact that she read to me from a child care book. One of these was a book from which she had been recently reading to me, and she used it much as I had used Benjamin Spock's "Baby and Child Care" when my babies were small--that is constant daily reference. And I thought she would want to have it with her.
What happened to the cookbooks? Anyway, this whole discovery was done while Marina was under the protection of the SS so it is suspect in my mind. The bottom line however is this note never mentions Walker so to claim it is for that is just a empty claim that cannot be supported. Also, why did LHO NOT repeat this process for his plans with JFK?
4.bp.blogspot.com/-3p5H5iPHlTc/UH8-38xSBBI/AAAAAAAAAJ8/siY65_Pb2VQ/s640/marina+does+not+remermber+walker+note.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot at General Edwin Walker on the night of April 10, 1963. We have seen in numerous posts that this is just not supported by the evidence at all. In fact, the ONLY witness to the shooting, Walter Kirk Coleman, said he saw TWO men fleeing the scene and meeting a third man who was at an automobile.
There was not much evidence in this part of the case (and what we do have does NOT support the WC’s conclusion at all) so the WC had to rest a lot of its case on an alleged note LHO supposedly wrote to Marina before he allegedly set out to shoot Walker. This post will look at this particular piece of evidence and see what it shows us.
***********************************
The WC said this in their Report (WCR) about the shooting of General Walker.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0214b.gif
The Commission has concluded that on April 10, 1963, Oswald shot at Maj. Gen. Edwin A. Walker (Resigned, U.S. Army), demonstrating once again his propensity to act dramatically, and, in this case violently, in furtherance of his beliefs…As indicated in chapter IV, Oswald had been planning his attack on General Walker for at least 1 and perhaps as much as 2 months. (WCR, p. 404)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0214b.htm
Quote off
What they used to conclude this with is beyond me as there is NO evidence showing LHO ever fired at General Walker. Even General Walker did NOT think he did this.
Mr. LIEBELER. You never even heard of Oswald?
General WALKER. Only with respect to what we have passed over with regard to what we have said about Duff, and we have heard said about Oswald. I have no information of Oswald's name ever being mentioned in my house, and I had never heard of the name with regard to the individual we are referring to at any time since I have been in Dallas or any other time.
Mr. LIEBELER. In point of fact, it would be correct to state that, to your knowledge, you never saw or heard of Lee Harvey Oswald at any time prior to the time that his name was announced after the assassination on November 22, 1963?
General WALKER. That is correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had no connection of any sort whatsoever with him prior to that time?
General WALKER. None at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is when you gave him this information about Oswald having attacked you?
General WALKER. I didn't give him all the information--I think the portion you are referring to, I didn't give him, because I had no way of knowing that Oswald attacked me. I still don't. And I am not very prone to say in fact he did. In fact, I have always claimed he did not, until we can get into the case or somebody tells us differently that he did.
Mr. LIEBELER. You didn't have the faintest idea that Oswald had taken a shot at you and you didn't make a statement to that effect to the newspaper?
General WALKER. No; I didn't know.
He never thought LHO was involved in the shooting that occurred on April 10, 1963. That much is clear from his testimony and he had paid to have an investigation done into the shooting as well. Since the alleged bullet fired at Walker, Commission Exhibit (CE) 573 could NOT be tied to the shooting via a chain of custody it fell to the claims of Marina Oswald and an alleged note LHO wrote prior to the time the shooting of Walker took place.
If we go to CE 1 we will see this note.
CE 1: www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh16/pages/WH_Vol16_0013a.jpg
The note says the following:
Quote on
www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo2/jfk4/4p350f510a.jpg
www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/jfkinfo2/jfk4/4p351f510b.jpg
1. This is the key to the mailbox which is located in the main post office in the city on Ervay Street. This is the same street where the drugstore, in which you always waited is located. You will find the mailbox in the post office which is located 4 blocks from the drugstore on that street. I paid for the box last month so don’t worry about it.
