Post by Rob Caprio on Jul 18, 2024 20:43:35 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2025
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Harry Holmes:
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The Warren Commission (WC) said that the Presidential limousine did not come to a stop or slow to a near stop during the shooting of President John F. Kennedy (JFK). They used the testimony of the driver of the limousine Secret Service (SS) Agent William Greer for the basis of this claim. This article will continue to look at the many witnesses who said the limousine either stopped or came to a near stop during the shooting sequence that disputed what Greer had said and the WC accepted.
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Our first witness in this article will be the “triple threat” Postal Inspector Harry Holmes. He was watching the motorcade from the fifth floor of his annex building located at Houston and Commerce Streets.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you on November 22, 1963, around noon or so. That in the day of the assassination?
Mr. HOLMES. I was in my office on the fifth floor of the terminal annex building located at the corner of Houston and Commerce Streets, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. Houston and Commerce Streets in Dallas. Now, where is Commerce with relation to Elm?
Mr. HOLMES. Commerce, Main, Elm--two blocks.
Mr. BELIN. So Commerce would be two blocks south of Elm?
Mr. HOLMES. That's right.
He was two blocks away, but he was using binoculars so he had a good view of the limousine.
Mr. BELIN. Were you looking with the aid of any optical instrument?
Mr. HOLMES. I had a pair of 7 1/2 x 50 binoculars.
What did he see through his binoculars?
Mr. BELIN. What did you see after that?
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Kennedy leaned over against his wife, Mrs. Kennedy, as this thing, firecracker, looked like, come out. The car almost came to a stop, and Mrs. Kennedy pulled loose of him and crawled out over the turtleback of this Presidential car and was almost off of the back of the turtleback when a man from a car next to it came running up and I never--I got the impression in one way that she was trying to help him on the bumper. (VII, p. 291)
He too saw the car almost come to a stop. Our next witness is Mrs. Herman Clay and she gave a statement to the FBI (don’t look for it on McAdams’ site). Here is what she said.
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www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0336a.gif
Just a few seconds after the car in which President John F. Kennedy was riding passed the position where I was standing, I heard a shot. At first I thought it might be a firecracker or a motorcycle backfire, but when I heard the second and third shots I knew something was wrong. At this point the car President Kennedy was in slowed and I, along with others, moved toward the President’s car. As we neared the car it sped off. (CE 1381, p. 641; p. 20 in original)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0336a.htm
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She too saw the car slow down as the shots were being heard. Our next witness is Rose Clark. She gave a statement to the FBI and it included this comment.
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She noted that the second and third shots seemed closer together than the first and second shots. It was her impression that bystanders on the sidewalk on Elm Street ran toward the cement pavilion on the north side of Elm Street, and she noticed that the President's automobile came almost to a halt following the three shots, before it picked up speed and drove away. (CE 2100, p. 533; p. 1 in original)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0276a.htm
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Ms. Clark is yet another witness that saw the limousine almost came to a stop. Hugh Betzner was busy filming the motorcade and this is what he said in his FBI interview.
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I started to wind my film again and I heard a loud noise. I thought that this noise was either a firecracker or a car had backfired. I looked up and it seemed like there was another loud noise in the matter of a few seconds. I looked down the street and I could see the President's car and another one and they looked like the cars were stopped… I walked down toward where the President's car had stopped. (CE 2003, p. 200; p. 7 in original)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0109b.htm
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Another witness for seeing the Presidential limousine stopped. Charles Brehm was very close to the limousine and this is what he said in this FBI statement.
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BREHM expressed his opinion that between the first and third shots, the President's car only seemed to move 10 or 12 feet. It seemed to him that the automobile almost came to a halt after the first shot, but of this he is not certain. After the third shot, the car in which the President was riding increased its speed and went under the freeway overpass and out of his sight. (CE 1426, p. 838; p. 2 in original)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0434b.htm
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He said the limousine moved ONLY 10 to 12 feet during the WHOLE shooting sequence! So much for using maneuvering and speed for safety, huh? Why do all these witnesses say after the third shot (head shot that killed JFK) the limousine SPED UP! Isn’t that a little late? Not if it was it the plan I guess.
