Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions -- #486
Dec 4, 2023 20:42:22 GMT -5
John Duncan likes this
Post by Rob Caprio on Dec 4, 2023 20:42:22 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
neitshade5.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/lee-harvey-oswald.jpg
2.bp.blogspot.com/-QD-HwFg3LPQ/VuZRG8SgwbI/AAAAAAAAXA4/Z_AqBtq07dwkKeIUaWLbOZ81CYJpQX03A/s1600/Jack-Ruby-conspiracies.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was the sole assassin of President John F. Kennedy (JFK) on November 22, 1963. They further claimed that Jack Ruby was the sole assassin of LHO. In their conclusion they emphatically said that LHO and Ruby did NOT have any connection or even knew each other despite the fact Ruby seemed to know a lot of people in Dallas.
We have looked at this issue before in this series, and now we will examine it again in another way.
***************************************************
We are going to look at an issue in this post that is not discussed much. It was claimed that Jack Ruby was seen handing off a pistol to LHO as he left the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) by a number of witnesses shortly after the assassination. Before we look at this claim we have to first consider what was reported by Secret Service (SS) Inspector Thomas Kelly as he relayed something LHO supposedly told him during the interrogations.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0327a.gif
...At that time he [LHO] asked me [Thomas J. Kelley] whether I was an FBI Agent, and I said that I was not, that I was a member of the Secret Service. He said when he was standing in front of the Textbook Building and about to leave it, a young crew-cut man rushed up to him and said he was from the Secret Service, showed a book of identification, and asked him where the phone was. Oswald said he pointed toward the pay phone in the building and that he saw the man actually go to the phone before he left. – (WCR, p. 629)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0327a.htm
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For years the WC defenders claimed the man LHO really spoke to was NOT SS, but rather reporter Robert MacNeil. The problem with that is that MacNeil went to the overpass/railroad yard area first and spent time there before he went to the TSBD. How do we know this? Because there exists a photograph showing him looking over the fence of the Grassy Knoll (GK).
[Note: For the photograph see: Robert MacNeil, The Way We Were (Carroll & Graf: New York, 1988), p. 195.]
By the time he went searching for a phone inside the TSBD about four minutes had elapsed from the time of the shooting and according to the WC LHO would have been gone by then. Many years later MacNeil would make this comment about his initial reaction following the shots.
Quote on
You follow your instincts and mine led me up the grassy knoll. It is one of the personal reasons I have for paying serious attention to those who claim there were shots from there as well as from the Book Depository.
Quote off
The notion that the man LHO described was MacNeil came from writer William Manchester as he said the following in his book The Death of a President.
Quote on
12:33 p.m. [Oswald] Leaves Depository by front entrance, pausing to tell NBC's Robert MacNeil he can find a phone inside; thinks MacNeil is a Secret Service man. (William Manchester, The Death of a President (Harper and Row: New York 1967), p. 279)
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This was NEVER confirmed by MacNeil, and he wrote the following his own book that came out in 1988.
Quote on
I ran to the right and into the first building I came to that looked as though it might have a phone. It was the Texas School Book Depository. As I ran up the steps and through the door, a young man in shirt sleeves was coming out. In great agitation I asked him where there was a phone. He pointed inside to an open space where another man was talking on the phone situated near a pillar and said "Better ask him." I was inside and asked the second man, who pointed to an office at one side. I found a telephone on the desk. Two of the Lucite buttons were lit up. I punched another, got long distance and was through to the NBC News Radio desk in about ten seconds. (Robert MacNeil, The Way We Were, p. 196.)
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It does sound like it could have been LHO MacNeil spoke with, but let’s look at what LHO said about this incident.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pages/WH_Vol24_0249a.gif
At the time he (Oswald) asked me whether I was an FBI Agent and I said that I was not that I was a member of the Secret Service. He said when he was standing in front of the Textbook Building and about to leave it, a young, crew-cut man rushed up to him and said that he was from Secret Service, showed a book of identification, and asked him where the phone was. Oswald said that he pointed toward the pay phone in the building and that he saw the man actually go to the phone before he left. (SS Agent Thomas Kelley’s Report, CE 2060, p.479)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0249a.htm
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The first point that sticks out is LHO said the man who came up to him had a crew-cut and MacNeil had hair long enough to comb. Secondly, LHO described the man as “young”, but MacNeil was thirty-two-years old at the time and that meant he was eight years OLDER than LHO! Thirdly, LHO said the man who spoke with furnished a “book of identification” and this sounds like it would have had to be withdrawn from a pocket whereas MacNeil had a PRESS BADGE on. Finally, LHO said the man he spoke with declared to him to be with the SS and showed identification indicating he was SS so this should dispel it being MacNeil or Pierce Allman (the other person WC defenders claim it was). Neither should have been saying they were with the SS or showing SS identification. If they were doing this, it should have been investigated since this is against the law.