2. Send the information to what has happened to me to the Embassy and include newspaper clippings (should there be anything about me in the newspapers). I believe that the Embassy will come quickly to your assistance on learning everything.
3. I paid the house rent on the 2d so don’t worry about it.
4. Recently I also paid for water and gas.
5. The money for work will possibly be coming. The money will be sent to our post office box. Go to the bank and cash the check.
Quote off
This note was used as evidence by the WC in showing LHO shot at General Walker despite it NOT mentioning him at all! Even the WC admitted this via Marina’s testimony.
Mr. RANKIN. The note doesn't say anything about Walker, does it?
Mrs. OSWALD. No.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ask him if that is what he meant by the note?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, because as soon as he came home I showed him the note and asked him "What is the meaning of this?"
Mr. RANKIN. And that is when he gave you the explanation about the Walker shooting?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
So we see the ONLY connection we have to the Walker shooting is Marina’s word. Also, as I have asked before if LHO was prone to writing notes before shooting at someone, why did he NOT write such a note before he allegedly shot at President John F. Kennedy (JFK)?
Researchers have asked over the years why the Embassy (presumably the Soviet one) in question would care that LHO shot at a right-wing General like Walker at all.
Mr. RANKIN. In that note you remember that there was a reference to an embassy--it didn't say which embassy. Do you know what embassy your husband was referring to?
Mrs. OSWALD. He had in mind the Soviet Embassy.
There were NO mentions of LHO in the newspapers as NO one, including the Dallas Police Department (DPD), ever associated LHO to this shooting. Furthermore, since this note does NOT mention his intention to shoot at Walker how would Marina know what to look for in the newspapers?
Why would paying the rent for a month and paying the water and gas for a month make Marina feel better? What would she do after this if LHO was in jail?
This note is ridiculous IMO and proves nothing in regards to the WC’s claims. Another odd thing is the fact LHO had both Walker’s name and TELEPHONE number in his notebook. This is what the WC said about this in their “Rumors and Speculation” section (Appendix XII).
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0344a.gif
Speculation.—Oswald and General Walker were probably acquainted with each other since Oswald’s notebook contained Walker’s name and telephone number.
Commission finding.—Although Oswald’s notebook CONTAINED Walker’s name and telephone number there was no evidence that the two knew each other. It is probable that this information was inserted at the time that Oswald was planning his attack on Walker. General Walker stated that he did NOT know of Oswald before the assassination. (WCR, p. 663) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0344a.htm
Quote off
Why would LHO have Walker’s telephone number and name in his notebook IF he did NOT know Walker? How many names can one person have in their notebook without them meaning anything? The WC said the name and number was “inserted at the time that Oswald was planning his attack on Walker”, but is it required to know the telephone number of someone you are planning to shoot?
We see basically the same language from the FBI in CE 2586 (a rebuttal to Thomas Buchanan’s book Who Killed Kennedy?) in regard to this issue.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/pages/WC_Vol25_0446b.gif
32. Claim: It can be inferred from the fact that General Walker’s name and telephone number were in Oswald’s notebook that Oswald and General Walker were known to each other. Page 154.
Investigation: Our investigation has developed no indication that Oswald and General Walker were known to each other. General Walker has been publicly quoted as saying he did not know anything about Oswald until Oswald was arrested
for the assassination of the President. (CE 2586, p. 862)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/html/WC_Vol25_0446b.htm
Quote off
Again, why is a telephone number necessary for planning to attack someone? Was LHO going to call first to make sure he was home? Can any WC defender provide a reasonable explanation for this to me?
The final piece for the note issue is how and when it was discovered. The note was found allegedly in a book Ruth Paine had sent to Marina after the assassination. Ruth Paine said this before the WC.
Mrs. PAINE - Well, you have not yet asked me if I had seen anything of a note purported to be written by Lee at the time of the attempt on Walker. And I might just recount for you that, if it is of any importance.
