Post by Rob Caprio on Sept 20, 2021 12:19:08 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
spartacus-educational.com/1AASylviaOdio1.jpg
This post will look at an incident that occurred when the Warren Commission (WC) said Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was allegedly in Mexico City. Like the other sightings covered in other posts on this topic, this one too will show the WC did NOT search for the truth but rather from the outset tried to squelch anything that did NOT match up with their preconceived conclusion.
This is the story of Sylvia Odio.
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On July 22, 1964 Sylvia Odio gave testimony to the WC via one of their lawyers, Wesley J. Liebeler, regarding an incident she had near the end of September 1963. She said she was visited by three men, one of which was LHO. Let’s look at her testimony. (Note: I will trim as much as possible as she gave very long answers in some cases. My goal is to only present the relevant things to the alleged LHO sighting.)
Mr. LIEBELER. My record indicates that on December 18, 1963, you were interviewed by two agents of the FBI, Mr. James P. Hoary and Bardwell D. Odum. Do you remember that?
Mrs. ODIO. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER It is my understanding that they interviewed you at your place of work, is that correct?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER Do you remember approximately what they asked you and what you told them?
Mrs. ODIO. I think I remember. Not exactly, but I think I can recall the conversation.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you give us the content of that conversation, as best you can recall
Mrs. ODIO. They told me they were coming because of the assassination of President Kennedy, that they had news that I knew or I had known Lee Harvey Oswald. And I told them that I had not known him as Lee Harvey Oswald, but that he was introduced to me as Leon Oswald. And they showed me a picture of Oswald and a picture of Ruby. I did not know Ruby, but I did recall Oswald. They asked me to tell the story about what happened in my house.
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us all the circumstances surrounding the event when Oswald came to your house.
Mrs. ODIO. Well, I had been having little groups of Cubans coming to my house who have been asking me to help them in JURE. They were going to open a revolutionary paper here in Dallas. And I told them at the time I was very busy with my four children, and I would help, in other things like selling bonus to help buy arms for Cuba. And I said I would help as much as I could.
Those are my activities before Oswald came. Of course, all the Cubans knew that I was involved in JURE, but it did not have a lot of sympathy in Dallas and I was criticized because of that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Because of what now?
Mrs. ODIO. Because I was sympathetic with Ray and this movement. So we were all involved in this moving business, and my sister Annie, who at the time was staying with some America friends, had come over that weekend to babysit for me.
It either was a Thursday or 'a Friday. It must have been either one of those days, in the last days of September. And I was getting dressed to go out to a friend's house, and she was staying to babysit.
Like I said, the doorbell rang .and she went over--she had a housecoat on--she wasn't dressed properly--and came back and said, "Sylvia, there are three men at the door, and one seems to be an American, the other two seem to be Cubans. Do you know them ?" So I put a housecoat on and stood at the door. I never opened my door unless I know who they are, because I have had occasions where Cubans. have introduced themselves as having arrived from Cuba and known my family, and I never know.
So I went to the door, and he said, "Are you Sarita Odio?" And I said, "I am not. That is my sister studying at the University of Dallas. I am Sylvia." Then he said, "Is she the oldest?" And I said, "No; I am the oldest." And he said, "It is you we are looking for." So he said, "We are members of JURE."
This at the time struck me funny, because their faces did not seem familiar, and I asked them for their names. One of them said his name was Leopoldo. He said that was his war name. In all this underground, everybody has a war name. This was done for safety in Cuba. So when everybody came to exile, everyone was known by their war names.
And the other one did give me his name, but I can't recall. I have been trying to recall. It was something like Angelo. I have never been able to remember, and I couldn't be exact on this name, but the other one I am exact on; I remember perfectly.
There are three men. One gave the name of Leopoldo, one gave the name of Angelo or something like that, and the third is an American said to be "Leon Oswald". She was not sure of the exact date, but her sister was more sure. In CE-2942 she is quoted telling the FBI the dates she believed the visit occurred.
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…She (Annie Odio) advised the above incident (the three men coming to Sylvia’s apartment) occurred either on September 26, 1963 or September 27, 1963 when she was residing in apartment A at 1084 Magellen Circle, Dallas, Texas.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/html/WH_Vol26_0219a.htm
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These dates cause concern for the WC because again they had LHO in Mexico City around this time, thus, they did NOT follow this like an independent, unbiased, investigator would. Instead, they began to find issues with Sylvia Odio’s character to discredit her statements.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let me ask you this before you go ahead with the story. Which one of the men told you that they were members of JURE and did most of the talking? Was it the American?
Mrs. ODIO. The American had not said a word yet.
Mr. LIEBELER. Which one of the Cubans?
Mrs. ODIO. The American was in the middle. They were leaning against the staircase. There was a tall one. Let me toll you, they both looked very greasy like the kind of low Cubans, not educated at all. And one was on the heavier side and had black hair. I recall one of them had glasses, if I remember. We have been trying to establish, my sister and I, the identity of this man. And one of them, the tall one, was the one called Leopoldo.
Mr. LIEBELER. He did most of the talking?
