Post by Rob Caprio on Oct 21, 2023 20:03:46 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2025
www.harveyandlee.net/Ryder/rifle_4.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) had to treat all the sightings of Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) in the weeks leading up to the assassination as “mistakes” by witnesses, and in all fairness the real LHO was accounted for at work in a number of these sightings, otherwise, it opened the door to more unsavory things.
These things of course were impersonation and conspiracy. This was something the WC could NOT entertain in the least. Thus, this topic shows how the WC did NOT go where the evidence led, but rather how they would IGNORE their own evidence to reach a conclusion they had worked out ahead of time. This shows they were NOT searching for the truth no matter where it led, but rather they were trying to cover up the truth with a preconceived conclusion worked out in advance.
In this series I will look at some of these events over time. This posts will deal with the issue of a man coming into a gun shop two to three weeks before President John F. Kennedy’s (JFK) murder to have a scope mounted on his high-powered rifle. Let’s see how the WC dealt with this one.
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Dial Ryder was an employee of the Irving Sports Shop and he said a man came in two to three weeks before the assassination to have work done on his rifle. He asked Ryder to “drill and tap” the weapon so a telescopic sight could be added to it.
[Note: IF we believe the order form the WC gave us as evidence then this was totally unneeded as the rifle LHO allegedly ordered CAME with a scope already attached. One could say the scope that came with it was broken or had fallen off, but why did the man then need the “drill and tap” for a scope when Ryder could have used the same holes already there? Furthermore, if this work was done just two to three weeks before November 22, 1963, why was the scope loose when found and required shims to be added to stabilize it? What would LHO have been doing with his rifle to cause this issue in such a short amount of time?
We are asked to believe he buried it after shooting at retired General Edwin Walker with NO damage, but we are left to believe IF we support the claim of Ryder (and it is corroborated) that in two to three weeks the newly added scope came loose?]
This request caused Ryder to fill out a repair tag and he put the name of the man given to him—Oswald. Of course this was NOT to the liking of the WC so they brought Ryder’s boss before them to clear this up. Let’s look at the relevant portions of his testimony regarding this issue.
Repair tag:
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pages/WH_Vol20_0024a.jpg
NY Times article:
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pages/WH_Vol20_0024b.jpg
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you the owner and operator of the Irving Sports Shop located at 221 East Irving Boulevard in Irving?
Mr. GREENER.. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is Dial D. Ryder one of your employees?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long have you known Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Approximately 6 years.
Mr. LIEBELER. Has he been employed by you here at the shop practically all that time?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
This shows us Ryder had been an employee of Charles Greener for about six years. This is more than enough time to know what kind of employee and person he was.
Mr. LIEBELER. We have a repair tag that has the number 18374 on it and the name Oswald, indicating some repairs were to be made to a rifle. We will mark this picture as Exhibit No. 1, on your deposition. I show you a picture of this tag and ask you if that is a tag of the type that you use here in this shop?
Mr. GREENER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you ever seen that tag before?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember the first time that you ever saw it?
Mr. GREENER. Approximately a week or less after the assassination was the first time I had seen it. That was on Thanksgiving Day, I guess, because they called me at home and I was eating and I met some of the news media to go through this Thanksgiving.
After going over how the media heard of this before the FBI even came, and mentioning how Walter Cronkite was rushing to put out a retraction BEFORE the whole story was even known (again, because this did NOT look good to the WC’s conclusion), they moved on to this.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was after the story had already been out in the newspaper, is that right?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. This reporter came in and wanted to talk to Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Right. The paper stated the owner of the Irving Sports Shop, and he apparently figured that was the correct information.
Of course, all the newspapers, they didn't check out any stories; they just run to their office and sent it in, as you well know. No one checked out anything. Anything they could get hold of, they put in print, and some of the information they got a hold, I don't know where it came from.
Sure, newspapers NEVER check anything they put into print! They like being sued, I guess! The real irony here is the WC is not stopping him or correcting him, but rather letting him make it seem as if the newspaper made it all up!
They were obsessed with the media knowing before the FBI about this and that says a lot about the investigation the FBI did, huh?
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any reason to believe that any reporter talked to Ryder prior to the time the FBI came to your shop?
Mr. GREENER. One told me he did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember that reporter's name?
Mr. GREENER. No; he was with the Times Herald.
Mr. LIEBELER. Dallas Times Herald?
Mr. GREENER. I couldn't swear.
Mr. LIEBELER. He told you he talked to Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Ryder told me he hadn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Ryder told you the reporter had not talked to him?
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Mr. GREENER. Had not talked to him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did the reporter tell you when he had talked to Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. He told me that he talked to him earlier in the morning. I don't know when that was. I am inclined to believe, to the best of my knowledge, it was Thanksgiving Day. Now I could be wrong on that. My recollection is that this story first came out--I am thinking it came out on Thanksgiving Day.
Remember how the WC jumped to the conclusion that the newsman was right and that Ryder was wrong (i.e. that Ryder was lying to his boss about this) later on.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have here a clipping from the New York Times of November 29, 1963, which appears to be one of the first times that this story was released in the New York papers at any rate, November 29, 1963. Mr. GREENER. What was Thanksgiving Day?
Mr. LIEBELER. Let the record show that the newspaper clipping that I previously referred to is from the New York Times of November 29, 1963, and the story is entitled, "Gunsmith Attached Sight for Man Named Oswald," and it is a story written by Mr. John Herbers, and it has been marked as Exhibit No. 2, on Mr. Greener's deposition.
Mr. LIEBELER. I am trying to find out at what time this story first broke, whether the FBI had been here at the shop to ask any questions before the story came out in the newspapers?
Mr. GREENER. As I recall, no. None of the law enforcing agencies had been by previous to that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your impression is that he came here because they saw the story in the paper?
Mr. GREENER. That is my idea. Either that, or they were informed by the news reporters.
So the largest investigation in the history of America needed the newspaper reporters to lead them to this? Ryder always said he did NOT speak with any newspaper reporter.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you discuss this question with Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Yes; I did. And he said he had not talked to a newspaper reporter about it.
Mr. LIEBELER. At all?
Mr. GREENER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you never had any opportunity or occasion to ask Ryder whether a reporter or, or whether Ryder contacted a reporter, because he simply denied talking to a reporter?
Mr. GREENER. No.
It is apparent even to the most benign reader that the WC simply would NOT accept the statement that Ryder did NOT call the media or speak with them as they continually tried to think of new ways to ask the SAME question over and over.
Like this.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Ryder ever indicate to you that he had talked to a newspaper reporter about this?
Mr. GREENER. No; he did not.
They then tried to fix the date of the man’s visit.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you fix the date?
Mr. GREENER. No; no way in the world. In the first place, I wasn't here. I feel sure I wasn't here at the time this went on. I was gone from--I don't remember what day I left. I started hunting in South Dakota on November 2, and we came back somewhere between the 12th and 14th.
Mr. LIEBELER. What makes you feel that you weren't here at the time this tag was made up?
Mr. GREENER. Well, in checking around, I feel like possibly that I would have noticed it on the gunrack. I would--I don't know whether I would or not, because I do some of the repair work myself, and a lot of times I go through the guns on the rack to be repaired, and if it is something I can do, I take care of it. If he is busy, then I take care of it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Ryder, you mean?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you have no recollection of this tag?