The WC said that LHO left by 12:33 PM and MacNeil did NOT arrive at the front of the TSBD until 12:34 PM so this could NOT have been him. You may be asking why this is important so I will tell you. IF it was NOT MacNeil, and it wasn’t, and it was NOT Allman, and it wasn’t, then we have a person claiming to be SS in Dealey Plaza (DP) just minutes after the shooting when NONE were assigned to be there! The SS itself has said NO agents were assigned on the ground duties in DP that day. So, who could this have been?
Also, if LHO had shot JFK as claimed, why would he be so calm and helpful while trying to flee the building? How do we balance this story and the statement made by Mrs. Evelyn Harris made to the FBI on November 30, 1963?
On November 30, FBI Agent Alan Manning interviewed Mrs. Evelyn Harris regarding what she was told by a neighbor of her aunt in Van, Texas. Here are excerpts from his one-page report.
Quote on
...She [Evelyn Harris] had been visiting her aunt in Van, Texas, and while there met a woman who lives across the street from her aunt. She stated that this woman is known as LUCY LOPEZ, a white woman who is married to a Mexican and had given the following story.
Mrs. LOPEZ had just come from Dallas where she had been babysitting for her daughter. She stated that her daughter works at a sewing room across from the Texas School Book Depository Building. She stated her daughter and some of the other girls knew Lee Harvey Oswald who apparently spoke Spanish well and ate with them at a nearby restaurant. They were reportedly acquainted with JACK RUBY.
She stated on November 22, 1963, the girls, all of Spanish descent, were watching the Presidential parade from a window of the sewing room. They reportedly observed JACK RUBY walking up and down the street near the Texas School Book Depository Building [Elm] and when OSWALD came out of the building, they saw RUBY give him a pistol.
Mrs. Lopez stated after the killing of OSWALD the girls were afraid to contact the Dallas Police Department and as far as she knew no one had interviewed any of the girls in connection with the President's assassination or the killing of OSWALD. (Commission Document 205, p. 451)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=454
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This is startling stuff and if true (and I see no reason for any of these girls to lie) it definitely shows a connection between LHO and Ruby. The fact no one contacted them to see what they might have seen is incredible. I know, they were afraid to come forward (And who can blame them?) so you can argue who knew that they had seen anything? The point is that a REAL investigation leaves no stones uncovered in murders like this. IF you worked near the site of the assassination then you should have been found during a canvass and interviewed. This is basic stuff in any murder, but this is really important in the murder of a President when there will be a transition in power. There is no excuse for why these girls were not found other than there never was a real investigation performed.
When did the Oswald killed in Dallas ever learn to speak Spanish? We see this issue in Mary Bledsoe's testimony as well.
Mr. BALL - And the foreign language that you heard Oswald using over the telephone on this Wednesday afternoon, do you know what the language was?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I didn't.
Mr. BALL - Are you familiar with the Spanish language?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I am not. Not familiar with any of them.
Mr. BALL - All you know it was not English?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.
Mr. BALL - But, you can't tell what language?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.
Mr. BALL - Can you make a guess?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I have no idea. I do, because the girl is Spanish, but I don't know whether he called her or not.
Mr. BALL - What girl is Spanish?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I mean--his wife was Russian.
Why did Ball think it was Spanish instead of Russian since that is the language the WC told us LHO knew? Could this have been the second Oswald?
Even after being interviewed and told about their story nothing was done about it as it led to a conspiracy and that is something the WC and the law enforcement agencies had no interest in. FBI Agent Alan Manning did not stop there as he interviewed Mrs. Lucy Lopez as well on the same day.
Quote on
Mrs. LUCY LOPEZ...who stated her family was afraid of the Dallas Police Department, advised that last week while staying at the home of her daughter, Mrs. LOUIS VELEZ,...a man by the name of Conrad (last name unknown to her), stated that two or three Mexican girls, names not given, who work at the sewing room across from the Texas School Book Depository Building, had seen a "chubby" man give a pistol to LEE HARVEY OSWALD when OSWALD left the Texas School Book Depository Building. He stated from the conversation it appeared the girls had known OSWALD and the "chubby" man.