Here are some more witness statements about this (these were compiled by Vince Palamara for his article 59 Witnesses: Delay on Elm Street, 1998)
1) UPI White House Reporter Merriman Smith (rode in the same car as Clark, above)---"The President's car, possibly as much as 150 or 200 yards ahead, seemed to falter briefly." [UPI story, 11/23/63, as reported in "Four Days", UPI, p. 32]
2) DPD motorcycle officer James W. Courson (one of two mid-motorcade motorcycles)--"The limousine came to a stop and Mrs. Kennedy was on the back. I noticed that as I came around the corner at Elm. Then the Secret Service agent [Clint Hill] helped push her back into the car, and the motorcade took off at a high rate of speed." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 129]
3) DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Joe Dale (one of two rear mid-motorcade motorcycles)---"After the shots were fired, the whole motorcade came to a stop. I stood and looked through the plaza, noticed there was commotion, and saw people running around his [JFK's] car. It started to move, then it slowed again; that's when I saw Mrs. Kennedy coming back on the trunk and another guy [Clint Hill] pushing her back into the car." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 134]
4) Clemon Earl Johnson---"You could see it [the limo] speed up and then stop, then speed up, and you could see it stop while they [sic; Clint Hill] threw Mrs. Kennedy back up in the car. Then they just left out of there like a bat of the eye and were just gone." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 80]
5) Malcolm Summers---"Then there was some hesitation in the caravan itself, a momentary halt, to give the Secret Service man [Clint Hill] a chance to catch up with the car and jump on. It seems to me that it started back up by the time he got to the car "["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 104]
6) NBC reporter Robert MacNeil (rode in White House Press Bus)---"The President's driver slammed on the brakes---after the third shot " ["The Way We Were, 1963: The Year Kennedy Was Shot" by Robert MacNeil (1988), p. 193]
7) AP photographer Henry Burroughs (rode in Camera Car #2)---"we heard the shots and the motorcade stopped." [letter, Burroughs to Palamara, dated 10/14/98]
8) DPD motorcycle officer B.J. Martin (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists)---saw JFK's car stop "just for a moment." ["Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71]
9) DPD motorcycle officer Douglas L. Jackson (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists)---stated "that the car just all but stopped just a moment." ["Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71]
10) Texas Highway Patrolman Joe Henry Rich (drove LBJ's car)---stated that "the motorcade came to a stop momentarily." ["Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71]
11) DPD J.W. Foster---stated that "immediately after President Kennedy was struck the car in which he was riding pulled to the curb." [CD 897, pp. 20, 21; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 97]
12) Secret Service Agent William "Tim" McIntyre (follow-up car)---"He stated that Greer, driver of the Presidential limousine, accelerated after the third shot." [RIF#180-10082-10454: 1/31/78 HSCA interview]
13) Secret Service Agent Winston Lawson (rode in the lead car)---"I think it [the lead car on Elm Street] was a little further ahead [of JFK's limo] than it had been in the motorcade, because when I looked back we were further ahead." [4 H 352], an indication of the lag in the limo during the assassination.
14) Mrs. Phil (Marilyn) Willis---after the fatal head shot, "she stated the Presidential limousine paused momentarily and then sped away under the Triple Underpass." [FBI report dated 6/19/64; "Photographic Whitewash" by Harold Weisberg (1967), p. 179]
15) Dallas Morning News reporter Robert Baskin (rode in the National Press Pool Car)---stated that "the motorcade ground to a halt." ["Dallas Morning News", 11/23/63, p. 2; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71]
16) AP photographer James Altgens---"He said the President's car was proceeding at about ten miles per hour at the time [of the shooting] Altgens stated the driver of the Presidential limousine apparently realized what had happened and speeded up toward the Stemmons Expressway." [FBI report dated 6/5/64; "Photographic Whitewash" by Harold Weisberg (1967), p. 203] "The car's driver realized what had happened and almost if by reflex speeded up toward the Stemmons Expressway." [AP dispatch, 11/22/63; "Cover-Up" by Stewart Galanor (1998), Document 28]
17) Alan Smith---" the car was ten feet from me when a bullet hit the President in the forehead the car went about five feet and stopped." ["Chicago Tribune", 11/23/63, p. 9; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71]
18) L.P. Terry---"The parade stopped right in front of the building [TSBD]." ["Crossfire" by Jim Marrs (1989), p. 26]
Obviously some of the witnesses think the stopping was after the head shot and some thought it was before, but we can see from the Z-film that it was NOT going very fast at the time of the head shot. It certainly didn't appear to be going very fast at the time of the head shot.
files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a23bfe7c2acc.jpg
heartofcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/jfk-presidential-motorcade-dallas-1963-1536x864.jpg
static.life.com/wp-content/uploads/migrated/2014/10/jfk-zapruder-film-01-1024x573.jpg
Harry Holmes:
i2.wp.com/www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Harry-D-Holmes.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) said that the Presidential limousine did not come to a stop or slow to a near stop during the shooting of President John F. Kennedy (JFK). They used the testimony of the driver of the limousine Secret Service (SS) Agent William Greer for the basis of this claim. This article will continue to look at the many witnesses who said the limousine either stopped or came to a near stop during the shooting sequence that disputed what Greer had said and the WC accepted.