Mr. GREENER. None whatsoever, until, I believe, it was the day on Thanksgiving when they came down here. Now, I believe this has been a long time and we are going into phases of this I hadn't thought of in a long time it seems to me that the FBI got ahold of him and they come down scouring through the place. That was very possible after the newspaper report broke. It could have been before, but it seems to me that that is when the tag appeared. I believe it was an FBI man who was out here checking.
Again, it makes one wonder, why he was called to discuss this since he was NOT there and had NO recollection of the tag at all. Ryder says in is his testimony that a reporter called on the morning of Thanksgiving, early like 7:30 or 8:00 a.m., and he hung up on him when he identified himself and said what he wanted. (XI, p. 224)
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Mr. LIEBELER. Your impression now is that the FBI man was here when the tag was found?
Mr. GREENER. That is my impression; yes.
It seems odd to me since this story had ‘broke’ already that the place would need ‘scouring’ for the tag since it probably would have been front and center. We will also see the FBI had NO interest in taking this tag either when they spoke with Ryder.
Next, we get a summary from the WC lawyer about the possibilities of this tag.
Mr. LIEBELER. As we discussed briefly off the record before we started, it appears that there are three possibilities concerning this tag. One, in view of the fact that Mr. Ryder is quite clear in his own mind that he never worked on an Italian rifle similar to the one that was found in the Texas School Book Depository, we can conclude either that the Oswald on the tag was Lee Oswald and he brought a different rifle in here, or it was a different Oswald who brought another rifle in here, or that the tag is not a genuine tag, and that there never was a man who came in here with any gun at all. Can you think of any other possibilities?
Mr. GREENER. That about covers the situation, it looks to me like.
This summary hardly covers it all as there is another possibility and that is SOMEONE OTHER THAN OSWALD brought in a rifle other than the alleged murder weapon. Why is the WC NOT thinking of this? Because that leads down the road to conspiracy and that can’t be.
Now remember how the WC kept making it sound like Ryder would not tell the truth to Mr. Greener? Look at this.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any opinion as to what the real situation is?
Mr. GREENER. Nothing more than I have confidence in the boy, or I wouldn't have him working for me.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't think he would make this tag up to cause a lot of commotion?
Mr. GREENER. I don't think so. He doesn't seem like that type boy. I have lots of confidence in him or I wouldn't have him working for me and handling money. Especially times I am going off. He if he wasn't the right kind of boy, and he pretty well proved he is by dependability and in all the relations that we have together, and I just don't figure that is possible. Now I say I don't figure that. Of course, there is always possibilities of everything, but I don't feel that way.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't feel Ryder would do that?
Mr. GREENER. Not at all; no.
Why was Ryder being treated as though he was a SUSPECT instead of a witness by the WC? They were out to PROVE his statement wrong instead of seeing where it led. Is this how you run an honest investigation?
Speaking of running an honest investigation, let’s look at this.
Mr. LIEBELER. When we look at this tag, it appears in the photograph that it is in two parts. There is a top part entitled "Repair Tag," on which writing pears, reading "Oswald, drill and tap, $4.50. Boresight, $1.50." Or a total of $6. And it appears at the lower part of the tag; it is in the form of a claim check; isn't that correct?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Has the FBI or Dallas Police Department ever shown you pictures and asked you to identify them?
Mr. GREENER. No; they haven't shown me pictures of anyone for identification.
It seems the DPD and FBI were so disinterested in this they didn’t even bother to show Greener any pictures of LHO to determine if this was him or not!
After running through a series of photographs of LHO and having Greener saying he did NOT look familiar (probably to the delight of the WC) they ran into this.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you recognize that man in the picture?
Mr. GREENER. According to the other pictures in the paper, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who does it look like to you?
Mr. GREENER. It looks like Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you don't ever remember having seen him?
Mr. GREENER. No; my mental pictures are not hardly as good as it used to be. You take fooling with people day in and day out, without some reason to recognize them, the next time you see them--there is a reason for it, you don't make a mental picture of every person that comes in. If he was 6'6" and weighed 300 pounds, or gave you some trouble when he comes for his merchandise, then it is likely you would remember, but a guy just comes in and tells you what he wants done, and comes back, and gets his merchandise and doesn't give you any trouble, then you don't remember. Usually I never forget a face. Now, the first picture you showed me, there was something there, but I couldn't pin it to anything, though.
My first question is, why did they keep asking if he was the man when he said this earlier in his testimony?
GREENER. In the first place, I wasn't here. I feel sure I wasn't here at the time this went on. I was gone from--I don't remember what day I left. I started hunting in South Dakota on November 2, and we came back somewhere between the 12th and 14th.
He clearly said he was NOT there when the man came in for the work on the rifle, and yet, the WC spent nearly a page of testimony getting him to see if the man looked like LHO or not.
We also know the rifle in question was NOT an Italian made one LHO has been accused of owning.
Mr. LIEBELER. Both of them, please. These are pictures of a rifle. I would like to have you examine it and tell me whether you have ever seen that rifle or one similar to it.
Mr. GREENER. No; I don't remember this rifle at all. The first Italian rifle that I remember seeing was in Worland, Wyo. A friend pulled his out, and that is the first Italian rifle that I ever recall having seen.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was that subsequent to the assassination?
Mr. GREENER. That was while we were on the trip.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember ever having seen a rifle like this in the shop here?
Mr. GREENER. No; I sure don't.
I love this stuff here.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you made any attempt on your own part to try to figure out how this tag came to be in your shop?
Mr. GREENER. No; really I haven't inquired any at all on that. I inquired about the reporter deal, but I didn't inquire into anything at all about the tag, because I just assumed it was all open and above board and didn't go into it at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now we have talked previously about the three possibilities that could possibly explain this tag, and you have told us that you don't think that Ryder is the kind of guy who would write the tag up after the fact just to cause a commotion.
There are two other possibilities. One, was that Lee Oswald had a different rifle in here. And the other is that there is a different Oswald involved. Do you have any opinion as to which of those possibilities might be correct?
Mr. GREENER. No; it would just be a---
Mr. LIEBELER. Wild speculation?
Mr. GREENER. Very wild. Very wild speculation.
The WC would know about “wild speculation”, wouldn’t they? Again, they left the very viable fourth possibility out of the equation – someone impersonating LHO brought in a different rifle. I wonder why?
Again, Greener spoke up for Ryder.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, you have known the boy a long time and you should be in a position to make that kind of judgment?
Mr. GREENER. That is what he is. He has been a mighty fine boy and he is just an extraordinary boy. There is not many like him, and I would trust him with anything that I have to be done, and it just never struck me as him being that kind of boy.
Remember, the WC claimed LHO ordered the alleged murder weapon from Klein’s with a scope and then used said rifle to gun down the president of the United States in a very difficult shooting feat. What does this man, Greener, think of the rifle in question? Here the WC asked him for his EXPERT opinion and this is what he said.
Mr. LIEBELER. In your opinion, based on your experience in this field, do you think that a rifle that had been purchased from a mail-order house that is shipped through the mails with a scope mounted on it would be in a condition to fire accurately at that point without any further sighting in of the rifle by firing it?
Mr. GREENER. The possibility of it being, especially with this frail mount is, I am sure that that mount, according to what little information I have, the possibility of it being real accurate would be pretty small, I think.