She denied that her daughter, Mrs. LOUIS VELEZ, knew either OSWALD or JACK RUBY or that she had seen RUBY give OSWALD a pistol. She further denied who saw this transfer of the pistol from a "chubby" man to OSWALD were afraid of the Dallas Police Department. (Ibid., p. 452)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=455
Quote off
The denials by Mrs. Lucy Lopez are no real surprise. This was a huge issue that could show the official narrative was not correct regarding LHO and Ruby. One would have to think being a Latino/Latina in Dallas in 1963 was not an easy thing, therefore, fear of the police is a natural thing to have. I believe this story for several reasons.
Firstly, NOTHING was done with this information and that shows me that it has to have validity. Secondly, who were these "girls" anyway? Who knows as Manning didn't bother to find out their names (or if he did, he felt no need to share them with us) or interview them directly from what is in the record. Why? This is lazy at best and dereliction of duty at worst when you are investigating the murder of a president.
The second document means nothing to me as of course they were in overdrive to shoot this story down as it would not only show a direct connection between the two "loners", but it would show that LHO received a pistol from Ruby. Was this the pistol he supposedly used to shoot Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit (JDT) with (Commission Exhibit 143)? Of course, the LHO shot down in Dallas did not shoot JDT, so, was this a double Ruby was giving a pistol to? Or was the plan to have LHO shot dead as soon as he received the pistol from Ruby? This is what I think was supposed to happen as they wanted the patsy dead as soon as possible to eliminate the horrendous "investigation" they were forced to act like they were conducting.
They could have said he was the assassin, and he was "fleeing" the site and had a pistol on him. This would have been much better for them, but something went wrong. Perhaps Ruby was supposed to be the brave citizen who made a "citizen's arrest" in gunning him down, but he chickened out. Something to think about. What gives credence to this scenario is that there is a witness (George Applin) who said that Ruby was at the Texas Theater (TT) when LHO was arrested. This and other events show a pattern of stalking by Ruby in regard to LHO over the weekend of the assassination.
IF this was a stand-alone incident that would be bad enough, but unfortunately this kind of burying of information that did not conform to the official conclusion was the rule and NOT the exception. What reason could there be for this kind of behavior IF LHO had acted all by himself as the WC claimed and the evidence PROVED this? None obviously, so this behavior shows that the FBI, DPD, WC and other law enforcement agencies had a reason to hide information that showed the official narrative was false. That is called a cover-up and that means there was a conspiracy in the assassination of JFK.
We again sadly see within the twenty-six volumes evidence and behavior by those Americans had put trust in that sinks the WC’s claims and conclusion.
neitshade5.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/lee-harvey-oswald.jpg
2.bp.blogspot.com/-QD-HwFg3LPQ/VuZRG8SgwbI/AAAAAAAAXA4/Z_AqBtq07dwkKeIUaWLbOZ81CYJpQX03A/s1600/Jack-Ruby-conspiracies.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was the sole assassin of President John F. Kennedy (JFK) on November 22, 1963. They further claimed that Jack Ruby was the sole assassin of LHO. In their conclusion they emphatically said that LHO and Ruby did NOT have any connection or even knew each other despite the fact Ruby seemed to know a lot of people in Dallas.
We have looked at this issue before in this series, and now we will examine it again in another way.
***************************************************
We are going to look at an issue in this post that is not discussed much. It was claimed that Jack Ruby was seen handing off a pistol to LHO as he left the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) by a number of witnesses shortly after the assassination. Before we look at this claim we have to first consider what was reported by Secret Service (SS) Inspector Thomas Kelly as he relayed something LHO supposedly told him during the interrogations.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0327a.gif
...At that time he [LHO] asked me [Thomas J. Kelley] whether I was an FBI Agent, and I said that I was not, that I was a member of the Secret Service. He said when he was standing in front of the Textbook Building and about to leave it, a young crew-cut man rushed up to him and said he was from the Secret Service, showed a book of identification, and asked him where the phone was. Oswald said he pointed toward the pay phone in the building and that he saw the man actually go to the phone before he left. – (WCR, p. 629)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0327a.htm
Quote off
For years the WC defenders claimed the man LHO really spoke to was NOT SS, but rather reporter Robert MacNeil. The problem with that is that MacNeil went to the overpass/railroad yard area first and spent time there before he went to the TSBD. How do we know this? Because there exists a photograph showing him looking over the fence of the Grassy Knoll (GK).
[Note: For the photograph see: Robert MacNeil, The Way We Were (Carroll & Graf: New York, 1988), p. 195.]
By the time he went searching for a phone inside the TSBD about four minutes had elapsed from the time of the shooting and according to the WC LHO would have been gone by then. Many years later MacNeil would make this comment about his initial reaction following the shots.
Quote on
You follow your instincts and mine led me up the grassy knoll. It is one of the personal reasons I have for paying serious attention to those who claim there were shots from there as well as from the Book Depository.
