Post by Rob Caprio on Aug 21, 2023 20:17:59 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
www.jfklibrary.org/sites/default/files/archives/JFKWHP/1963/Month%2011/Day%2024/JFKWHP-1963-11-24-A/JFKWHP-KN-C30670.jpg
static3.abc.es/media/MM/2017/05/29/6AFWKNK7-k6YD--1343x900@abc.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was the sole assassin of President John F. Kennedy (JFK) on November 22, 1963, but they failed to support this claim with any firm evidence. Furthermore, there were too many odd things going on for this to have been the work of just one man as the WC concluded.
From a ton of Oswald sightings to a myriad of odd things we have seen in this series that it was much more complicated that just one man. This post will look at another possible odd angle to this case that has not been covered before in this long running series (it began in 2011) and is of interest to anyone who has spent time researching this topic.
*********************************************************
An interesting claim that I have not looked at before in this series has received intermittent discussion over the years. It is not a topic that is mentioned much at all and some of the reason for this is the lack of firm evidence, but let's be honest, IF we went with just what had firm evidence to support it, we would have NOTHING to discuss beyond date, time, location and name of the victims. This is because our government has never seen fit to really investigate the death of our 35th President. Why?
I will begin with a quote from the WC's Report (WCR) section on "Rumors and Speculations" regarding the topic for this post. (Honestly the WHOLE WCR was rumors and speculations, but this is what the defenders of the WC use. They totally ignore the twenty-six volumes of evidence.)
Quote on
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0346b.gif
Speculation. — The headquarters detachment of the U.S. Army, under orders [Secretary of Defense Robert S.] McNamara’s office began to rehearse for the funeral more than a week before the assassination.
Commission finding. — This assertion is based on an interview with U.S. Army Capt. Richard C. Cloy, that appeared in the Jackson, Miss., Clarion-Ledger of February 21, 1964. The newspaper quotes Captain Cloy, who was a member of the Army unit charged with conducting funeral ceremonials in the honor of deceased Chiefs of State, as having said that, “we were in a state of readiness and had just finished a funeral rehearsal because there was grave concern for President Hoover’s health. But we never expected that our practice preparing us for President Kennedy. (WCR, p. 668)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0346b.htm
Quote off
This topic was covered in the WC testimony of Professor Revilo Oliver and here is the relevant portion.
Mr. JENNER. Upon what source did you rely in making the statement that the special detachment to which you refer began to rehearse for the funeral a week before the assassination?
Mr. OLIVER. I relied primarily on the interview given by Captain Cloy to the Jackson, Miss., Clarion-Ledger.
Mr. JENNER. Would you show me where in that clipping it says in any respect whatsoever that Captain Cloy made the statement that he and his unit were rehearsing for the funeral of President Kennedy a week in advance of the assassination?
Mr. OLIVER. My first knowledge of the rehearsal came from a letter that I received from someone in Arlington, or Alexandria, informing me that the Army had rehearsed the funeral more than a week before the funeral, I think, I cannot be sure...And that confirmed the statement that a funeral had been rehearsed.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; but not President Kennedy's.
Mr. OLIVER. But it turned out to be that.
Mr. JENNER. The only point I am making, Doctor, is that you will notice in the article that what Captain Cloy says is not what you state in your speech he said, but rather that before the assassination his special unit had been rehearsing for the anticipated possible funeral of President Hoover who was then ill.
Mr. OLIVER. That is right. He said, "We were in a state of readiness and had just finished a funeral rehearsal because there was grave concern for President Hoover's health".
Mr. JENNER. That is not rehearsal for a funeral of President Kennedy a week in advance either of the funeral or of the assassination, is it?
Mr. OLIVER. Presumably, and he implies that all funerals are conducted in the same way. And he goes on to speak of difficulties that his men encountered and how they performed, and that although his command was ready for the state funeral, the actual site of the burial was not known until the day before the ceremony, and so on.
Mr. JENNER. That is not rehearsal for a funeral of President Kennedy a week in advance either of the funeral or of the assassination, is it?
Mr. JENNER. I think if you will read it again, sir, there is a clear implication, if not express statement on your part, that his unit began to rehearse for the funeral a week ahead. Would you read that sentence again, or that series of clauses?
Mr. OLIVER. Yes; "The headquarters detachment of our Army under orders from McNamara's office began to rehearse for the funeral more than a week before the assassination."
Mr. JENNER. Yes; now, that clear implication is that the unit was rehearsing for President Kennedy's funeral because they knew there was going to be a funeral.
Mr. OLIVER. Oh, no; that is not the implication. I certainly would not imply that the unit knew it, because Cloy states specifically that they did not. They were told that it was a rehearsal for the anticipated demise of President Hoover.