I think the gun would be I think even a fellow that was going to go deer hunting would want to take the gun out and shoot it before he went hunting, and I think that holds very true with this case, regardless of whether we mounted the scope or who mounted it or it come mounted. I think the man would fire it before using it.
Mr. LIEBELER. You feel that because you don't think that a rifle would be able to be fired accurately unless it had been sighted?
Mr. GREENER. The possibility would be small that it would be real accurate; and you talk to most any of the fellows that go hunting, regardless of how expensive a mount they may have on the gun, he is going to take it and fire it before he goes hunting. That holds true in 99 percent of the cases.
The only reason not to would be the fact the man was in a real big hurry, he picked it up late in the afternoon and he was going to Colorado and was getting there after the season and he was going to shoot and just take his chances. Otherwise, he would take the gun out and fire it, 99 out of 100, and fire it.
Here we see what an expert has said about the mount (i.e. scope) in question on CE-139 -- that “the possibility of it being real accurate would be pretty small, I think.” So much for the official conclusion, huh? He also said if you don’t go out and sight it your chances are even worse. When did LHO go out to sight his rifle? The ONLY times we see he was at shooting ranges show us it was NOT LHO at all. So, when did he sight his scope before the assassination?
What about the ammo for the M-C in question? Greener said this and this burst the bubble of the WC’s claims.
Mr. LIEBELER. That would have to be done, as you have indicated, even if the rifle had been boresighted?
Mr. GREENER. That's right. It would be accurate as far as elevation. The windage part is usually right on target, but the elevation has to do with caliber.
As far as your 6.5 Italian gun is concerned, there is only two types. One is the hand load, and one is the military ammunition. Because there is none of the major ammunition manufacturers that builds a sporting load for that gun, so it either has to be a hand load or old Italian or military ammunition, and the hand load has to do with what size bullet and the power you get, and it would be more important on that gun to shoot it than it would any other caliber or of an American make that you get your larger manufacturers of ammunition loading for.
Since NO hand loading equipment was ever found for LHO we are left with the option of military ammunition and as researcher Stewart Galanor showed years ago the LAST TIME ANY AMMO WAS MANUFACTURED FOR THE Italian military was 1944! How accurate and reliable could this ammo be in 1963?
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you need a particular kind of equipment to reload shells?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Very definitely.
Mr. LIEBELER. Does the equipment vary with the caliber of the shell?
Mr. GREENER. Very definitely. The presses usually will accept all the different calibers, and then you have to have your die sets.
Now, let's look at a few parts of Ryder's testimony. Here is the relevant portion regarding the ticket. Notice how he says LHO looked like the majority of men in that part of the country.
Mr. RYDER. Not as far as I know. I was interviewed by the FBI and Dallas Police Department and I believe a couple Secret Service men came out.
Mr. LIEBELER. Which one of those interviewed you first?
Mr. RYDER. The FBI was the first one out.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember what the date was when the FBI first interviewed you?
Mr. RYDER. It was on Monday, the day of the funeral of President Kennedy.
Mr. LIEBELER. That would have been November 25. Friday was the 22d, Saturday would be the 23d, Sunday the 24th, Monday the 25th. Do you remember the name of the FBI man?
Mr. RYDER. Mr. Horton.
Mr. LIEBELER. Horton [spelling] E-m-o-r-y E. H-o-r-t-o-n?
Mr. RYDER. I didn't get his first name. His last name stuck with me well, I don't know why; it just stayed there.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did Mr. Horton say to you and what did you say to him, to the best of your recollection?
Mr. RYDER. Of course, we were closed on that Monday.
Mr. LIEBELER. The Irving Sports Shop was closed?
Mr. RYDER. Right, and he came to the house, so, at that time he showed me pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald and pictures of the gun and asked me about it. I said "Well, the face and the body features of Oswald there was real common in this country." I mean, you know, in this area in Texas and that to say that I had him in the shop, actually, this was after a period of time that we boiled it down to. Oh, I told him I had a ticket with the name Oswald, no date, no address, just for drilling and tapping and boresighting--no address, or name: he didn't say he'd like to see the ticket and was looking at the pictures, then I seen the gun. Of course, from the picture I told him as far as I could remember I told him I hadn't mounted that scope, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER. You based that statement that you had not mounted the scope on your recollection that you had not worked on that particular kind of rifle, is that correct?
Mr. RYDER. Right, on this Italian rifle I never worked on them. I seen them but as far as doing any physical work, I haven't done none even to this date, I haven't worked on any of them.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are absolutely sure about that?
Mr. RYDER. I am positive on that, very positive. So, we went up to the Irving Sports Shop and I opened it up and got the ticket and showed him. It was just a little repair ticket actually what it amounted to.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did it have a number on it?
Mr. RYDER. Yes, sir; I don't remember the number.
So that is the background, but look at what happened when he offered the ticket, evidence one would think, to FBI Agent Horton.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you give the tag to Mr. Horton?
Mr. RYDER. No; he told us to hold on to it, keep it and they would probably get it later on and they did. It seems to me like it was 2 or 3 weeks ago they came and got it now.
What? The FBI and DPD confiscated other things like LHO’s shower shoes, pay stubs, Ruth Paine’s slide projector and 78rpm record collection immediately, but they were NOT interested in a repair tag for a rifle with the name “Oswald” on it? It took them to late February or early March 1964 to come back for it. Can anything else show how little interested they were in this part of the case? Even the WC seemed surprised by this revelation.
Mr. LIEBELER. Just 2 or 3 weeks ago?
Mr. RYDER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did that tag indicate the nature of the work that was to be done?
Mr. RYDER. Well, actually, all it had on it was drill and tapping; it said drill and tap and a price of $4.50, I believe it was and boresight, of course, no charge on that, so by us charging $1.50 a hole that's what we normally charge for drillin' and tappin'--would on this particular thing, would have been three holes drill and tap, where in the picture of the gun there was only two screws holding the mount of the scope on which is, more or less, made it positive we hadn't mounted it on the gun, so Mr. Horton, so he took it for granted that I hadn't done the work on it and I am sure I haven't because—
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of gun was it?
Mr. RYDER. It was a 6.5 Italian.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know the make?
Mr. RYDER. Like I say, I have seen several of them but as far as who made the gun, I don't know; probably some Italian gun manufacturer but as far as who it was, I don't know. I can't read Italian.
Here Ryder is saying it was an Italian rifle and that it needed a scope, but didn’t the WC claim LHO ordered a rifle with a scope already? What happened to that one? Later on, though they would say it was NOT an Italian rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER. The Italian rifle. Do you have any recollection of the kind of rifle that this Oswald tag referred to?
Mr. RYDER. No, sir; I don't. That's another-place where we did--in other words, I did so many and I was so rushed that I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to what tag was to have such and such a scope put on. That is where actually our fall-down went on the thing.
Mr. LIEBELER. There is no indication on the tag as to what kind of rifle it would be?
Mr. RYDER. No, sir.
So we are back to being unsure, but this seems interesting.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you helped at all by the fact that the tag indicates that three holes were drilled? Do you ordinarily drill three holes on all rifles?