Quote off
The notion that the man LHO described was MacNeil came from writer William Manchester as he said the following in his book The Death of a President.
Quote on
12:33 p.m. [Oswald] Leaves Depository by front entrance, pausing to tell NBC's Robert MacNeil he can find a phone inside; thinks MacNeil is a Secret Service man. (William Manchester, The Death of a President (Harper and Row: New York 1967), p. 279)
Quote off
This was NEVER confirmed by MacNeil, and he wrote the following his own book that came out in 1988.
Quote on
I ran to the right and into the first building I came to that looked as though it might have a phone. It was the Texas School Book Depository. As I ran up the steps and through the door, a young man in shirt sleeves was coming out. In great agitation I asked him where there was a phone. He pointed inside to an open space where another man was talking on the phone situated near a pillar and said "Better ask him." I was inside and asked the second man, who pointed to an office at one side. I found a telephone on the desk. Two of the Lucite buttons were lit up. I punched another, got long distance and was through to the NBC News Radio desk in about ten seconds. (Robert MacNeil, The Way We Were, p. 196.)
Quote off
It does sound like it could have been LHO MacNeil spoke with, but let’s look at what LHO said about this incident.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pages/WH_Vol24_0249a.gif
At the time he (Oswald) asked me whether I was an FBI Agent and I said that I was not that I was a member of the Secret Service. He said when he was standing in front of the Textbook Building and about to leave it, a young, crew-cut man rushed up to him and said that he was from Secret Service, showed a book of identification, and asked him where the phone was. Oswald said that he pointed toward the pay phone in the building and that he saw the man actually go to the phone before he left. (SS Agent Thomas Kelley’s Report, CE 2060, p.479)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0249a.htm
Quote off
The first point that sticks out is LHO said the man who came up to him had a crew-cut and MacNeil had hair long enough to comb. Secondly, LHO described the man as “young”, but MacNeil was thirty-two-years old at the time and that meant he was eight years OLDER than LHO! Thirdly, LHO said the man who spoke with furnished a “book of identification” and this sounds like it would have had to be withdrawn from a pocket whereas MacNeil had a PRESS BADGE on. Finally, LHO said the man he spoke with declared to him to be with the SS and showed identification indicating he was SS so this should dispel it being MacNeil or Pierce Allman (the other person WC defenders claim it was). Neither should have been saying they were with the SS or showing SS identification. If they were doing this, it should have been investigated since this is against the law.
The WC said that LHO left by 12:33 PM and MacNeil did NOT arrive at the front of the TSBD until 12:34 PM so this could NOT have been him. You may be asking why this is important so I will tell you. IF it was NOT MacNeil, and it wasn’t, and it was NOT Allman, and it wasn’t, then we have a person claiming to be SS in Dealey Plaza (DP) just minutes after the shooting when NONE were assigned to be there! The SS itself has said NO agents were assigned on the ground duties in DP that day. So, who could this have been?
Also, if LHO had shot JFK as claimed, why would he be so calm and helpful while trying to flee the building? How do we balance this story and the statement made by Mrs. Evelyn Harris made to the FBI on November 30, 1963?
On November 30, FBI Agent Alan Manning interviewed Mrs. Evelyn Harris regarding what she was told by a neighbor of her aunt in Van, Texas. Here are excerpts from his one-page report.
Quote on
...She [Evelyn Harris] had been visiting her aunt in Van, Texas, and while there met a woman who lives across the street from her aunt. She stated that this woman is known as LUCY LOPEZ, a white woman who is married to a Mexican and had given the following story.
Mrs. LOPEZ had just come from Dallas where she had been babysitting for her daughter. She stated that her daughter works at a sewing room across from the Texas School Book Depository Building. She stated her daughter and some of the other girls knew Lee Harvey Oswald who apparently spoke Spanish well and ate with them at a nearby restaurant. They were reportedly acquainted with JACK RUBY.
She stated on November 22, 1963, the girls, all of Spanish descent, were watching the Presidential parade from a window of the sewing room. They reportedly observed JACK RUBY walking up and down the street near the Texas School Book Depository Building [Elm] and when OSWALD came out of the building, they saw RUBY give him a pistol.