You get the gist of the testimony by now. Professor Oliver gave a speech and mentioned this, but the WC said that Captain Cloy said they were rehearsing for the funeral of Hoover due to “grave concern for his health.” Was this the truth or just a cover-up for the truth which was they were practicing for JFK’s funeral a full week before he was killed?
One way to see if Captain Cloy’s claim has any validity is to search about Herbert Hoover’s health. I see he died on October 20, 1964, at the age of 90. He supposedly had some illnesses before his final death, but I can’t find anything that shows he was in grave danger of dying around November 15, 1963. Sure, at 89, he had some illnesses, but nothing that seemed to cause “grave concern” for his death shortly as Captain Cloy said. In CE 1803 (FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover Letter to WC General Counsel J. Lee Rankin dated September 4, 1964.) we see that Captain Cloy also said, “We were preparing the actual funeral arrangements less than an hour after the President was shot ”.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pages/WH_Vol23_0228a.gif
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pages/WH_Vol23_0228b.gif
CE 1803: www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pdf/WH23_CE_1803.pdf
Another strange event tied to this is the death of Captain Michael Groves who was the commander of "The Old Guard" of the Honor Guard Company. It was under his command that JFK's final honors at Arlington National Cemetery were planned and carried out. Then on December 3, 1963, while he was eating a pained look came over his face and he fell face down in his plate and died instantly. The official ruling was "heart attack", but Groves was only 27-years-old and had to be in tip-top shape to be in the United States Army.
So, one has to wonder IF he was poisoned. The weird story continues with the fact that on December 12, 1963, his possessions -- which had been sent to his home in Birmingham, Michigan, were destroyed in a fire of mysterious origin. Clearly, anyone with any semblance of rational thinking would begin to suspect something was going on here.
What did Captain Groves see and/or hear that made him dangerous? Was it simply that he knew ahead of time what was going to happen to JFK (his honor guard didn't have to know the real reason for the practice as they could have been told this was for President Hoover) and this made him expendable? What do you think?
Here is a newspaper article about Groves' death.
i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/04/cd/ae04cde6f30ed390395bb6802cd26184.jpg
Once more we see a very questionable event that was NEVER looked into by the WC, thus, their conclusion cannot be correct since they ignored so many leads and evidence and this means that their conclusion is sunk yet again.
www.jfklibrary.org/sites/default/files/archives/JFKWHP/1963/Month%2011/Day%2024/JFKWHP-1963-11-24-A/JFKWHP-KN-C30670.jpg
static3.abc.es/media/MM/2017/05/29/6AFWKNK7-k6YD--1343x900@abc.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was the sole assassin of President John F. Kennedy (JFK) on November 22, 1963, but they failed to support this claim with any firm evidence. Furthermore, there were too many odd things going on for this to have been the work of just one man as the WC concluded.
From a ton of Oswald sightings to a myriad of odd things we have seen in this series that it was much more complicated that just one man. This post will look at another possible odd angle to this case that has not been covered before in this long running series (it began in 2011) and is of interest to anyone who has spent time researching this topic.
*********************************************************
An interesting claim that I have not looked at before in this series has received intermittent discussion over the years. It is not a topic that is mentioned much at all and some of the reason for this is the lack of firm evidence, but let's be honest, IF we went with just what had firm evidence to support it, we would have NOTHING to discuss beyond date, time, location and name of the victims. This is because our government has never seen fit to really investigate the death of our 35th President. Why?
I will begin with a quote from the WC's Report (WCR) section on "Rumors and Speculations" regarding the topic for this post. (Honestly the WHOLE WCR was rumors and speculations, but this is what the defenders of the WC use. They totally ignore the twenty-six volumes of evidence.)
Quote on
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0346b.gif
Speculation. — The headquarters detachment of the U.S. Army, under orders [Secretary of Defense Robert S.] McNamara’s office began to rehearse for the funeral more than a week before the assassination.
Commission finding. — This assertion is based on an interview with U.S. Army Capt. Richard C. Cloy, that appeared in the Jackson, Miss., Clarion-Ledger of February 21, 1964. The newspaper quotes Captain Cloy, who was a member of the Army unit charged with conducting funeral ceremonials in the honor of deceased Chiefs of State, as having said that, “we were in a state of readiness and had just finished a funeral rehearsal because there was grave concern for President Hoover’s health. But we never expected that our practice preparing us for President Kennedy. (WCR, p. 668)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0346b.htm
Quote off
This topic was covered in the WC testimony of Professor Revilo Oliver and here is the relevant portion.
