Post by Rob Caprio on Aug 4, 2021 16:36:48 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
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Let's continue with the alleged bag/package Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) supposedly carried his alleged rifle in. ONLY two witnesses saw it according to the Warren Commission (WC) and neither described a package that was long enough to carry a disassembled 40" Carcano in. A disassembled 40" Carcano is still 36" long when taken apart. A third witness who saw LHO first did NOT see him with ANY bag. Finally, the fourth witness who saw LHO enter the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) did NOT see him carrying any package at all. A defense attorney would have made a good deal out of this inconsistency.
Let's see how long the two witnesses describe the bag they allegedly saw to be.
********************************************
Mr. BALL - What did the package look like?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I will be frank with you, I would just, it is right as you get out of the grocery store, just more or less out of a package, you have seen some of these brown paper sacks you can obtain from any, most of the stores, some varieties, but it was a package just roughly about two feet long.
Two feet is NOT long enough to carry a disassembled 40" Carcano in. Frazier would repeat this size again.
Mr. BALL - It was, what part of the back seat was it in?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was in his side over on his side in the far back.
Mr. BALL - How much of that back seat, how much space did it take up?
Mr. FRAZIER - I would say roughly around 2 feet of the seat.
Mr. BALL - From the side of the seat over to the center, is that the way you would measure it?
Mr. FRAZIER - If, if you were going to measure it that way from the end of the seat over toward the center, right. But I say like I said I just roughly estimate and that would be around two feet, give and take a few inches.
So we see he did NOT make a mistake in his testimony as he repeated this length THREE times. Even if we give the bag a few inches this is still NOT long enough to fit a disassembled 40" Carcano into. Period.
Wes Frazier's FBI Interview:
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=301
Let's look at what his sister said about the alleged bag.
Mr. BALL. We have got a package here which is marked Commission Exhibit No. 364. You have seen this before, I guess, haven't you, I think the FBI showed it to you?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Was the color of that package in any way similar to the color of this package which is 364?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Similar kind of paper, wasn't it?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, was the length of it any similar, anywhere near similar?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well, it wasn't that long, I mean it was folded down at the top as I told you. It definitely wasn't that long.
So she too says the bag the WC has in evidence (And this bag cannot be shown to be the original one since the FBI damaged the original supposedly while testing it. They reconstructed a new bag to match the original supposedly.) is TOO LONG and does NOT match the size she saw on the morning of 11/22/63.
She would again say the package they were presenting, CE 364, looked too long to match what she saw LHO allegedly carrying.
Mr. BALL. The width is about right.
Can you stand up here and show us how he was carrying it. Using this package as an example only?
Mrs. RANDLE. What he had in there, it looked too long.
Mr. BALL. This looks too long?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. About how long would you think the package would be, just measure it right on there.
Mrs. RANDLE. I would say about like this.
Mr. BALL. You mean from here to here?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; with that folded down with this much for him to grip in his hand.
Mr. BALL. This package is about the span of my hand, say 8 inches, is that right? He would have about this much to grip?
Mrs. RANDLE. What I remember seeing is about this long, sir, as I told you it was folded down so it could have been this long.
Mr. BALL. I see. You figure about 2 feet long, is that right?
Mrs. RANDLE. A little bit more.
Mr. BALL. A little more than 2 feet.
We see her description matches her brother's quite closely and falls far too SHORT to be the bag the WC was claiming was a copy of the one LHO used on the morning of 11/22/63.
Linnie Mae Randle's FBI Interview:
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=305
Let's also NOT forget that Linnie Mae and Wes' mom, Essie Mae Williams, was visiting her at the time and she was also present at the breakfast they were having that morning. Let's look at her comment via the testimony her son gave since the WC did NOT see fit to call her directly (she had spoken with the FBI).
Mr. BALL - What is your mother's name?
Mr. FRAZIER - Essie Mae Williams.
Mr. BALL - Was she visiting you and your sister sometime in November 1963?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; she was.
Mr. BALL - How long was she there?
Mr. FRAZIER - She was there for, I believe, for a period of about 4 or 5 weeks because my stepfather was with her and he got sick and they had to put him in the hospital and he was in the hospital 3 or 4 weeks, somewhere, 4 or 5 weeks because they were there a week before he got sick.
Mr. BALL - Then on November 21 and 22, living with you in this residence at Irving, Tex., were your mother, Mrs. Williams, and your sister, Linnie Mae Randle?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
------------
Mr. BALL - As you were having breakfast did your mother say anything to you about...
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say--
Mr. BALL - Oswald?