Mrs. Lopez stated after the killing of OSWALD the girls were afraid to contact the Dallas Police Department and as far as she knew no one had interviewed any of the girls in connection with the President's assassination or the killing of OSWALD. (Commission Document 205, p. 451)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=454
Quote off
This is startling stuff and if true (and I see no reason for any of these girls to lie) it definitely shows a connection between LHO and Ruby. The fact no one contacted them to see what they might have seen is incredible. I know, they were afraid to come forward (And who can blame them?) so you can argue who knew that they had seen anything? The point is that a REAL investigation leaves no stones uncovered in murders like this. IF you worked near the site of the assassination then you should have been found during a canvass and interviewed. This is basic stuff in any murder, but this is really important in the murder of a President when there will be a transition in power. There is no excuse for why these girls were not found other than there never was a real investigation performed.
When did the Oswald killed in Dallas ever learn to speak Spanish? We see this issue in Mary Bledsoe's testimony as well.
Mr. BALL - And the foreign language that you heard Oswald using over the telephone on this Wednesday afternoon, do you know what the language was?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I didn't.
Mr. BALL - Are you familiar with the Spanish language?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I am not. Not familiar with any of them.
Mr. BALL - All you know it was not English?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.
Mr. BALL - But, you can't tell what language?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No.
Mr. BALL - Can you make a guess?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I have no idea. I do, because the girl is Spanish, but I don't know whether he called her or not.
Mr. BALL - What girl is Spanish?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I mean--his wife was Russian.
Why did Ball think it was Spanish instead of Russian since that is the language the WC told us LHO knew? Could this have been the second Oswald?
Even after being interviewed and told about their story nothing was done about it as it led to a conspiracy and that is something the WC and the law enforcement agencies had no interest in. FBI Agent Alan Manning did not stop there as he interviewed Mrs. Lucy Lopez as well on the same day.
Quote on
Mrs. LUCY LOPEZ...who stated her family was afraid of the Dallas Police Department, advised that last week while staying at the home of her daughter, Mrs. LOUIS VELEZ,...a man by the name of Conrad (last name unknown to her), stated that two or three Mexican girls, names not given, who work at the sewing room across from the Texas School Book Depository Building, had seen a "chubby" man give a pistol to LEE HARVEY OSWALD when OSWALD left the Texas School Book Depository Building. He stated from the conversation it appeared the girls had known OSWALD and the "chubby" man.
She denied that her daughter, Mrs. LOUIS VELEZ, knew either OSWALD or JACK RUBY or that she had seen RUBY give OSWALD a pistol. She further denied who saw this transfer of the pistol from a "chubby" man to OSWALD were afraid of the Dallas Police Department. (Ibid., p. 452)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10672#relPageId=455
Quote off
The denials by Mrs. Lucy Lopez are no real surprise. This was a huge issue that could show the official narrative was not correct regarding LHO and Ruby. One would have to think being a Latino/Latina in Dallas in 1963 was not an easy thing, therefore, fear of the police is a natural thing to have. I believe this story for several reasons.
Firstly, NOTHING was done with this information and that shows me that it has to have validity. Secondly, who were these "girls" anyway? Who knows as Manning didn't bother to find out their names (or if he did, he felt no need to share them with us) or interview them directly from what is in the record. Why? This is lazy at best and dereliction of duty at worst when you are investigating the murder of a president.
The second document means nothing to me as of course they were in overdrive to shoot this story down as it would not only show a direct connection between the two "loners", but it would show that LHO received a pistol from Ruby. Was this the pistol he supposedly used to shoot Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit (JDT) with (Commission Exhibit 143)? Of course, the LHO shot down in Dallas did not shoot JDT, so, was this a double Ruby was giving a pistol to? Or was the plan to have LHO shot dead as soon as he received the pistol from Ruby? This is what I think was supposed to happen as they wanted the patsy dead as soon as possible to eliminate the horrendous "investigation" they were forced to act like they were conducting.
They could have said he was the assassin, and he was "fleeing" the site and had a pistol on him. This would have been much better for them, but something went wrong. Perhaps Ruby was supposed to be the brave citizen who made a "citizen's arrest" in gunning him down, but he chickened out. Something to think about. What gives credence to this scenario is that there is a witness (George Applin) who said that Ruby was at the Texas Theater (TT) when LHO was arrested. This and other events show a pattern of stalking by Ruby in regard to LHO over the weekend of the assassination.
IF this was a stand-alone incident that would be bad enough, but unfortunately this kind of burying of information that did not conform to the official conclusion was the rule and NOT the exception. What reason could there be for this kind of behavior IF LHO had acted all by himself as the WC claimed and the evidence PROVED this? None obviously, so this behavior shows that the FBI, DPD, WC and other law enforcement agencies had a reason to hide information that showed the official narrative was false. That is called a cover-up and that means there was a conspiracy in the assassination of JFK.
We again sadly see within the twenty-six volumes evidence and behavior by those Americans had put trust in that sinks the WC’s claims and conclusion.