Mr. RYDER. We boiled it down to this: That there are two type bases used that have three. The Redfield base and the Buehler base and then, actually, these could go on any gun that you want. In other words, if a man bought a Redfield or Buehler base they can be adapted to any gun with three holes. Now any imported, we couldn't say definitely if it was imported because the Springfield O3A3 requires three holes; the British 303 requires three holes. These are guns they use and that's the only ones we could think of offhand that would require just three holes, so we boiled it down, it was either Buehler, Redfield base or with the Weaver base being on the Springfield O3A3.
Mr. LIEBELER. Or the 303 British rifle?
Mr. RYDER. Yes.
The topic quickly changed after this comment. Why? I can’t say for sure, but I do know one other participant that is known in this story—Wes Frazier—owned a British Enfield rifle. Was that why they wanted a change so quickly? Here Ryder says the alleged murder weapon had already been fitted for a scope.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember her name?
Mr. RYDER. I sure don't. She, in turn, called Klein's and found out the rifle that was used in the assassination had already been drilled and tapped. In other words, he had bought the scope and rifle from Klein's and they were shipped together and all he had to do was attach it to this particular gun. In other words, the one he used in the assassination. Of course, they order by serial number.
Mr. LIEBELER. You also testified you did not mount any scope on an Italian rifle?
Mr. RYDER. Right.
This portion pretty much sums it up.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, as far as outside of the shop is concerned, you see, I'm troubled to some extent because I have before me a report of the agent from the Secret Service and a report from the agent of the FBI. One report says you are quite sure you have seen and talked to Oswald and the other one says you are quite sure you have not seen him. I am puzzled by those statements.
Mr. RYDER. Like I continue to say all the way through on their investigation, both that Secret Service man and from the FBI that he could have been in the shop; I could have talked to him but to say I had definitely, I couldn't say I have really talked to him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Could you say you definitely have ever seen him outside of the shop anyplace?
Mr. RYDER. No, sir; I don't believe I have. I mean I couldn't say specific because back again to the common features, so on and so forth, but, actually, we have drawn a conclusion, of course, that is, I and the boys and people concerned at the sport shop there that it was either this Oswald with another gun or another Oswald with another gun. We know definitely that it was another gun. We know that for sure.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you have already carefully considered the possibility of identifying that other gun but you are not able to do it?
Mr. RYDER. Right; Mr. Greener called all the other Oswalds listed in the Dallas and Irving directories.
Mr. LIEBELER. He did that?
Mr. RYDER. Right, with no avail; in other words, nothing turned up.
Mr. LIEBELER Whose handwriting does the name Oswald appear to be written in?
Mr. RYDER. It's mine.
Mr. LIEBELER. It is your own handwriting?
Mr. RYDER. It is my Own handwriting; the whole thing was written up by me.
Ryder would be called again on April 1, 1964, and on July 23, 1964, and the same details were presented. Why was the WC so determined to show he was wrong when he would be corroborated by other witnesses? As he said, they knew for sure it was ANOTHER rifle left for work, thus, it could NOT be the LHO we know as he was accused of owning ONLY a M-C.
So we see the possibility of LHO doing this himself is out the window. The next phase of this saga happens just hours after LHO is shot dead. If you go to CE 1334 you will see a FBI memo outlining a call to them about this tag. It says the following.
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At 6:30 P.M., on November 24, 1963, an anonymous male caller telephonically advised a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation at Dallas, Texas, that at 5:30 P.M. he learned from an unidentified sack boy at Wyatt’s Supermarket, Plymouth Park Shopping Center, Irving, Texas, that LEE HARVEY OSWALD, on Thursday, November 21, 1963, had his rifle sighted at the Irving Sports Shop, 221 East Irving Blvd., Irving, Texas. He said he could furnish so no further details concerning this matter and does not know it if is true or how the boy found out this information. (CE 1334, p. 1)
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Who was this caller and who was this boy? Why were they trying to put the FBI on this trail just hours after LHO was shot dead?
Another anonymous call would be placed to Ray John of the television news department of WFAA-TV in Dallas. He would tell the FBI that he recalled having “received a telephone call sometime between 3:00 and 3:30 p.m. of that day [November 24] from an anonymous male caller, who stated that he believed ‘Oswald’ had had a rifle sighted at a gun shop located in the 200 block on Irving Boulevard in Irving.” Who was making these calls? Who was hot to have the FBI and media move on this trail? Why did these calls NOT spark interest in the FBI? Remember, Greener said the media came BEFORE the FBI did.
The WC would conclude that “NO other person by the name of Oswald in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area has been found who had a rifle repaired at the Irving Sports Shop.” (WCR, p. 316) This still did NOT mean someone who was NOT named Oswald could have taken a rifle into the shop and claimed his name was Oswald. Again, the sole purpose of the WC from the beginning was to put this story to rest and conclude it had NOTHING to do with LHO. It would state that “Neither Ryder nor Greener claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald had ever been a customer in the Irving Sports Shop. Neither has any recollection of either Oswald or his Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, nor does either recall the transaction allegedly represented by the repair tag or the person for whom the repair was supposedly made.” (WCR, p. 316)
First of all, Greener testified to the fact he was NOT even there when this man came in so, why is he included at all? Secondly, it was stated in his testimony that the rifle the man supposedly brought in was NOT an Italian rifle so the fact they did not remember a M-C means nothing. Thirdly, IF the man was really LHO would this have been easy for them to remember since he became famous worldwide after November 22, 1963? I would think so, so to me, the FACT they can’t remember the man and what he looked like proves to me it was NOT the real LHO and that a man was impersonating him and leaving a trail. Finally, as I said earlier, the alleged murder weapon (which has NO evidentiary trail to LHO by the way) had a scope mounted per the WC so, why would LHO need to have another scope mounted?
Ryder would be quoted by the WC saying that when he was shown a photograph of LHO at his deposition, he testified to knowing the picture was of LHO, “as the pictures in the paper, but as far as seeing the guy personally, I don’t think I ever have.” (WCR, p. 316) This seals it for me, and it should have sealed it for the WC – the man who claimed to be LHO was NOT LHO. The WC couldn’t have that though as that meant someone was going around impersonating LHO and who would do this to a “lone nut”? So, the WC did what it usually did in these matters—it tried to discredit Ryder. It claimed he lied when he said he had NOT talked to any reporters before the story appeared in the Dallas Times-Herald and used the Secret Service (SS) for this task by saying he had told them at his deposition that he was “misquoted” by the paper. It then claimed that a reporter from the above paper had called him at home and obtained all the details for the story from him, but the WC never believed Ryder’s side of the story as they took the side of the reporter instead (even though Greener said they just print whatever they want without checking it!).
Despite Ryder swearing that he wrote the tag with LHO’s name, and his boss, Charles Greener, saying Ryder was honest and the tag was authentic the WC would write: “Investigation has revealed that the authenticity of the repair tag bearing the name of Oswald’s name is indeed subject to grave doubts.” (WCR, p. 315)
As we will see in the next installment in this series Ryder would have corroboration for his claim and that the WC was well aware of it but chose to discredit it instead.
www.harveyandlee.net/Ryder/rifle_4.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) had to treat all the sightings of Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) in the weeks leading up to the assassination as “mistakes” by witnesses, and in all fairness the real LHO was accounted for at work in a number of these sightings, otherwise, it opened the door to more unsavory things.