Mrs. ODIO. He did most of the talking. The other one kept quiet, and the American, we will call him Leon, said just a few little words in Spanish, trying to be cute, but very few, like "Hola," like that in Spanish.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was the chain fastened?
Mrs. ODIO. No; I unfastened it after a little while when they told me they were members of JURE, and were trying to let me have them come into the house. When I said no, one of them said, "We are very good friends of your father." And after a little while, after they mentioned my father, they started talking about the American.
And he said, "We wanted you to meet this American. His name is Leon Oswald." He repeated it twice. Then my sister Annie by that time was standing near the door. She had come to see what was going on. And they introduced him as an American who was very much interested in the Cuban cause. And let me see, if I recall exactly what they said about him. I don't recall at the time I was at the door things about him.
I recall a telephone call that I had the next day from the so-called Leopoldo, so I cannot remember the conversation at the door about this American.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did your sister hear this man introduced as Leon Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. She says she doesn't recall. She could not say that it is true. I mean, even though she said she thought I had mentioned the name very clearly, and I had mentioned the names of the three men.
Mr. LIEBELER. But she didn't remember it?
Mrs. ODIO. No; she said I mentioned it, because I made a comment. This I don't recall.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did your sister see the men?
Mrs. ODIO. She saw the three of them.
It is important that she did because the FBI would interview her on July 30, 1964. It is CE-2907 and contains the following point.
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When she returned to her home and heard of the assassination, she turned on the television set. Subsquently, Lee Harvey Oswald appeared on television as the leading suspect. Miss Odio said that as soon as she saw Oswald on television she had a distinct impression that she knew she had seen him before.
A short time thereafter while visiting her sister Sylvia, Miss Odio mentioned to Sylvia that she had had the feeling that she had either met or seen Oswald previously. Sylvia then remarked that Oswald was the American who had accompanied the two Cubans to Sylvia’s apartment in late September, 1963. Miss Odio said that she then recalled that incident and that this was in fact the person of whom she had been thinking when she saw Oswald on television. Miss Odio said that she was almost certain that the American who came to to Sylvia’s apartment with the two Cubans was Oswald.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/html/WH_Vol26_0199b.htm
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We see CORROBORATION for Sylvia’s claim from her sister Annie in this FBI document. This would strengthen her statement in any normal court proceeding, but of course the WC was NOT a court proceeding. Now, back to Sylvia’s testimony.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you discussed this with her since that time?
Mrs. ODIO. I just had to discuss it because it was bothering me. I just had to know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did she think it was Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. Well, her reaction to it when Oswald came on television, she almost passed out on me, just like I did the day at work when I learned about the assassination of the President. Her reaction was so obvious that it was him, I mean. And my reaction, we remember Oswald the day he came to my house because he had not shaved and he had a kind of a very, I don't know how to express it, but some little hairs like if you haven't shaved, but it is not a thick moustache, but some kind of shadow. That is something I noticed
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned when your sister saw Oswald's picture on television that she almost passed out. Did she recognize him, do you know, as the man that had been in the apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. She said, "Sylvia, you know that man?" And I said, "Yes," and she said, "I know him." "He was the one that came to our door, and it couldn't be so, could it?"
This is consistent with what her sister told the FBI. Since Sylvia saw them leaving in a car the WC asked this question.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know which one of the men was driving?
Mrs. ODIO. The tall one, Leopoldo.
She mentioned that they told her two or three times that they would be leaving for a trip the next day.
Mr. LIEBELER. But they did not indicate where they were going?
Mrs. ODIO. The next day Leopoldo called me. I had gotten home from work, so I imagine it must have been Friday. And they had come on Thursday. I have been trying to establish that Then he said, "What do you think of the American?" And I said, "I didn't think anything."
And he said, "You know our idea is to introduce him to the underground in Cuba, because he is great, he is kind of nuts." This was more or less--I can't repeat the exact words, because he was kind of nuts. He told us we don't have any guts, you Cubans, because President Kennedy should have been assassinated after the Bay of Pigs, and some Cubans should have done that, because he was the one that was holding the freedom of Cuba actually. And I started getting a little upset with the conversation.
And he said, "It is so easy to do it." He has told us. Then he mentioned something more about Oswald. They called him Leon. He never mentioned the name Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER. He never mentioned the name of Oswald on the telephone?
Mrs. ODIO. He never mentioned his last name. He always referred to the American or Leon.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he mention his last name the night before?
Mrs. ODIO. Before they left I asked their names again, and he mentioned their names again.
Mr. LIEBELER. But he did not mention Oswald's name except as Leon?
Mrs. ODIO. On the telephone conversation he referred to him as Leon or American. He said he had been a Marine and he was so interested in helping the Cubans, and he was terrific.
Later on in her testimony it would be pointed out that they did in fact introduce him to her as “Leon Oswald.”
Mr. LIEBELER. But they did in fact, introduce him as Leon Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. And I shook hands with him.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is also what you told Agent Hoary when he interviewed you on December 18, 1963, and that is indicated in his report?
Mrs. ODIO. Oh, yes.