********************************************
Our first witness in this article will be the “triple threat” Postal Inspector Harry Holmes. He was watching the motorcade from the fifth floor of his annex building located at Houston and Commerce Streets.
Mr. BELIN. Where were you on November 22, 1963, around noon or so. That in the day of the assassination?
Mr. HOLMES. I was in my office on the fifth floor of the terminal annex building located at the corner of Houston and Commerce Streets, Dallas, Tex.
Mr. BELIN. Houston and Commerce Streets in Dallas. Now, where is Commerce with relation to Elm?
Mr. HOLMES. Commerce, Main, Elm--two blocks.
Mr. BELIN. So Commerce would be two blocks south of Elm?
Mr. HOLMES. That's right.
He was two blocks away, but he was using binoculars so he had a good view of the limousine.
Mr. BELIN. Were you looking with the aid of any optical instrument?
Mr. HOLMES. I had a pair of 7 1/2 x 50 binoculars.
What did he see through his binoculars?
Mr. BELIN. What did you see after that?
Mr. HOLMES. Mr. Kennedy leaned over against his wife, Mrs. Kennedy, as this thing, firecracker, looked like, come out. The car almost came to a stop, and Mrs. Kennedy pulled loose of him and crawled out over the turtleback of this Presidential car and was almost off of the back of the turtleback when a man from a car next to it came running up and I never--I got the impression in one way that she was trying to help him on the bumper. (VII, p. 291)
He too saw the car almost come to a stop. Our next witness is Mrs. Herman Clay and she gave a statement to the FBI (don’t look for it on McAdams’ site). Here is what she said.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0336a.gif
Just a few seconds after the car in which President John F. Kennedy was riding passed the position where I was standing, I heard a shot. At first I thought it might be a firecracker or a motorcycle backfire, but when I heard the second and third shots I knew something was wrong. At this point the car President Kennedy was in slowed and I, along with others, moved toward the President’s car. As we neared the car it sped off. (CE 1381, p. 641; p. 20 in original)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0336a.htm
Quote off
She too saw the car slow down as the shots were being heard. Our next witness is Rose Clark. She gave a statement to the FBI and it included this comment.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pages/WH_Vol24_0276a.gif
She noted that the second and third shots seemed closer together than the first and second shots. It was her impression that bystanders on the sidewalk on Elm Street ran toward the cement pavilion on the north side of Elm Street, and she noticed that the President's automobile came almost to a halt following the three shots, before it picked up speed and drove away. (CE 2100, p. 533; p. 1 in original)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0276a.htm
Quote off
Ms. Clark is yet another witness that saw the limousine almost came to a stop. Hugh Betzner was busy filming the motorcade and this is what he said in his FBI interview.
Quote on
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/pages/WH_Vol24_0109b.gif
I started to wind my film again and I heard a loud noise. I thought that this noise was either a firecracker or a car had backfired. I looked up and it seemed like there was another loud noise in the matter of a few seconds. I looked down the street and I could see the President's car and another one and they looked like the cars were stopped… I walked down toward where the President's car had stopped. (CE 2003, p. 200; p. 7 in original)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0109b.htm
Quote off
Another witness for seeing the Presidential limousine stopped. Charles Brehm was very close to the limousine and this is what he said in this FBI statement.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0434b.gif
BREHM expressed his opinion that between the first and third shots, the President's car only seemed to move 10 or 12 feet. It seemed to him that the automobile almost came to a halt after the first shot, but of this he is not certain. After the third shot, the car in which the President was riding increased its speed and went under the freeway overpass and out of his sight. (CE 1426, p. 838; p. 2 in original)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0434b.htm
Quote off
He said the limousine moved ONLY 10 to 12 feet during the WHOLE shooting sequence! So much for using maneuvering and speed for safety, huh? Why do all these witnesses say after the third shot (head shot that killed JFK) the limousine SPED UP! Isn’t that a little late? Not if it was it the plan I guess.