These things of course were impersonation and conspiracy. This was something the WC could NOT entertain in the least. Thus, this topic shows how the WC did NOT go where the evidence led, but rather how they would IGNORE their own evidence to reach a conclusion they had worked out ahead of time. This shows they were NOT searching for the truth no matter where it led, but rather they were trying to cover up the truth with a preconceived conclusion worked out in advance.
In this series I will look at some of these events over time. This posts will deal with the issue of a man coming into a gun shop two to three weeks before President John F. Kennedy’s (JFK) murder to have a scope mounted on his high-powered rifle. Let’s see how the WC dealt with this one.
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Dial Ryder was an employee of the Irving Sports Shop and he said a man came in two to three weeks before the assassination to have work done on his rifle. He asked Ryder to “drill and tap” the weapon so a telescopic sight could be added to it.
[Note: IF we believe the order form the WC gave us as evidence then this was totally unneeded as the rifle LHO allegedly ordered CAME with a scope already attached. One could say the scope that came with it was broken or had fallen off, but why did the man then need the “drill and tap” for a scope when Ryder could have used the same holes already there? Furthermore, if this work was done just two to three weeks before November 22, 1963, why was the scope loose when found and required shims to be added to stabilize it? What would LHO have been doing with his rifle to cause this issue in such a short amount of time?
We are asked to believe he buried it after shooting at retired General Edwin Walker with NO damage, but we are left to believe IF we support the claim of Ryder (and it is corroborated) that in two to three weeks the newly added scope came loose?]
This request caused Ryder to fill out a repair tag and he put the name of the man given to him—Oswald. Of course this was NOT to the liking of the WC so they brought Ryder’s boss before them to clear this up. Let’s look at the relevant portions of his testimony regarding this issue.
Repair tag:
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NY Times article:
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Mr. LIEBELER. Are you the owner and operator of the Irving Sports Shop located at 221 East Irving Boulevard in Irving?
Mr. GREENER.. Yes, sir.
Mr. LIEBELER. Is Dial D. Ryder one of your employees?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. How long have you known Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Approximately 6 years.
Mr. LIEBELER. Has he been employed by you here at the shop practically all that time?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
This shows us Ryder had been an employee of Charles Greener for about six years. This is more than enough time to know what kind of employee and person he was.
Mr. LIEBELER. We have a repair tag that has the number 18374 on it and the name Oswald, indicating some repairs were to be made to a rifle. We will mark this picture as Exhibit No. 1, on your deposition. I show you a picture of this tag and ask you if that is a tag of the type that you use here in this shop?
Mr. GREENER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you ever seen that tag before?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember the first time that you ever saw it?
Mr. GREENER. Approximately a week or less after the assassination was the first time I had seen it. That was on Thanksgiving Day, I guess, because they called me at home and I was eating and I met some of the news media to go through this Thanksgiving.
After going over how the media heard of this before the FBI even came, and mentioning how Walter Cronkite was rushing to put out a retraction BEFORE the whole story was even known (again, because this did NOT look good to the WC’s conclusion), they moved on to this.
Mr. LIEBELER. That was after the story had already been out in the newspaper, is that right?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. This reporter came in and wanted to talk to Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Right. The paper stated the owner of the Irving Sports Shop, and he apparently figured that was the correct information.
Of course, all the newspapers, they didn't check out any stories; they just run to their office and sent it in, as you well know. No one checked out anything. Anything they could get hold of, they put in print, and some of the information they got a hold, I don't know where it came from.
Sure, newspapers NEVER check anything they put into print! They like being sued, I guess! The real irony here is the WC is not stopping him or correcting him, but rather letting him make it seem as if the newspaper made it all up!
They were obsessed with the media knowing before the FBI about this and that says a lot about the investigation the FBI did, huh?
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any reason to believe that any reporter talked to Ryder prior to the time the FBI came to your shop?
Mr. GREENER. One told me he did.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember that reporter's name?
Mr. GREENER. No; he was with the Times Herald.
Mr. LIEBELER. Dallas Times Herald?
Mr. GREENER. I couldn't swear.
Mr. LIEBELER. He told you he talked to Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Ryder told me he hadn't.
Mr. LIEBELER. Ryder told you the reporter had not talked to him?
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Mr. GREENER. Had not talked to him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did the reporter tell you when he had talked to Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. He told me that he talked to him earlier in the morning. I don't know when that was. I am inclined to believe, to the best of my knowledge, it was Thanksgiving Day. Now I could be wrong on that. My recollection is that this story first came out--I am thinking it came out on Thanksgiving Day.
Remember how the WC jumped to the conclusion that the newsman was right and that Ryder was wrong (i.e. that Ryder was lying to his boss about this) later on.
Mr. LIEBELER. I have here a clipping from the New York Times of November 29, 1963, which appears to be one of the first times that this story was released in the New York papers at any rate, November 29, 1963. Mr. GREENER. What was Thanksgiving Day?
Mr. LIEBELER. Let the record show that the newspaper clipping that I previously referred to is from the New York Times of November 29, 1963, and the story is entitled, "Gunsmith Attached Sight for Man Named Oswald," and it is a story written by Mr. John Herbers, and it has been marked as Exhibit No. 2, on Mr. Greener's deposition.
Mr. LIEBELER. I am trying to find out at what time this story first broke, whether the FBI had been here at the shop to ask any questions before the story came out in the newspapers?
Mr. GREENER. As I recall, no. None of the law enforcing agencies had been by previous to that.
Mr. LIEBELER. Your impression is that he came here because they saw the story in the paper?
Mr. GREENER. That is my idea. Either that, or they were informed by the news reporters.
So the largest investigation in the history of America needed the newspaper reporters to lead them to this? Ryder always said he did NOT speak with any newspaper reporter.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you discuss this question with Ryder?
Mr. GREENER. Yes; I did. And he said he had not talked to a newspaper reporter about it.
Mr. LIEBELER. At all?
Mr. GREENER. Right.
Mr. LIEBELER. So you never had any opportunity or occasion to ask Ryder whether a reporter or, or whether Ryder contacted a reporter, because he simply denied talking to a reporter?
Mr. GREENER. No.
It is apparent even to the most benign reader that the WC simply would NOT accept the statement that Ryder did NOT call the media or speak with them as they continually tried to think of new ways to ask the SAME question over and over.
Like this.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did Ryder ever indicate to you that he had talked to a newspaper reporter about this?
Mr. GREENER. No; he did not.
They then tried to fix the date of the man’s visit.
Mr. LIEBELER. Can you fix the date?
Mr. GREENER. No; no way in the world. In the first place, I wasn't here. I feel sure I wasn't here at the time this went on. I was gone from--I don't remember what day I left. I started hunting in South Dakota on November 2, and we came back somewhere between the 12th and 14th.
Mr. LIEBELER. What makes you feel that you weren't here at the time this tag was made up?
Mr. GREENER. Well, in checking around, I feel like possibly that I would have noticed it on the gunrack. I would--I don't know whether I would or not, because I do some of the repair work myself, and a lot of times I go through the guns on the rack to be repaired, and if it is something I can do, I take care of it. If he is busy, then I take care of it.
Mr. LIEBELER. Ryder, you mean?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you have no recollection of this tag?