Obviously the comment about him having been in the Marines would match LHO’s background. Ditto the comment of him being “kind of nuts”, LONE NUTS that is per the WC!
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, a report that we have from Agent Hosty indicates that when you told him about Leopoldo's telephone call to you the following day, that you told Agent Hosty that Leopoldo told you he was not going to have anything more to do with Leon Oswald since Leon was considered to be loco?
Mrs. ODIO. That's right. He used two tactics with me, and this I have analyzed. He wanted me to introduce this man. He thought that I had something to do with the underground, with the big operation, and I could get men into Cuba. That is what he thought, which is not true.
When I had no reaction to the American, he thought that he would mention that the man was loco and out of his mind and would be the kind of man that could do anything like getting underground in Cuba, like killing Castro. He repeated several times he was an expert shotman. And he said, "We probably won't have anything to do with him. He is kind of loco."
When he mentioned the fact that we should have killed President Kennedy--and this I recall in my conversation he was trying to play it safe. If I liked him, then he would go along with me, but if I didn't like him, he was kind of retreating to see what my reaction was. It was cleverly done.
Mr. LIEBELER. So he actually played both sides of the fence?
Mrs. ODIO. That's right, both sides of the fence.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Leopoldo tell you that Leon had been in the Armed Forces?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did he tell you about that?
Mrs. ODIO. He said he had been in the Marines. That is what he said.
Leopoldo again implied LHO was “nuts”. Her guess of LHO’s age is off, but her description of his height is pretty much dead on.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now how old would you say Oswald was? Did you form an opinion about that when you saw him at the time?
Mrs. ODIO. No; I have never thought about it. I mean, I never thought how old he was. He seemed to be a young man. I mean, not an old man. I would say he was a young man; yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Could you say how old you thought he was after you saw him that day in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. I can't say that. I can establish in my thoughts; yes, I could establish an age, but I didn't think of it at the time.
Mr. LIEBELER. What age would you establish you thought about it?
Mrs. ODIO. Oh, 34 or 35.
Of course in a court of law you would NOT get three cracks at the same question the witness has just answered. She stated twice she had NEVER thought of it, and yet, he kept asking her to guess.
Mr. LIEBELER. About how tall was he?
Mrs. ODIO. He wasn't too tall. He was maybe 4 inches taller than I am.
Mr. LIEBELER. How tall are you?
Mrs. ODIO. I am 5 feet 6 inches.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you think he was about 5 feet 10?
Mrs. ODIO. Probably.
LHO has been listed as 5’9”, 5’10” and 5’11” so this is pretty accurate.
Mr. LIEBELER About how was he built? Was he a heavy man or a light man?
Mrs. ODIO. He was kind of a skinny man, because the shirt looked big on him, like it was borrowed.
Mr. LIEBELER. Like it was borrowed from somebody else?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes; that is the impression he gave me, because it kind of hung loose.
Mr. LIEBELER. Didn't fit well?
Mrs. ODIO. It didn't fit.
LHO was a slender man. They would eventually move on to her reaction to seeing LHO being arrested and tied to the JFK assassination.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did you first become aware of the fact that this man who had been at your apartment was the man who had been arrested in connection with the assassination?
Mrs. ODIO. It was immediately.
Mr. LIEBELER. As soon as you saw his picture?
Mrs. ODIO. Immediately; I was so sure.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any doubt about it?
Mrs. ODIO. I don't have any doubts.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any doubt about it then?
Mrs. ODIO. I kept saying it can't be to myself; it just can't be. I mean it couldn't be, but when my sister walked into the hospital and she said, "Sylvia, have you seen the man?" And I said, "Yes." And she said, "That was the man that was at the door of my house." So I had no doubts then.
She seems firm to me in her ID of LHO. She would be shown a photo of LHO (Bringuier Ex. 1) and asked if she saw anyone familiar.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pages/WH_Vol19_0096a.jpg
Mr. LIEBELER. I show you a photograph that has been marked as Bringuier Exhibit No. 1, and ask you if you can identify anybody in that photograph?
Mrs. ODIO. That is Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER With the X?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you recognize anybody else in the picture?
Mrs. ODIO. No.
They would use this picture and Pizzo 453-B to try and see if anyone pictured with LHO were at her apartment, but she said no. They were NOT the men she saw with him. They would have her look at LHO in Pizzo 453-A&B.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pages/WH_Vol21_0082a.jpg
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, do you recognize Oswald in any of these pictures; in Exhibit No. 453-A?
Mrs. ODIO. [Pointing.]
Mr. LIEBELER. You indicate the man with the green X over his head as being Oswald, and that is the man who was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. He looks a little bit fatter. I don't know if it is the picture. He looked thinner when he was in the apartment, than he looks in this picture. He was kind of drawn when he was there. His face was kind of drawn. But he looks more familiar there. He looks more like he looked that day.
Mr. LIEBELER. In Exhibit No. 453-B, the man with the green line over his head looks more like the man that was in your apartment; is that correct?
Mrs. ODIO. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any doubt that that man with the green line over his head in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B Was the man who was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. Well, if it is not, it is his twin.