Mr. FRAZIER - I was sitting there eating my breakfast there, so sitting there, I usually talk to my little nieces, you know, they have them cartoons on for a while and we usually talk a little bit back and forth while eating breakfast and I was just finishing my coffee there and my sister, you know, was working over there around, you know the sink there, and she was fixing my lunch so she was somewhere around there over on the cabinets fixing the cabinets and mother just happened to glance up and saw this man, you know, who was Lee looking in the window for me and she said, "Who is that?"
And I said, "That is Lee," and naturally he just walked around and so I thought he just walked around there on the carport right there close to the door and so I told her I had to go, so I went in there and brushed my teeth right quick and come through there and I usually have my coat laying somewhere on the chair and picked it up and put it on and by that time my sister had my lunch, you know, in a sack and sitting over there on the washer where I picked it up right there by the door and I just walked on out and we got in the car.
Essie Mae Williams would tell the FBI she saw NO package in the hands of LHO! That is incredible if it was 37" like the WC said or even 24-26" inches as her children said! How could LHO hide this from her view when she saw him FIRST?
Essie Mae Williams' FBI Interview:
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=150
Finally, we have to consider the comments of Jack Dougherty as he saw LHO enter the TSBD that morning. He was MUCH CLOSER to him than Wes Frazier was (admittedly 50 feet behind him and NOT paying attention) when LHO opened the door and walked in. What did he see in LHO's hands?
Mr. BALL - Did you see Oswald come to work that morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes---when he first come into the door.
Mr. BALL - When he came in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you see him come in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; I saw him when he first come in the door--yes.
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything in his hands or arms?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, not that I could see of.
-----------------
Mr. BALL - Now, is that a very definite impression that you saw him that morning when he came to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, oh--it's like this--I'll try to explain it to you this way--- you see, I was sitting on the wrapping table and when he came in the door, I just caught him out of the corner of my eye---that's the reason why I said it that way.
The WC was trying to get him to back down by mentioning what he said to the FBI. Despite his comment above of seeing him "out of the corner of his eye" he will show a remarkable knowledge of what he saw. Let's continue.
Mr. BALL - Did he come in with anybody?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - He was alone?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; he was alone.
Mr. BALL - Do you recall him having anything in his hand?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't see anything, if he did.
Mr. BALL - Did you pay enough attention to him, you think, that you would remember whether he did or didn't?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I believe I can---yes, sir---I'll put it this way; I didn't see anything in his hands at the time.
Mr. BALL - In other words, your memory is definite on that is it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
First of all, this is the second time he has asked him this (with a third one coming, believe me, the defense would have prohibited this line of questioning if LHO was granted his right to have a lawyer (and yes, I know he was dead, but that DIDN'T STOP the WC from prosecuting him)) and he has stayed firm. Secondly, wouldn't it have been nice if Ball had been this diligent with Frazier when he kept saying he WASN'T paying any attention to the package or LHO? I mean, he just took his word for it that LHO had the package when he entered the TSBD! We did NOT see the "Did you pay enough attention to him, you think, that you would remember whether he did or didn't?" question being asked to him! I wonder why?
Now, let's ask him a THIRD time the same question.
Mr. BALL - In other words, you would say positively he had nothing in his hands?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I would say that---yes, sir.
Let's IGNORE his THIRD positive declaration and ask IF he was guessing!
Mr. BALL - Or, are you guessing?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I don't think so.
Mr. BALL - You saw him come in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
This is ridiculous stuff here. He is now asking again if he even saw him come in the door. This would have been prevented in a real court as this is called BADGERING the witness. He had answered that question and the one about seeing anything in his hands numerous times already. The comment about his possibly "guessing" is an insult too.
Jack Dougherty's FBI Interview:
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673#relPageId=16
Why didn't he show this vigor with Wes Frazier? For those that claim the WC was NOT a court, and it was NOT, they should ask themselves why this kind of behavior was allowed in order to make a dead man appear to be guilty of crimes he obviously did NOT commit. IF they had evidence showing LHO was really guilty as they claimed, why did they avoid allowing ANY OF HIS RIGHTS TO BE HONORED? What were they afraid of if they had "overwhelming evidence" of his guilt as they claimed?
Does any of this make sense to any of you?