Mr. GREENER. None whatsoever, until, I believe, it was the day on Thanksgiving when they came down here. Now, I believe this has been a long time and we are going into phases of this I hadn't thought of in a long time it seems to me that the FBI got ahold of him and they come down scouring through the place. That was very possible after the newspaper report broke. It could have been before, but it seems to me that that is when the tag appeared. I believe it was an FBI man who was out here checking.
Again, it makes one wonder, why he was called to discuss this since he was NOT there and had NO recollection of the tag at all. Ryder says in is his testimony that a reporter called on the morning of Thanksgiving, early like 7:30 or 8:00 a.m., and he hung up on him when he identified himself and said what he wanted. (XI, p. 224)
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Mr. LIEBELER. Your impression now is that the FBI man was here when the tag was found?
Mr. GREENER. That is my impression; yes.
It seems odd to me since this story had ‘broke’ already that the place would need ‘scouring’ for the tag since it probably would have been front and center. We will also see the FBI had NO interest in taking this tag either when they spoke with Ryder.
Next, we get a summary from the WC lawyer about the possibilities of this tag.
Mr. LIEBELER. As we discussed briefly off the record before we started, it appears that there are three possibilities concerning this tag. One, in view of the fact that Mr. Ryder is quite clear in his own mind that he never worked on an Italian rifle similar to the one that was found in the Texas School Book Depository, we can conclude either that the Oswald on the tag was Lee Oswald and he brought a different rifle in here, or it was a different Oswald who brought another rifle in here, or that the tag is not a genuine tag, and that there never was a man who came in here with any gun at all. Can you think of any other possibilities?
Mr. GREENER. That about covers the situation, it looks to me like.
This summary hardly covers it all as there is another possibility and that is SOMEONE OTHER THAN OSWALD brought in a rifle other than the alleged murder weapon. Why is the WC NOT thinking of this? Because that leads down the road to conspiracy and that can’t be.
Now remember how the WC kept making it sound like Ryder would not tell the truth to Mr. Greener? Look at this.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any opinion as to what the real situation is?
Mr. GREENER. Nothing more than I have confidence in the boy, or I wouldn't have him working for me.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't think he would make this tag up to cause a lot of commotion?
Mr. GREENER. I don't think so. He doesn't seem like that type boy. I have lots of confidence in him or I wouldn't have him working for me and handling money. Especially times I am going off. He if he wasn't the right kind of boy, and he pretty well proved he is by dependability and in all the relations that we have together, and I just don't figure that is possible. Now I say I don't figure that. Of course, there is always possibilities of everything, but I don't feel that way.
Mr. LIEBELER. You don't feel Ryder would do that?
Mr. GREENER. Not at all; no.
Why was Ryder being treated as though he was a SUSPECT instead of a witness by the WC? They were out to PROVE his statement wrong instead of seeing where it led. Is this how you run an honest investigation?
Speaking of running an honest investigation, let’s look at this.
Mr. LIEBELER. When we look at this tag, it appears in the photograph that it is in two parts. There is a top part entitled "Repair Tag," on which writing pears, reading "Oswald, drill and tap, $4.50. Boresight, $1.50." Or a total of $6. And it appears at the lower part of the tag; it is in the form of a claim check; isn't that correct?
Mr. GREENER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Has the FBI or Dallas Police Department ever shown you pictures and asked you to identify them?
Mr. GREENER. No; they haven't shown me pictures of anyone for identification.
It seems the DPD and FBI were so disinterested in this they didn’t even bother to show Greener any pictures of LHO to determine if this was him or not!
After running through a series of photographs of LHO and having Greener saying he did NOT look familiar (probably to the delight of the WC) they ran into this.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you recognize that man in the picture?
Mr. GREENER. According to the other pictures in the paper, yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Who does it look like to you?
Mr. GREENER. It looks like Oswald.
Mr. LIEBELER. But you don't ever remember having seen him?
Mr. GREENER. No; my mental pictures are not hardly as good as it used to be. You take fooling with people day in and day out, without some reason to recognize them, the next time you see them--there is a reason for it, you don't make a mental picture of every person that comes in. If he was 6'6" and weighed 300 pounds, or gave you some trouble when he comes for his merchandise, then it is likely you would remember, but a guy just comes in and tells you what he wants done, and comes back, and gets his merchandise and doesn't give you any trouble, then you don't remember. Usually I never forget a face. Now, the first picture you showed me, there was something there, but I couldn't pin it to anything, though.
My first question is, why did they keep asking if he was the man when he said this earlier in his testimony?
GREENER. In the first place, I wasn't here. I feel sure I wasn't here at the time this went on. I was gone from--I don't remember what day I left. I started hunting in South Dakota on November 2, and we came back somewhere between the 12th and 14th.
He clearly said he was NOT there when the man came in for the work on the rifle, and yet, the WC spent nearly a page of testimony getting him to see if the man looked like LHO or not.
We also know the rifle in question was NOT an Italian made one LHO has been accused of owning.
Mr. LIEBELER. Both of them, please. These are pictures of a rifle. I would like to have you examine it and tell me whether you have ever seen that rifle or one similar to it.
Mr. GREENER. No; I don't remember this rifle at all. The first Italian rifle that I remember seeing was in Worland, Wyo. A friend pulled his out, and that is the first Italian rifle that I ever recall having seen.
Mr. LIEBELER. Was that subsequent to the assassination?
Mr. GREENER. That was while we were on the trip.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember ever having seen a rifle like this in the shop here?
Mr. GREENER. No; I sure don't.
I love this stuff here.
Mr. LIEBELER. Have you made any attempt on your own part to try to figure out how this tag came to be in your shop?
Mr. GREENER. No; really I haven't inquired any at all on that. I inquired about the reporter deal, but I didn't inquire into anything at all about the tag, because I just assumed it was all open and above board and didn't go into it at all.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now we have talked previously about the three possibilities that could possibly explain this tag, and you have told us that you don't think that Ryder is the kind of guy who would write the tag up after the fact just to cause a commotion.
There are two other possibilities. One, was that Lee Oswald had a different rifle in here. And the other is that there is a different Oswald involved. Do you have any opinion as to which of those possibilities might be correct?
Mr. GREENER. No; it would just be a---
Mr. LIEBELER. Wild speculation?
Mr. GREENER. Very wild. Very wild speculation.
The WC would know about “wild speculation”, wouldn’t they? Again, they left the very viable fourth possibility out of the equation – someone impersonating LHO brought in a different rifle. I wonder why?
Again, Greener spoke up for Ryder.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, you have known the boy a long time and you should be in a position to make that kind of judgment?
Mr. GREENER. That is what he is. He has been a mighty fine boy and he is just an extraordinary boy. There is not many like him, and I would trust him with anything that I have to be done, and it just never struck me as him being that kind of boy.
Remember, the WC claimed LHO ordered the alleged murder weapon from Klein’s with a scope and then used said rifle to gun down the president of the United States in a very difficult shooting feat. What does this man, Greener, think of the rifle in question? Here the WC asked him for his EXPERT opinion and this is what he said.
Mr. LIEBELER. In your opinion, based on your experience in this field, do you think that a rifle that had been purchased from a mail-order house that is shipped through the mails with a scope mounted on it would be in a condition to fire accurately at that point without any further sighting in of the rifle by firing it?
Mr. GREENER. The possibility of it being, especially with this frail mount is, I am sure that that mount, according to what little information I have, the possibility of it being real accurate would be pretty small, I think.