They kept going as if this was NOT enough. Onto the Garner exhibit.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pages/WH_Vol20_0012b.jpg
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, I show you a photograph that has been marked Garner Exhibit No. I and ask you if you recognize that man.
Mrs. ODIO. That is Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that the man who was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure?
Mrs. ODIO. He doesn't have the little thing, the little moustache that he had that day. He looks shaved there, and he did not look shaved that day.
What kind of nonsense is this “Are you sure?” stuff? Do they ask Markham, Marina, Bledsoe, Brennan, et. al. this question? I don’t think so. She SOUNDS SURE TO ME, what do you think? This was STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH THOUGH as off we go to Pizzo 453-C.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pages/WH_Vol21_0082b.jpg
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you think this man in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-C is Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes; I think that is him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you think that is the man that was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. Well, let me say something. I think this man was the one that was in my apartment. I am not too sure of that picture. He didn't look like this. He was smiling that day. He was more smiling than in this picture.
Despite her saying numerous times that pictures of LHO matched the man at her apartment, save the slight mustache, they still weren’t done! They would move onto MOVIES of LHO now! Again, she would have NO doubts about it being LHO.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, do you have any doubts in your mind after looking at these pictures that the man that was in your apartment was the same man as Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. I don't have any doubts.
Immediately after she said this Leibeler said this!
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you want to run the picture once more, John?
NO matter HOW MANY TIMES she said she had NO doubts it was LHO they went onto the next picture or rerunning the movie as IF she had said she was NOT sure. She seemed pretty sure to me and we have her sister’s corroboration. Now, let’s look at how the WC handled this.
Lee J. Rankin would write to J. Edgar Hoover (JEH) requesting him to look into Sylvia Odio’s credibility. You won’t find such a request for ANY OF THE WC’S own witnesses of course. This request can be found in CE-3045 and contains this relevant section:
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Please conduct whatever additional investigation you deem appropriate to determine the possible validity of Mrs. Odio’s testimony. We think it might be in order to determine Mrs. Odio’s veracity in other areas by checking on some of the testimony she gave concerning her background. We note that she claims to be acquainted with Manolo Rey, an anti-Castro leader in Puerto Rico, and that her father is a political prisoner of Fidel Castro.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/html/WH_Vol26_0316b.htm
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Confirmation of her acquaintance with Mr. Rey can be found in CE-3148 as he said to the FBI that “he regards Sylvia Odio to be intelligent, and a person of good character.” He would also confirm that both of her parents were arrested and imprisoned by Castro.
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Of course as we all know the WC discounted her testimony as they had LHO going to Mexico City around this time. They wrote on page 323 of their Report the following:
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Moreover, it did not seem probable that Oswald would speed from New Orleans, spend a short time talking with Sylvia Odio, and then travel from Dallas to Mexico City and back on the bus. Automobile travel in the time available, though perhaps possible, would have been difficult. The Commission noted, however, that if Oswald had reached Dallas on the evening of September 25, he could have traveled by bus to Alice, Tex., and there caught the bus which had left Houston for Laredo at 2:35 a.m. on September 26, 1963. (WCR, 323)
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In typical WC fashion after they said something probably did NOT happen they then told us IT COULD HAVE happened. It would mention NO tickets were sold for their own scenario though, so we should all forget it. The funny part is that the man seen by Odio was with two other men and she said they left by AUTOMOBILE, thus, a bus was not needed since she said Leopoldo said “they” were going on a trip. Furthermore, NO tickets were found showing LHO ever went to Mexico until just weeks before the WC published its work and these were found under highly suspicious circumstances. Plus, the bus manifest has been shown, and admitted to, being fake. There is NO record of LHO travelling by bus as the WC would claim, but they felt comfortable shooting down other ideas.
The other point is the WC made a glib comment that ITS OWN TESTIMONY refuted when it said LHO would not travel to “spend a short time talking with Sylvia Odio”! Why? In her testimony Ms. Odio said LHO, or the man who looked like his “twin”, did NOT do much talking. Leopoldo did the talking for the most part so this comment was glib and UNTRUE based on the WC’s own evidence.
Despite the WC asking the FBI to locate the two men with LHO they NEVER did! The largest investigation in the history of America could NOT find two men per the WC! One man, Loren Eugene Hall, would claim it was him with the other two men, but then later recounted that claim. The other name mentioned by the WC is William Seymour. William Seymour would be named as a participant by the House Select Committee on Assassinations’ (HSCA) Richard E. Sprague in his book, “Taking of America”, many years later. He supposedly looked like LHO too to some degree.
Despite the FBI NOT being able to refute Sylvia Odio in the least the WC would conclude the following:
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While the FBI has not yet completed its investigation into this matter at the time the report went to press, the Commission has concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald was not at Mrs. Odio’s apartment in September, 1963. (WCR, 324)
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In typical WC fashion they wrote something off because it did NOT suit their preconceived, and BIASED, conclusion. They NEVER REFUTED A WORD SYLVIA ODIO said and she and her sister both said the man they saw was either LHO or his twin. Also, the FACT that there was discussion of ASSASSINATING JFK NEVER seemed to trouble the WC in the least. Why not?
spartacus-educational.com/1AASylviaOdio1.jpg
This post will look at an incident that occurred when the Warren Commission (WC) said Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was allegedly in Mexico City. Like the other sightings covered in other posts on this topic, this one too will show the WC did NOT search for the truth but rather from the outset tried to squelch anything that did NOT match up with their preconceived conclusion.