Bottom line, they could NOT show in any way or fashion LHO ever brought a rifle to work on the morning of November 22, 1963.[/b]
4.bp.blogspot.com/-6Uj9yD0bmp0/T35KWzAD4OI/AAAAAAAAHQ0/tdmr0qe5Rgg/s1600/CE142.jpg
preview.ibb.co/k2nGbw/Slide5.gif
2.bp.blogspot.com/-xQmg5GCRI3Q/UFyxIxL-C5I/AAAAAAAAAGc/5tIdsn8vlu4/s1600/JFK+-+Montgomery+paper+bag.jpg
Let's continue with the alleged bag/package Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) supposedly carried his alleged rifle in. ONLY two witnesses saw it according to the Warren Commission (WC) and neither described a package that was long enough to carry a disassembled 40" Carcano in. A disassembled 40" Carcano is still 36" long when taken apart. A third witness who saw LHO first did NOT see him with ANY bag. Finally, the fourth witness who saw LHO enter the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) did NOT see him carrying any package at all. A defense attorney would have made a good deal out of this inconsistency.
Let's see how long the two witnesses describe the bag they allegedly saw to be.
********************************************
Mr. BALL - What did the package look like?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I will be frank with you, I would just, it is right as you get out of the grocery store, just more or less out of a package, you have seen some of these brown paper sacks you can obtain from any, most of the stores, some varieties, but it was a package just roughly about two feet long.
Two feet is NOT long enough to carry a disassembled 40" Carcano in. Frazier would repeat this size again.
Mr. BALL - It was, what part of the back seat was it in?
Mr. FRAZIER - It was in his side over on his side in the far back.
Mr. BALL - How much of that back seat, how much space did it take up?
Mr. FRAZIER - I would say roughly around 2 feet of the seat.
Mr. BALL - From the side of the seat over to the center, is that the way you would measure it?
Mr. FRAZIER - If, if you were going to measure it that way from the end of the seat over toward the center, right. But I say like I said I just roughly estimate and that would be around two feet, give and take a few inches.
So we see he did NOT make a mistake in his testimony as he repeated this length THREE times. Even if we give the bag a few inches this is still NOT long enough to fit a disassembled 40" Carcano into. Period.
Wes Frazier's FBI Interview:
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=301
Let's look at what his sister said about the alleged bag.
Mr. BALL. We have got a package here which is marked Commission Exhibit No. 364. You have seen this before, I guess, haven't you, I think the FBI showed it to you?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Was the color of that package in any way similar to the color of this package which is 364?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Similar kind of paper, wasn't it?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, was the length of it any similar, anywhere near similar?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well, it wasn't that long, I mean it was folded down at the top as I told you. It definitely wasn't that long.
So she too says the bag the WC has in evidence (And this bag cannot be shown to be the original one since the FBI damaged the original supposedly while testing it. They reconstructed a new bag to match the original supposedly.) is TOO LONG and does NOT match the size she saw on the morning of 11/22/63.
She would again say the package they were presenting, CE 364, looked too long to match what she saw LHO allegedly carrying.
Mr. BALL. The width is about right.
Can you stand up here and show us how he was carrying it. Using this package as an example only?
Mrs. RANDLE. What he had in there, it looked too long.
Mr. BALL. This looks too long?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. About how long would you think the package would be, just measure it right on there.
Mrs. RANDLE. I would say about like this.
Mr. BALL. You mean from here to here?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; with that folded down with this much for him to grip in his hand.
Mr. BALL. This package is about the span of my hand, say 8 inches, is that right? He would have about this much to grip?
Mrs. RANDLE. What I remember seeing is about this long, sir, as I told you it was folded down so it could have been this long.
Mr. BALL. I see. You figure about 2 feet long, is that right?
Mrs. RANDLE. A little bit more.
Mr. BALL. A little more than 2 feet.
We see her description matches her brother's quite closely and falls far too SHORT to be the bag the WC was claiming was a copy of the one LHO used on the morning of 11/22/63.
Linnie Mae Randle's FBI Interview:
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10408#relPageId=305
Let's also NOT forget that Linnie Mae and Wes' mom, Essie Mae Williams, was visiting her at the time and she was also present at the breakfast they were having that morning. Let's look at her comment via the testimony her son gave since the WC did NOT see fit to call her directly (she had spoken with the FBI).
Mr. BALL - What is your mother's name?
Mr. FRAZIER - Essie Mae Williams.
Mr. BALL - Was she visiting you and your sister sometime in November 1963?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; she was.
Mr. BALL - How long was she there?
Mr. FRAZIER - She was there for, I believe, for a period of about 4 or 5 weeks because my stepfather was with her and he got sick and they had to put him in the hospital and he was in the hospital 3 or 4 weeks, somewhere, 4 or 5 weeks because they were there a week before he got sick.
Mr. BALL - Then on November 21 and 22, living with you in this residence at Irving, Tex., were your mother, Mrs. Williams, and your sister, Linnie Mae Randle?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
------------
Mr. BALL - As you were having breakfast did your mother say anything to you about...