Here are some more witness statements about this (these were compiled by Vince Palamara for his article 59 Witnesses: Delay on Elm Street, 1998)
1) UPI White House Reporter Merriman Smith (rode in the same car as Clark, above)---"The President's car, possibly as much as 150 or 200 yards ahead, seemed to falter briefly." [UPI story, 11/23/63, as reported in "Four Days", UPI, p. 32]
2) DPD motorcycle officer James W. Courson (one of two mid-motorcade motorcycles)--"The limousine came to a stop and Mrs. Kennedy was on the back. I noticed that as I came around the corner at Elm. Then the Secret Service agent [Clint Hill] helped push her back into the car, and the motorcade took off at a high rate of speed." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 129]
3) DPD motorcycle officer Bobby Joe Dale (one of two rear mid-motorcade motorcycles)---"After the shots were fired, the whole motorcade came to a stop. I stood and looked through the plaza, noticed there was commotion, and saw people running around his [JFK's] car. It started to move, then it slowed again; that's when I saw Mrs. Kennedy coming back on the trunk and another guy [Clint Hill] pushing her back into the car." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 134]
4) Clemon Earl Johnson---"You could see it [the limo] speed up and then stop, then speed up, and you could see it stop while they [sic; Clint Hill] threw Mrs. Kennedy back up in the car. Then they just left out of there like a bat of the eye and were just gone." ["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 80]
5) Malcolm Summers---"Then there was some hesitation in the caravan itself, a momentary halt, to give the Secret Service man [Clint Hill] a chance to catch up with the car and jump on. It seems to me that it started back up by the time he got to the car "["No More Silence" by Larry Sneed (1998), p. 104]
6) NBC reporter Robert MacNeil (rode in White House Press Bus)---"The President's driver slammed on the brakes---after the third shot " ["The Way We Were, 1963: The Year Kennedy Was Shot" by Robert MacNeil (1988), p. 193]
7) AP photographer Henry Burroughs (rode in Camera Car #2)---"we heard the shots and the motorcade stopped." [letter, Burroughs to Palamara, dated 10/14/98]
8) DPD motorcycle officer B.J. Martin (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists)---saw JFK's car stop "just for a moment." ["Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71]
9) DPD motorcycle officer Douglas L. Jackson (one of the four Presidential motorcyclists)---stated "that the car just all but stopped just a moment." ["Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71]
10) Texas Highway Patrolman Joe Henry Rich (drove LBJ's car)---stated that "the motorcade came to a stop momentarily." ["Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71]
11) DPD J.W. Foster---stated that "immediately after President Kennedy was struck the car in which he was riding pulled to the curb." [CD 897, pp. 20, 21; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 97]
12) Secret Service Agent William "Tim" McIntyre (follow-up car)---"He stated that Greer, driver of the Presidential limousine, accelerated after the third shot." [RIF#180-10082-10454: 1/31/78 HSCA interview]
13) Secret Service Agent Winston Lawson (rode in the lead car)---"I think it [the lead car on Elm Street] was a little further ahead [of JFK's limo] than it had been in the motorcade, because when I looked back we were further ahead." [4 H 352], an indication of the lag in the limo during the assassination.
14) Mrs. Phil (Marilyn) Willis---after the fatal head shot, "she stated the Presidential limousine paused momentarily and then sped away under the Triple Underpass." [FBI report dated 6/19/64; "Photographic Whitewash" by Harold Weisberg (1967), p. 179]
15) Dallas Morning News reporter Robert Baskin (rode in the National Press Pool Car)---stated that "the motorcade ground to a halt." ["Dallas Morning News", 11/23/63, p. 2; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71]
16) AP photographer James Altgens---"He said the President's car was proceeding at about ten miles per hour at the time [of the shooting] Altgens stated the driver of the Presidential limousine apparently realized what had happened and speeded up toward the Stemmons Expressway." [FBI report dated 6/5/64; "Photographic Whitewash" by Harold Weisberg (1967), p. 203] "The car's driver realized what had happened and almost if by reflex speeded up toward the Stemmons Expressway." [AP dispatch, 11/22/63; "Cover-Up" by Stewart Galanor (1998), Document 28]
17) Alan Smith---" the car was ten feet from me when a bullet hit the President in the forehead the car went about five feet and stopped." ["Chicago Tribune", 11/23/63, p. 9; "Murder From Within" by Fred Newcomb & Perry Adams (1974), p. 71]
18) L.P. Terry---"The parade stopped right in front of the building [TSBD]." ["Crossfire" by Jim Marrs (1989), p. 26]
Obviously some of the witnesses think the stopping was after the head shot and some thought it was before, but we can see from the Z-film that it was NOT going very fast at the time of the head shot. It certainly didn't appear to be going very fast at the time of the head shot.