This is the story of Sylvia Odio.
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On July 22, 1964 Sylvia Odio gave testimony to the WC via one of their lawyers, Wesley J. Liebeler, regarding an incident she had near the end of September 1963. She said she was visited by three men, one of which was LHO. Let’s look at her testimony. (Note: I will trim as much as possible as she gave very long answers in some cases. My goal is to only present the relevant things to the alleged LHO sighting.)
Mr. LIEBELER. My record indicates that on December 18, 1963, you were interviewed by two agents of the FBI, Mr. James P. Hoary and Bardwell D. Odum. Do you remember that?
Mrs. ODIO. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER It is my understanding that they interviewed you at your place of work, is that correct?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER Do you remember approximately what they asked you and what you told them?
Mrs. ODIO. I think I remember. Not exactly, but I think I can recall the conversation.
Mr. LIEBELER. Would you give us the content of that conversation, as best you can recall
Mrs. ODIO. They told me they were coming because of the assassination of President Kennedy, that they had news that I knew or I had known Lee Harvey Oswald. And I told them that I had not known him as Lee Harvey Oswald, but that he was introduced to me as Leon Oswald. And they showed me a picture of Oswald and a picture of Ruby. I did not know Ruby, but I did recall Oswald. They asked me to tell the story about what happened in my house.
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us all the circumstances surrounding the event when Oswald came to your house.
Mrs. ODIO. Well, I had been having little groups of Cubans coming to my house who have been asking me to help them in JURE. They were going to open a revolutionary paper here in Dallas. And I told them at the time I was very busy with my four children, and I would help, in other things like selling bonus to help buy arms for Cuba. And I said I would help as much as I could.
Those are my activities before Oswald came. Of course, all the Cubans knew that I was involved in JURE, but it did not have a lot of sympathy in Dallas and I was criticized because of that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Because of what now?
Mrs. ODIO. Because I was sympathetic with Ray and this movement. So we were all involved in this moving business, and my sister Annie, who at the time was staying with some America friends, had come over that weekend to babysit for me.
It either was a Thursday or 'a Friday. It must have been either one of those days, in the last days of September. And I was getting dressed to go out to a friend's house, and she was staying to babysit.
Like I said, the doorbell rang .and she went over--she had a housecoat on--she wasn't dressed properly--and came back and said, "Sylvia, there are three men at the door, and one seems to be an American, the other two seem to be Cubans. Do you know them ?" So I put a housecoat on and stood at the door. I never opened my door unless I know who they are, because I have had occasions where Cubans. have introduced themselves as having arrived from Cuba and known my family, and I never know.
So I went to the door, and he said, "Are you Sarita Odio?" And I said, "I am not. That is my sister studying at the University of Dallas. I am Sylvia." Then he said, "Is she the oldest?" And I said, "No; I am the oldest." And he said, "It is you we are looking for." So he said, "We are members of JURE."
This at the time struck me funny, because their faces did not seem familiar, and I asked them for their names. One of them said his name was Leopoldo. He said that was his war name. In all this underground, everybody has a war name. This was done for safety in Cuba. So when everybody came to exile, everyone was known by their war names.
And the other one did give me his name, but I can't recall. I have been trying to recall. It was something like Angelo. I have never been able to remember, and I couldn't be exact on this name, but the other one I am exact on; I remember perfectly.
There are three men. One gave the name of Leopoldo, one gave the name of Angelo or something like that, and the third is an American said to be "Leon Oswald". She was not sure of the exact date, but her sister was more sure. In CE-2942 she is quoted telling the FBI the dates she believed the visit occurred.
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…She (Annie Odio) advised the above incident (the three men coming to Sylvia’s apartment) occurred either on September 26, 1963 or September 27, 1963 when she was residing in apartment A at 1084 Magellen Circle, Dallas, Texas.
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These dates cause concern for the WC because again they had LHO in Mexico City around this time, thus, they did NOT follow this like an independent, unbiased, investigator would. Instead, they began to find issues with Sylvia Odio’s character to discredit her statements.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let me ask you this before you go ahead with the story. Which one of the men told you that they were members of JURE and did most of the talking? Was it the American?
Mrs. ODIO. The American had not said a word yet.
Mr. LIEBELER. Which one of the Cubans?
Mrs. ODIO. The American was in the middle. They were leaning against the staircase. There was a tall one. Let me toll you, they both looked very greasy like the kind of low Cubans, not educated at all. And one was on the heavier side and had black hair. I recall one of them had glasses, if I remember. We have been trying to establish, my sister and I, the identity of this man. And one of them, the tall one, was the one called Leopoldo.
Mr. LIEBELER. He did most of the talking?
Mrs. ODIO. He did most of the talking. The other one kept quiet, and the American, we will call him Leon, said just a few little words in Spanish, trying to be cute, but very few, like "Hola," like that in Spanish.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was the chain fastened?