I think the gun would be I think even a fellow that was going to go deer hunting would want to take the gun out and shoot it before he went hunting, and I think that holds very true with this case, regardless of whether we mounted the scope or who mounted it or it come mounted. I think the man would fire it before using it.
Mr. LIEBELER. You feel that because you don't think that a rifle would be able to be fired accurately unless it had been sighted?
Mr. GREENER. The possibility would be small that it would be real accurate; and you talk to most any of the fellows that go hunting, regardless of how expensive a mount they may have on the gun, he is going to take it and fire it before he goes hunting. That holds true in 99 percent of the cases.
The only reason not to would be the fact the man was in a real big hurry, he picked it up late in the afternoon and he was going to Colorado and was getting there after the season and he was going to shoot and just take his chances. Otherwise, he would take the gun out and fire it, 99 out of 100, and fire it.
Here we see what an expert has said about the mount (i.e. scope) in question on CE-139 -- that “the possibility of it being real accurate would be pretty small, I think.” So much for the official conclusion, huh? He also said if you don’t go out and sight it your chances are even worse. When did LHO go out to sight his rifle? The ONLY times we see he was at shooting ranges show us it was NOT LHO at all. So, when did he sight his scope before the assassination?
What about the ammo for the M-C in question? Greener said this and this burst the bubble of the WC’s claims.
Mr. LIEBELER. That would have to be done, as you have indicated, even if the rifle had been boresighted?
Mr. GREENER. That's right. It would be accurate as far as elevation. The windage part is usually right on target, but the elevation has to do with caliber.
As far as your 6.5 Italian gun is concerned, there is only two types. One is the hand load, and one is the military ammunition. Because there is none of the major ammunition manufacturers that builds a sporting load for that gun, so it either has to be a hand load or old Italian or military ammunition, and the hand load has to do with what size bullet and the power you get, and it would be more important on that gun to shoot it than it would any other caliber or of an American make that you get your larger manufacturers of ammunition loading for.
Since NO hand loading equipment was ever found for LHO we are left with the option of military ammunition and as researcher Stewart Galanor showed years ago the LAST TIME ANY AMMO WAS MANUFACTURED FOR THE Italian military was 1944! How accurate and reliable could this ammo be in 1963?
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you need a particular kind of equipment to reload shells?
Mr. GRIFFIN. Very definitely.
Mr. LIEBELER. Does the equipment vary with the caliber of the shell?
Mr. GREENER. Very definitely. The presses usually will accept all the different calibers, and then you have to have your die sets.
Now, let's look at a few parts of Ryder's testimony. Here is the relevant portion regarding the ticket. Notice how he says LHO looked like the majority of men in that part of the country.
Mr. RYDER. Not as far as I know. I was interviewed by the FBI and Dallas Police Department and I believe a couple Secret Service men came out.
Mr. LIEBELER. Which one of those interviewed you first?
Mr. RYDER. The FBI was the first one out.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember what the date was when the FBI first interviewed you?
Mr. RYDER. It was on Monday, the day of the funeral of President Kennedy.
Mr. LIEBELER. That would have been November 25. Friday was the 22d, Saturday would be the 23d, Sunday the 24th, Monday the 25th. Do you remember the name of the FBI man?
Mr. RYDER. Mr. Horton.
Mr. LIEBELER. Horton [spelling] E-m-o-r-y E. H-o-r-t-o-n?
Mr. RYDER. I didn't get his first name. His last name stuck with me well, I don't know why; it just stayed there.
Mr. LIEBELER. What did Mr. Horton say to you and what did you say to him, to the best of your recollection?
Mr. RYDER. Of course, we were closed on that Monday.
Mr. LIEBELER. The Irving Sports Shop was closed?
Mr. RYDER. Right, and he came to the house, so, at that time he showed me pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald and pictures of the gun and asked me about it. I said "Well, the face and the body features of Oswald there was real common in this country." I mean, you know, in this area in Texas and that to say that I had him in the shop, actually, this was after a period of time that we boiled it down to. Oh, I told him I had a ticket with the name Oswald, no date, no address, just for drilling and tapping and boresighting--no address, or name: he didn't say he'd like to see the ticket and was looking at the pictures, then I seen the gun. Of course, from the picture I told him as far as I could remember I told him I hadn't mounted that scope, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER. You based that statement that you had not mounted the scope on your recollection that you had not worked on that particular kind of rifle, is that correct?
Mr. RYDER. Right, on this Italian rifle I never worked on them. I seen them but as far as doing any physical work, I haven't done none even to this date, I haven't worked on any of them.
Mr. LIEBELER. You are absolutely sure about that?
Mr. RYDER. I am positive on that, very positive. So, we went up to the Irving Sports Shop and I opened it up and got the ticket and showed him. It was just a little repair ticket actually what it amounted to.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did it have a number on it?
Mr. RYDER. Yes, sir; I don't remember the number.
So that is the background, but look at what happened when he offered the ticket, evidence one would think, to FBI Agent Horton.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did you give the tag to Mr. Horton?
Mr. RYDER. No; he told us to hold on to it, keep it and they would probably get it later on and they did. It seems to me like it was 2 or 3 weeks ago they came and got it now.
What? The FBI and DPD confiscated other things like LHO’s shower shoes, pay stubs, Ruth Paine’s slide projector and 78rpm record collection immediately, but they were NOT interested in a repair tag for a rifle with the name “Oswald” on it? It took them to late February or early March 1964 to come back for it. Can anything else show how little interested they were in this part of the case? Even the WC seemed surprised by this revelation.
Mr. LIEBELER. Just 2 or 3 weeks ago?
Mr. RYDER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Did that tag indicate the nature of the work that was to be done?
Mr. RYDER. Well, actually, all it had on it was drill and tapping; it said drill and tap and a price of $4.50, I believe it was and boresight, of course, no charge on that, so by us charging $1.50 a hole that's what we normally charge for drillin' and tappin'--would on this particular thing, would have been three holes drill and tap, where in the picture of the gun there was only two screws holding the mount of the scope on which is, more or less, made it positive we hadn't mounted it on the gun, so Mr. Horton, so he took it for granted that I hadn't done the work on it and I am sure I haven't because—
Mr. LIEBELER. What kind of gun was it?
Mr. RYDER. It was a 6.5 Italian.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you know the make?
Mr. RYDER. Like I say, I have seen several of them but as far as who made the gun, I don't know; probably some Italian gun manufacturer but as far as who it was, I don't know. I can't read Italian.
Here Ryder is saying it was an Italian rifle and that it needed a scope, but didn’t the WC claim LHO ordered a rifle with a scope already? What happened to that one? Later on, though they would say it was NOT an Italian rifle.
Mr. LIEBELER. The Italian rifle. Do you have any recollection of the kind of rifle that this Oswald tag referred to?
Mr. RYDER. No, sir; I don't. That's another-place where we did--in other words, I did so many and I was so rushed that I didn't pay a whole lot of attention to what tag was to have such and such a scope put on. That is where actually our fall-down went on the thing.
Mr. LIEBELER. There is no indication on the tag as to what kind of rifle it would be?
Mr. RYDER. No, sir.
So we are back to being unsure, but this seems interesting.
Mr. LIEBELER. Are you helped at all by the fact that the tag indicates that three holes were drilled? Do you ordinarily drill three holes on all rifles?