Mr. JENNER. Upon what source did you rely in making the statement that the special detachment to which you refer began to rehearse for the funeral a week before the assassination?
Mr. OLIVER. I relied primarily on the interview given by Captain Cloy to the Jackson, Miss., Clarion-Ledger.
Mr. JENNER. Would you show me where in that clipping it says in any respect whatsoever that Captain Cloy made the statement that he and his unit were rehearsing for the funeral of President Kennedy a week in advance of the assassination?
Mr. OLIVER. My first knowledge of the rehearsal came from a letter that I received from someone in Arlington, or Alexandria, informing me that the Army had rehearsed the funeral more than a week before the funeral, I think, I cannot be sure...And that confirmed the statement that a funeral had been rehearsed.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; but not President Kennedy's.
Mr. OLIVER. But it turned out to be that.
Mr. JENNER. The only point I am making, Doctor, is that you will notice in the article that what Captain Cloy says is not what you state in your speech he said, but rather that before the assassination his special unit had been rehearsing for the anticipated possible funeral of President Hoover who was then ill.
Mr. OLIVER. That is right. He said, "We were in a state of readiness and had just finished a funeral rehearsal because there was grave concern for President Hoover's health".
Mr. JENNER. That is not rehearsal for a funeral of President Kennedy a week in advance either of the funeral or of the assassination, is it?
Mr. OLIVER. Presumably, and he implies that all funerals are conducted in the same way. And he goes on to speak of difficulties that his men encountered and how they performed, and that although his command was ready for the state funeral, the actual site of the burial was not known until the day before the ceremony, and so on.
Mr. JENNER. That is not rehearsal for a funeral of President Kennedy a week in advance either of the funeral or of the assassination, is it?
Mr. JENNER. I think if you will read it again, sir, there is a clear implication, if not express statement on your part, that his unit began to rehearse for the funeral a week ahead. Would you read that sentence again, or that series of clauses?
Mr. OLIVER. Yes; "The headquarters detachment of our Army under orders from McNamara's office began to rehearse for the funeral more than a week before the assassination."
Mr. JENNER. Yes; now, that clear implication is that the unit was rehearsing for President Kennedy's funeral because they knew there was going to be a funeral.
Mr. OLIVER. Oh, no; that is not the implication. I certainly would not imply that the unit knew it, because Cloy states specifically that they did not. They were told that it was a rehearsal for the anticipated demise of President Hoover.
You get the gist of the testimony by now. Professor Oliver gave a speech and mentioned this, but the WC said that Captain Cloy said they were rehearsing for the funeral of Hoover due to “grave concern for his health.” Was this the truth or just a cover-up for the truth which was they were practicing for JFK’s funeral a full week before he was killed?
One way to see if Captain Cloy’s claim has any validity is to search about Herbert Hoover’s health. I see he died on October 20, 1964, at the age of 90. He supposedly had some illnesses before his final death, but I can’t find anything that shows he was in grave danger of dying around November 15, 1963. Sure, at 89, he had some illnesses, but nothing that seemed to cause “grave concern” for his death shortly as Captain Cloy said. In CE 1803 (FBI Director J. Edgar Hoover Letter to WC General Counsel J. Lee Rankin dated September 4, 1964.) we see that Captain Cloy also said, “We were preparing the actual funeral arrangements less than an hour after the President was shot ”.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pages/WH_Vol23_0228a.gif
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pages/WH_Vol23_0228b.gif
CE 1803: www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pdf/WH23_CE_1803.pdf
Another strange event tied to this is the death of Captain Michael Groves who was the commander of "The Old Guard" of the Honor Guard Company. It was under his command that JFK's final honors at Arlington National Cemetery were planned and carried out. Then on December 3, 1963, while he was eating a pained look came over his face and he fell face down in his plate and died instantly. The official ruling was "heart attack", but Groves was only 27-years-old and had to be in tip-top shape to be in the United States Army.
So, one has to wonder IF he was poisoned. The weird story continues with the fact that on December 12, 1963, his possessions -- which had been sent to his home in Birmingham, Michigan, were destroyed in a fire of mysterious origin. Clearly, anyone with any semblance of rational thinking would begin to suspect something was going on here.
What did Captain Groves see and/or hear that made him dangerous? Was it simply that he knew ahead of time what was going to happen to JFK (his honor guard didn't have to know the real reason for the practice as they could have been told this was for President Hoover) and this made him expendable? What do you think?
Here is a newspaper article about Groves' death.
i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/04/cd/ae04cde6f30ed390395bb6802cd26184.jpg
Once more we see a very questionable event that was NEVER looked into by the WC, thus, their conclusion cannot be correct since they ignored so many leads and evidence and this means that their conclusion is sunk yet again.