Mrs. ODIO. No; I unfastened it after a little while when they told me they were members of JURE, and were trying to let me have them come into the house. When I said no, one of them said, "We are very good friends of your father." And after a little while, after they mentioned my father, they started talking about the American.
And he said, "We wanted you to meet this American. His name is Leon Oswald." He repeated it twice. Then my sister Annie by that time was standing near the door. She had come to see what was going on. And they introduced him as an American who was very much interested in the Cuban cause. And let me see, if I recall exactly what they said about him. I don't recall at the time I was at the door things about him.
I recall a telephone call that I had the next day from the so-called Leopoldo, so I cannot remember the conversation at the door about this American.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did your sister hear this man introduced as Leon Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. She says she doesn't recall. She could not say that it is true. I mean, even though she said she thought I had mentioned the name very clearly, and I had mentioned the names of the three men.
Mr. LIEBELER. But she didn't remember it?
Mrs. ODIO. No; she said I mentioned it, because I made a comment. This I don't recall.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did your sister see the men?
Mrs. ODIO. She saw the three of them.
It is important that she did because the FBI would interview her on July 30, 1964. It is CE-2907 and contains the following point.
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When she returned to her home and heard of the assassination, she turned on the television set. Subsquently, Lee Harvey Oswald appeared on television as the leading suspect. Miss Odio said that as soon as she saw Oswald on television she had a distinct impression that she knew she had seen him before.
A short time thereafter while visiting her sister Sylvia, Miss Odio mentioned to Sylvia that she had had the feeling that she had either met or seen Oswald previously. Sylvia then remarked that Oswald was the American who had accompanied the two Cubans to Sylvia’s apartment in late September, 1963. Miss Odio said that she then recalled that incident and that this was in fact the person of whom she had been thinking when she saw Oswald on television. Miss Odio said that she was almost certain that the American who came to to Sylvia’s apartment with the two Cubans was Oswald.
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We see CORROBORATION for Sylvia’s claim from her sister Annie in this FBI document. This would strengthen her statement in any normal court proceeding, but of course the WC was NOT a court proceeding. Now, back to Sylvia’s testimony.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you discussed this with her since that time?
Mrs. ODIO. I just had to discuss it because it was bothering me. I just had to know.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did she think it was Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. Well, her reaction to it when Oswald came on television, she almost passed out on me, just like I did the day at work when I learned about the assassination of the President. Her reaction was so obvious that it was him, I mean. And my reaction, we remember Oswald the day he came to my house because he had not shaved and he had a kind of a very, I don't know how to express it, but some little hairs like if you haven't shaved, but it is not a thick moustache, but some kind of shadow. That is something I noticed
Mr. LIEBELER. You mentioned when your sister saw Oswald's picture on television that she almost passed out. Did she recognize him, do you know, as the man that had been in the apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. She said, "Sylvia, you know that man?" And I said, "Yes," and she said, "I know him." "He was the one that came to our door, and it couldn't be so, could it?"
This is consistent with what her sister told the FBI. Since Sylvia saw them leaving in a car the WC asked this question.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know which one of the men was driving?
Mrs. ODIO. The tall one, Leopoldo.
She mentioned that they told her two or three times that they would be leaving for a trip the next day.
Mr. LIEBELER. But they did not indicate where they were going?
Mrs. ODIO. The next day Leopoldo called me. I had gotten home from work, so I imagine it must have been Friday. And they had come on Thursday. I have been trying to establish that Then he said, "What do you think of the American?" And I said, "I didn't think anything."
And he said, "You know our idea is to introduce him to the underground in Cuba, because he is great, he is kind of nuts." This was more or less--I can't repeat the exact words, because he was kind of nuts. He told us we don't have any guts, you Cubans, because President Kennedy should have been assassinated after the Bay of Pigs, and some Cubans should have done that, because he was the one that was holding the freedom of Cuba actually. And I started getting a little upset with the conversation.
And he said, "It is so easy to do it." He has told us. Then he mentioned something more about Oswald. They called him Leon. He never mentioned the name Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER. He never mentioned the name of Oswald on the telephone?
Mrs. ODIO. He never mentioned his last name. He always referred to the American or Leon.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did he mention his last name the night before?
Mrs. ODIO. Before they left I asked their names again, and he mentioned their names again.
Mr. LIEBELER. But he did not mention Oswald's name except as Leon?
Mrs. ODIO. On the telephone conversation he referred to him as Leon or American. He said he had been a Marine and he was so interested in helping the Cubans, and he was terrific.
Later on in her testimony it would be pointed out that they did in fact introduce him to her as “Leon Oswald.”
Mr. LIEBELER. But they did in fact, introduce him as Leon Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. And I shook hands with him.
Mr. LIEBELER. That is also what you told Agent Hoary when he interviewed you on December 18, 1963, and that is indicated in his report?
Mrs. ODIO. Oh, yes.
Obviously the comment about him having been in the Marines would match LHO’s background. Ditto the comment of him being “kind of nuts”, LONE NUTS that is per the WC!