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say--
Mr. BALL - Oswald?
Mr. FRAZIER - I was sitting there eating my breakfast there, so sitting there, I usually talk to my little nieces, you know, they have them cartoons on for a while and we usually talk a little bit back and forth while eating breakfast and I was just finishing my coffee there and my sister, you know, was working over there around, you know the sink there, and she was fixing my lunch so she was somewhere around there over on the cabinets fixing the cabinets and mother just happened to glance up and saw this man, you know, who was Lee looking in the window for me and she said, "Who is that?"
And I said, "That is Lee," and naturally he just walked around and so I thought he just walked around there on the carport right there close to the door and so I told her I had to go, so I went in there and brushed my teeth right quick and come through there and I usually have my coat laying somewhere on the chair and picked it up and put it on and by that time my sister had my lunch, you know, in a sack and sitting over there on the washer where I picked it up right there by the door and I just walked on out and we got in the car.
Essie Mae Williams would tell the FBI she saw NO package in the hands of LHO! That is incredible if it was 37" like the WC said or even 24-26" inches as her children said! How could LHO hide this from her view when she saw him FIRST?
Essie Mae Williams' FBI Interview:
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=150
Finally, we have to consider the comments of Jack Dougherty as he saw LHO enter the TSBD that morning. He was MUCH CLOSER to him than Wes Frazier was (admittedly 50 feet behind him and NOT paying attention) when LHO opened the door and walked in. What did he see in LHO's hands?
Mr. BALL - Did you see Oswald come to work that morning?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes---when he first come into the door.
Mr. BALL - When he came in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you see him come in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; I saw him when he first come in the door--yes.
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything in his hands or arms?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, not that I could see of.
-----------------
Mr. BALL - Now, is that a very definite impression that you saw him that morning when he came to work?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, oh--it's like this--I'll try to explain it to you this way--- you see, I was sitting on the wrapping table and when he came in the door, I just caught him out of the corner of my eye---that's the reason why I said it that way.
The WC was trying to get him to back down by mentioning what he said to the FBI. Despite his comment above of seeing him "out of the corner of his eye" he will show a remarkable knowledge of what he saw. Let's continue.
Mr. BALL - Did he come in with anybody?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - He was alone?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes; he was alone.
Mr. BALL - Do you recall him having anything in his hand?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I didn't see anything, if he did.
Mr. BALL - Did you pay enough attention to him, you think, that you would remember whether he did or didn't?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I believe I can---yes, sir---I'll put it this way; I didn't see anything in his hands at the time.
Mr. BALL - In other words, your memory is definite on that is it?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes, sir.
First of all, this is the second time he has asked him this (with a third one coming, believe me, the defense would have prohibited this line of questioning if LHO was granted his right to have a lawyer (and yes, I know he was dead, but that DIDN'T STOP the WC from prosecuting him)) and he has stayed firm. Secondly, wouldn't it have been nice if Ball had been this diligent with Frazier when he kept saying he WASN'T paying any attention to the package or LHO? I mean, he just took his word for it that LHO had the package when he entered the TSBD! We did NOT see the "Did you pay enough attention to him, you think, that you would remember whether he did or didn't?" question being asked to him! I wonder why?
Now, let's ask him a THIRD time the same question.
Mr. BALL - In other words, you would say positively he had nothing in his hands?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I would say that---yes, sir.
Let's IGNORE his THIRD positive declaration and ask IF he was guessing!
Mr. BALL - Or, are you guessing?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - I don't think so.
Mr. BALL - You saw him come in the door?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.
This is ridiculous stuff here. He is now asking again if he even saw him come in the door. This would have been prevented in a real court as this is called BADGERING the witness. He had answered that question and the one about seeing anything in his hands numerous times already. The comment about his possibly "guessing" is an insult too.
Jack Dougherty's FBI Interview:
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10673#relPageId=16
Why didn't he show this vigor with Wes Frazier? For those that claim the WC was NOT a court, and it was NOT, they should ask themselves why this kind of behavior was allowed in order to make a dead man appear to be guilty of crimes he obviously did NOT commit. IF they had evidence showing LHO was really guilty as they claimed, why did they avoid allowing ANY OF HIS RIGHTS TO BE HONORED? What were they afraid of if they had "overwhelming evidence" of his guilt as they claimed?
Does any of this make sense to any of you?
Bottom line, they could NOT show in any way or fashion LHO ever brought a rifle to work on the morning of November 22, 1963.[/b]