Mr. RYDER. We boiled it down to this: That there are two type bases used that have three. The Redfield base and the Buehler base and then, actually, these could go on any gun that you want. In other words, if a man bought a Redfield or Buehler base they can be adapted to any gun with three holes. Now any imported, we couldn't say definitely if it was imported because the Springfield O3A3 requires three holes; the British 303 requires three holes. These are guns they use and that's the only ones we could think of offhand that would require just three holes, so we boiled it down, it was either Buehler, Redfield base or with the Weaver base being on the Springfield O3A3.
Mr. LIEBELER. Or the 303 British rifle?
Mr. RYDER. Yes.
The topic quickly changed after this comment. Why? I can’t say for sure, but I do know one other participant that is known in this story—Wes Frazier—owned a British Enfield rifle. Was that why they wanted a change so quickly? Here Ryder says the alleged murder weapon had already been fitted for a scope.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you remember her name?
Mr. RYDER. I sure don't. She, in turn, called Klein's and found out the rifle that was used in the assassination had already been drilled and tapped. In other words, he had bought the scope and rifle from Klein's and they were shipped together and all he had to do was attach it to this particular gun. In other words, the one he used in the assassination. Of course, they order by serial number.
Mr. LIEBELER. You also testified you did not mount any scope on an Italian rifle?
Mr. RYDER. Right.
This portion pretty much sums it up.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, as far as outside of the shop is concerned, you see, I'm troubled to some extent because I have before me a report of the agent from the Secret Service and a report from the agent of the FBI. One report says you are quite sure you have seen and talked to Oswald and the other one says you are quite sure you have not seen him. I am puzzled by those statements.
Mr. RYDER. Like I continue to say all the way through on their investigation, both that Secret Service man and from the FBI that he could have been in the shop; I could have talked to him but to say I had definitely, I couldn't say I have really talked to him.
Mr. LIEBELER. Could you say you definitely have ever seen him outside of the shop anyplace?
Mr. RYDER. No, sir; I don't believe I have. I mean I couldn't say specific because back again to the common features, so on and so forth, but, actually, we have drawn a conclusion, of course, that is, I and the boys and people concerned at the sport shop there that it was either this Oswald with another gun or another Oswald with another gun. We know definitely that it was another gun. We know that for sure.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you have already carefully considered the possibility of identifying that other gun but you are not able to do it?
Mr. RYDER. Right; Mr. Greener called all the other Oswalds listed in the Dallas and Irving directories.
Mr. LIEBELER. He did that?
Mr. RYDER. Right, with no avail; in other words, nothing turned up.
Mr. LIEBELER Whose handwriting does the name Oswald appear to be written in?
Mr. RYDER. It's mine.
Mr. LIEBELER. It is your own handwriting?
Mr. RYDER. It is my Own handwriting; the whole thing was written up by me.
Ryder would be called again on April 1, 1964, and on July 23, 1964, and the same details were presented. Why was the WC so determined to show he was wrong when he would be corroborated by other witnesses? As he said, they knew for sure it was ANOTHER rifle left for work, thus, it could NOT be the LHO we know as he was accused of owning ONLY a M-C.
So we see the possibility of LHO doing this himself is out the window. The next phase of this saga happens just hours after LHO is shot dead. If you go to CE 1334 you will see a FBI memo outlining a call to them about this tag. It says the following.
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historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0281a.gif
At 6:30 P.M., on November 24, 1963, an anonymous male caller telephonically advised a Special Agent of the Federal Bureau of Investigation at Dallas, Texas, that at 5:30 P.M. he learned from an unidentified sack boy at Wyatt’s Supermarket, Plymouth Park Shopping Center, Irving, Texas, that LEE HARVEY OSWALD, on Thursday, November 21, 1963, had his rifle sighted at the Irving Sports Shop, 221 East Irving Blvd., Irving, Texas. He said he could furnish so no further details concerning this matter and does not know it if is true or how the boy found out this information. (CE 1334, p. 1)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0281a.htm
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Who was this caller and who was this boy? Why were they trying to put the FBI on this trail just hours after LHO was shot dead?
Another anonymous call would be placed to Ray John of the television news department of WFAA-TV in Dallas. He would tell the FBI that he recalled having “received a telephone call sometime between 3:00 and 3:30 p.m. of that day [November 24] from an anonymous male caller, who stated that he believed ‘Oswald’ had had a rifle sighted at a gun shop located in the 200 block on Irving Boulevard in Irving.” Who was making these calls? Who was hot to have the FBI and media move on this trail? Why did these calls NOT spark interest in the FBI? Remember, Greener said the media came BEFORE the FBI did.
The WC would conclude that “NO other person by the name of Oswald in the Dallas-Ft. Worth area has been found who had a rifle repaired at the Irving Sports Shop.” (WCR, p. 316) This still did NOT mean someone who was NOT named Oswald could have taken a rifle into the shop and claimed his name was Oswald. Again, the sole purpose of the WC from the beginning was to put this story to rest and conclude it had NOTHING to do with LHO. It would state that “Neither Ryder nor Greener claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald had ever been a customer in the Irving Sports Shop. Neither has any recollection of either Oswald or his Mannlicher-Carcano rifle, nor does either recall the transaction allegedly represented by the repair tag or the person for whom the repair was supposedly made.” (WCR, p. 316)
First of all, Greener testified to the fact he was NOT even there when this man came in so, why is he included at all? Secondly, it was stated in his testimony that the rifle the man supposedly brought in was NOT an Italian rifle so the fact they did not remember a M-C means nothing. Thirdly, IF the man was really LHO would this have been easy for them to remember since he became famous worldwide after November 22, 1963? I would think so, so to me, the FACT they can’t remember the man and what he looked like proves to me it was NOT the real LHO and that a man was impersonating him and leaving a trail. Finally, as I said earlier, the alleged murder weapon (which has NO evidentiary trail to LHO by the way) had a scope mounted per the WC so, why would LHO need to have another scope mounted?
Ryder would be quoted by the WC saying that when he was shown a photograph of LHO at his deposition, he testified to knowing the picture was of LHO, “as the pictures in the paper, but as far as seeing the guy personally, I don’t think I ever have.” (WCR, p. 316) This seals it for me, and it should have sealed it for the WC – the man who claimed to be LHO was NOT LHO. The WC couldn’t have that though as that meant someone was going around impersonating LHO and who would do this to a “lone nut”? So, the WC did what it usually did in these matters—it tried to discredit Ryder. It claimed he lied when he said he had NOT talked to any reporters before the story appeared in the Dallas Times-Herald and used the Secret Service (SS) for this task by saying he had told them at his deposition that he was “misquoted” by the paper. It then claimed that a reporter from the above paper had called him at home and obtained all the details for the story from him, but the WC never believed Ryder’s side of the story as they took the side of the reporter instead (even though Greener said they just print whatever they want without checking it!).
Despite Ryder swearing that he wrote the tag with LHO’s name, and his boss, Charles Greener, saying Ryder was honest and the tag was authentic the WC would write: “Investigation has revealed that the authenticity of the repair tag bearing the name of Oswald’s name is indeed subject to grave doubts.” (WCR, p. 315)
As we will see in the next installment in this series Ryder would have corroboration for his claim and that the WC was well aware of it but chose to discredit it instead.