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, a report that we have from Agent Hosty indicates that when you told him about Leopoldo's telephone call to you the following day, that you told Agent Hosty that Leopoldo told you he was not going to have anything more to do with Leon Oswald since Leon was considered to be loco?
Mrs. ODIO. That's right. He used two tactics with me, and this I have analyzed. He wanted me to introduce this man. He thought that I had something to do with the underground, with the big operation, and I could get men into Cuba. That is what he thought, which is not true.
When I had no reaction to the American, he thought that he would mention that the man was loco and out of his mind and would be the kind of man that could do anything like getting underground in Cuba, like killing Castro. He repeated several times he was an expert shotman. And he said, "We probably won't have anything to do with him. He is kind of loco."
When he mentioned the fact that we should have killed President Kennedy--and this I recall in my conversation he was trying to play it safe. If I liked him, then he would go along with me, but if I didn't like him, he was kind of retreating to see what my reaction was. It was cleverly done.
Mr. LIEBELER. So he actually played both sides of the fence?
Mrs. ODIO. That's right, both sides of the fence.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Leopoldo tell you that Leon had been in the Armed Forces?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did he tell you about that?
Mrs. ODIO. He said he had been in the Marines. That is what he said.
Leopoldo again implied LHO was “nuts”. Her guess of LHO’s age is off, but her description of his height is pretty much dead on.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now how old would you say Oswald was? Did you form an opinion about that when you saw him at the time?
Mrs. ODIO. No; I have never thought about it. I mean, I never thought how old he was. He seemed to be a young man. I mean, not an old man. I would say he was a young man; yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Could you say how old you thought he was after you saw him that day in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. I can't say that. I can establish in my thoughts; yes, I could establish an age, but I didn't think of it at the time.
Mr. LIEBELER. What age would you establish you thought about it?
Mrs. ODIO. Oh, 34 or 35.
Of course in a court of law you would NOT get three cracks at the same question the witness has just answered. She stated twice she had NEVER thought of it, and yet, he kept asking her to guess.
Mr. LIEBELER. About how tall was he?
Mrs. ODIO. He wasn't too tall. He was maybe 4 inches taller than I am.
Mr. LIEBELER. How tall are you?
Mrs. ODIO. I am 5 feet 6 inches.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you think he was about 5 feet 10?
Mrs. ODIO. Probably.
LHO has been listed as 5’9”, 5’10” and 5’11” so this is pretty accurate.
Mr. LIEBELER About how was he built? Was he a heavy man or a light man?
Mrs. ODIO. He was kind of a skinny man, because the shirt looked big on him, like it was borrowed.
Mr. LIEBELER. Like it was borrowed from somebody else?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes; that is the impression he gave me, because it kind of hung loose.
Mr. LIEBELER. Didn't fit well?
Mrs. ODIO. It didn't fit.
LHO was a slender man. They would eventually move on to her reaction to seeing LHO being arrested and tied to the JFK assassination.
Mr. LIEBELER. When did you first become aware of the fact that this man who had been at your apartment was the man who had been arrested in connection with the assassination?
Mrs. ODIO. It was immediately.
Mr. LIEBELER. As soon as you saw his picture?
Mrs. ODIO. Immediately; I was so sure.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any doubt about it?
Mrs. ODIO. I don't have any doubts.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you have any doubt about it then?
Mrs. ODIO. I kept saying it can't be to myself; it just can't be. I mean it couldn't be, but when my sister walked into the hospital and she said, "Sylvia, have you seen the man?" And I said, "Yes." And she said, "That was the man that was at the door of my house." So I had no doubts then.
She seems firm to me in her ID of LHO. She would be shown a photo of LHO (Bringuier Ex. 1) and asked if she saw anyone familiar.
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Mr. LIEBELER. I show you a photograph that has been marked as Bringuier Exhibit No. 1, and ask you if you can identify anybody in that photograph?
Mrs. ODIO. That is Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER With the X?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you recognize anybody else in the picture?
Mrs. ODIO. No.
They would use this picture and Pizzo 453-B to try and see if anyone pictured with LHO were at her apartment, but she said no. They were NOT the men she saw with him. They would have her look at LHO in Pizzo 453-A&B.
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Mr. LIEBELER. Now, do you recognize Oswald in any of these pictures; in Exhibit No. 453-A?
Mrs. ODIO. [Pointing.]
Mr. LIEBELER. You indicate the man with the green X over his head as being Oswald, and that is the man who was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. He looks a little bit fatter. I don't know if it is the picture. He looked thinner when he was in the apartment, than he looks in this picture. He was kind of drawn when he was there. His face was kind of drawn. But he looks more familiar there. He looks more like he looked that day.
Mr. LIEBELER. In Exhibit No. 453-B, the man with the green line over his head looks more like the man that was in your apartment; is that correct?
Mrs. ODIO. That's correct.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any doubt that that man with the green line over his head in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-B Was the man who was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. Well, if it is not, it is his twin.
They kept going as if this was NOT enough. Onto the Garner exhibit.
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Mr. LIEBELER. Now, I show you a photograph that has been marked Garner Exhibit No. I and ask you if you recognize that man.