Mr. JENNER - Yes; I wish you would--how that occurred. Tell me all you know about it--all you knew about it up to and including November 22.
Mrs. PAINE - I knew absolutely nothing about it up to and including November 22.
A week or two weeks later she was contacted by the Secret Service (SS) as they said they found a note in a book she had given back to Marina recently.
Mr. JENNER - Is there any explanation or anything that you feel you ought to say or wish to say about that incident?
Mrs. PAINE - Well, just that I was shown a portion of a note by two Secret Service men.
Mr. JENNER - This was after November 22?
Mrs. PAINE - It certainly was. Perhaps a week later. I had sent Marina one of these small collections of letters, such as I have described, that includes notes to her and donations, and left such with the Irving police. And on one occasion left also a couple of books which were hers. I referred to the fact that she read to me from a child care book…I believe it was probably the next day I got a call from the Secret Service saying something important had come up in this case, could they come out and see me. I said yes, of course. They arrived. Mr. Gopadze, of the Secret Service, who was acting as translator, and I think the other man's name was Patterson, and he spoke English only--Mr. Gopadze showed me a piece of paper with writing on it, a small piece of paper such as might come from a telephone note pad. He asked me not to read it through carefully, but simply to look at it enough to tell whether I could identify the handwriting and whether I had ever seen it before. I said I could not identify the handwriting. I observed that it was written in Russian, that the second word was a transliteration from the English word--that it said "This key"--using the word "key" rather than the Russian word--and went on to say it was for a post office box. And that is as far as I read. And Mr. Gopadze indicated that it was his impression that I had sent this note to Marina. And this surprised me. And I said----
Mr. JENNER - That is a masterpiece of understatement, isn't it?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; it certainly is. It astounded me. I said that---I repeated that I had not seen it and did not know how I might possibly have sent this to Marina Oswald. I asked if he thought the note was current, and he did not say.
We went on for some time with Mr. Gopadze--this in Russian--saying that "Mrs. Paine, it would be well for you to be absolutely frank and tell us exactly what happened" and my saying in turn to Mr. Gopadze, "I am. What more can I do than what I have said." And finally we went over to English and included Mr. Patterson in the conversation, and he volunteered this note had been in a book. Then I realized what must have happened is that I did send Marina Oswald a book, and described my having sent this to this Irving police and the Secret Service. And that seemed to clear up the mystery for all of us. And they left.
The problem with this discovery is the fact Ruth Paine had said earlier in her testimony that police had already “leafed through the books” in her house.
Mr. McCLOY - Yes; the door was locked, that is what I gather. Do you know what they took on this occasion, or did they tell you what they were coming for?
Mrs. PAINE - No; I do not. Before I left they were leafing through books to see if anything fell out but that is all I saw.
So this begs the question, if the DPD had already leafed through all the books in her house to see “if anything fell out”, how did this note escape their attention? Furthermore, why was Ruth not asked what kind of books she gave back to Marina? This is important as Marina said this before the WC.
Mr. RANKIN. What did you do with the note that he had left for you after you talked about it and said you were going to keep it?
Mrs. OSWALD. I had it among my things in a cookbook. But I have two--I don't remember in which.
Yet, the ONLY book Ruth Paine mentioned was a child care book by Dr. Spock.
Mrs. PAINE: …I referred to the fact that she read to me from a child care book. One of these was a book from which she had been recently reading to me, and she used it much as I had used Benjamin Spock's "Baby and Child Care" when my babies were small--that is constant daily reference. And I thought she would want to have it with her.
What happened to the cookbooks? Anyway, this whole discovery was done while Marina was under the protection of the SS so it is suspect in my mind. The bottom line however is this note never mentions Walker so to claim it is for that is just a empty claim that cannot be supported. Also, why did LHO NOT repeat this process for his plans with JFK?