Mrs. ODIO. That is Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is that the man who was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you sure?
Mrs. ODIO. He doesn't have the little thing, the little moustache that he had that day. He looks shaved there, and he did not look shaved that day.
What kind of nonsense is this “Are you sure?” stuff? Do they ask Markham, Marina, Bledsoe, Brennan, et. al. this question? I don’t think so. She SOUNDS SURE TO ME, what do you think? This was STILL NOT GOOD ENOUGH THOUGH as off we go to Pizzo 453-C.
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Mr. LIEBELER. Do you think this man in Pizzo Exhibit No. 453-C is Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. Yes; I think that is him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you think that is the man that was in your apartment?
Mrs. ODIO. Well, let me say something. I think this man was the one that was in my apartment. I am not too sure of that picture. He didn't look like this. He was smiling that day. He was more smiling than in this picture.
Despite her saying numerous times that pictures of LHO matched the man at her apartment, save the slight mustache, they still weren’t done! They would move onto MOVIES of LHO now! Again, she would have NO doubts about it being LHO.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, do you have any doubts in your mind after looking at these pictures that the man that was in your apartment was the same man as Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mrs. ODIO. I don't have any doubts.
Immediately after she said this Leibeler said this!
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you want to run the picture once more, John?
NO matter HOW MANY TIMES she said she had NO doubts it was LHO they went onto the next picture or rerunning the movie as IF she had said she was NOT sure. She seemed pretty sure to me and we have her sister’s corroboration. Now, let’s look at how the WC handled this.
Lee J. Rankin would write to J. Edgar Hoover (JEH) requesting him to look into Sylvia Odio’s credibility. You won’t find such a request for ANY OF THE WC’S own witnesses of course. This request can be found in CE-3045 and contains this relevant section:
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Please conduct whatever additional investigation you deem appropriate to determine the possible validity of Mrs. Odio’s testimony. We think it might be in order to determine Mrs. Odio’s veracity in other areas by checking on some of the testimony she gave concerning her background. We note that she claims to be acquainted with Manolo Rey, an anti-Castro leader in Puerto Rico, and that her father is a political prisoner of Fidel Castro.
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Confirmation of her acquaintance with Mr. Rey can be found in CE-3148 as he said to the FBI that “he regards Sylvia Odio to be intelligent, and a person of good character.” He would also confirm that both of her parents were arrested and imprisoned by Castro.
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Of course as we all know the WC discounted her testimony as they had LHO going to Mexico City around this time. They wrote on page 323 of their Report the following:
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Moreover, it did not seem probable that Oswald would speed from New Orleans, spend a short time talking with Sylvia Odio, and then travel from Dallas to Mexico City and back on the bus. Automobile travel in the time available, though perhaps possible, would have been difficult. The Commission noted, however, that if Oswald had reached Dallas on the evening of September 25, he could have traveled by bus to Alice, Tex., and there caught the bus which had left Houston for Laredo at 2:35 a.m. on September 26, 1963. (WCR, 323)
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In typical WC fashion after they said something probably did NOT happen they then told us IT COULD HAVE happened. It would mention NO tickets were sold for their own scenario though, so we should all forget it. The funny part is that the man seen by Odio was with two other men and she said they left by AUTOMOBILE, thus, a bus was not needed since she said Leopoldo said “they” were going on a trip. Furthermore, NO tickets were found showing LHO ever went to Mexico until just weeks before the WC published its work and these were found under highly suspicious circumstances. Plus, the bus manifest has been shown, and admitted to, being fake. There is NO record of LHO travelling by bus as the WC would claim, but they felt comfortable shooting down other ideas.
The other point is the WC made a glib comment that ITS OWN TESTIMONY refuted when it said LHO would not travel to “spend a short time talking with Sylvia Odio”! Why? In her testimony Ms. Odio said LHO, or the man who looked like his “twin”, did NOT do much talking. Leopoldo did the talking for the most part so this comment was glib and UNTRUE based on the WC’s own evidence.
Despite the WC asking the FBI to locate the two men with LHO they NEVER did! The largest investigation in the history of America could NOT find two men per the WC! One man, Loren Eugene Hall, would claim it was him with the other two men, but then later recounted that claim. The other name mentioned by the WC is William Seymour. William Seymour would be named as a participant by the House Select Committee on Assassinations’ (HSCA) Richard E. Sprague in his book, “Taking of America”, many years later. He supposedly looked like LHO too to some degree.
Despite the FBI NOT being able to refute Sylvia Odio in the least the WC would conclude the following:
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While the FBI has not yet completed its investigation into this matter at the time the report went to press, the Commission has concluded that Lee Harvey Oswald was not at Mrs. Odio’s apartment in September, 1963. (WCR, 324)
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In typical WC fashion they wrote something off because it did NOT suit their preconceived, and BIASED, conclusion. They NEVER REFUTED A WORD SYLVIA ODIO said and she and her sister both said the man they saw was either LHO or his twin. Also, the FACT that there was discussion of ASSASSINATING JFK NEVER seemed to trouble the WC in the least. Why not?