Post by Rob Caprio on Jul 20, 2024 20:10:23 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2025
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The Warren Commission (WC) said that the Presidential limousine did not come to a stop or slow to a near stop during the shooting of President John F. Kennedy (JFK). They used the testimony of the driver of the limousine Secret Service (SS) Agent William Greer for the basis of this claim. This post will continue to look at the many witnesses who said the limousine either stopped or came to a near stop during the shooting sequence that disputed what Greer had said and the WC accepted.
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We have seen nearly forty witnesses say they saw the presidential limousine either come to a stop or to a near stop, and yet, the WC said this in their Report.
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www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0037a.gif
A more precise determination has been made from motion pictures taken on the scene by an amateur photographer, Abraham Zapruder. Based on these films, the speed of the President’s automobile is computed at an average 11.2 miles per hour. The car MAINTAINED this average speed over a distance of approximately 136 feet immediately preceding the shot which struck the President in the head. (WCR, p. 49) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0037a.htm
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I have more too, but will save that for after you read even more witness testimony regarding this issue. WC defenders like to claim witnesses are unreliable, and that is the case sometimes, but when you have 59 of them saying nearly the same thing this is NOT the case.
Mary Moorman was one of the closest witnesses to the shooting and would take a famous photograph that matched up with Zapruder frame 312. She would tell the FBI this on November 22, 1963.
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www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0434b.gif
She recalls that the President’s automobile was moving at the time she took the second picture, and when she heard the shots, and has the impression that the car either STOPPED MOMENTARILY or hesitated and then drove off in a hurry. (Commission Exhibit (CE) 1426, p. 838; p. 1 in original) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0434b.htm
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We see the same comment again, thus, the witnesses all corroborate each other and that dramatically raises their credibility. This also makes the WC’s claim of the automobile maintaining a “11.2 mph” speed false.
Our next witness was also very close to the limousine—Jean Hill. She would tell the WC the following in her testimony.
Mr. SPECTER - Where was the President's car at the time you thought you heard the fourth shot?
Mrs. HILL - The motorcade came to almost a halt at the time the shots rang out, and I would say it was just approximately, if not---it couldn't have been in the same position, I'm sure it wasn't, but just a very, very short distance from where it had been. It was just almost stunned.
Ms. Hill has been attacked over the years by WC defenders and made to look foolish, but surely she could tell whether an automobile was moving or nearly stopped, right?
Our next witness is Senator Ralph Yarborough, and he was in the motorcade. He too would NOT be called by the WC (which is absurd given his position and the fact he was in the motorcade) but would give an affidavit to the FBI.
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www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pages/WC_Vol7_0224a.gif
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pages/WC_Vol7_0224b.gif
After the Presidential motorcade had passed through the heart of downtown Dallas, experiencing an exceptionally warm and friendly greeting, as the motorcade went down the slope of Elm Street toward the railroad underpass, a rifle shot was heard by me; a loud blast, close by. I have handled firearms for fifty year, and thought immediately that it was a rifle shot. When the noise of the shot was heard, the motorcade slowed to what seemed to me a complete stop (though it could have been a near stop). After what I took to be about three seconds, another shot boomed out, and after what I took to be one-half the time between the first and second shots (calculated now, this would have put the third shot about one and one-half seconds after the second shot--by my estimate--to me there seemed to be a long time between the first and second shots, a much shorter time between the second and third shots--these were my impressions that day), a third shot was fired. After the third shot was fired, but only after the third shot was fired, the cavalcade speeded up, gained speed rapidly, and roared away to the Parkland Hospital. (VII, pp. 439-440)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0224a.htm
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He is very clear here when he says ONLY after the third shot (the fatal one) was fired did the motorcade speed up. Why?
Other comments about this issue came from the media and are as follows:
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In the right hand picture (a frame of the Munchmore film), the driver SLAMS ON THE BRAKES and the police escort pulls up. –UPI’s Four Days, (1964), p. 17
For a chaotic moment, the motorcade ground to an uncertain halt. –Newsweek, (12/2/63), p. 2
There was a shocking momentary stillness, a frozen tableau. –Time, (11/29/63), p. 23
Incredibly, SA Greer, sensing that something was wrong in the back of the car, slowed the vehicle to ALMOST A STANDSTILL. –Gerald Posner, Case Clolsed, (1993), p. 234 (Emphasis mine)
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Why would Greer do as Posner says when he told FBI Agents Sibert and O’Neill this on November 22, 1963?
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Greer stated that they (the Secret Service) have always been instructed to keep the motorcade moving at a considerable speed inasmuch as a moving car offers a much more difficult target than a vehicle traveling at a very slow speed. He pointed out that on numerous occasions he has attempted to keep the car moving at a rather fast rate, but in view of the President's popularity and desire to maintain close liaison with the people, he has, on occasion, been instructed by the President to "slow down". Greer stated that he has been asking himself if there was any thing he could have done to have avoided this incident, but stated that things happened so fast that he could not account for full developments in this matter(!) [the "JFK-as-scapegoat" theme…and so much for Greer's remorse from earlier the same day!]."(Sibert & O'Neil Report, 11/22/63) (59 Witnesses: Delay on Elm Street, Part Two, (Revised update-1998), by Vince Palamara)
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Is there any evidence for JFK telling him to “slow down” as he claims? I doubt it since there is none for the claim of JFK telling the SS to stay off the limousine. They constantly want to blame the dead President for everything. Why?
Even the SS told the WC the following.
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www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0239a.gif
The Secret Service has consistently followed two general principles in emergencies involving the President. ALL AGENTS ARE SO INSTRUCTED. The first duty of the agents in the motorcade is to attempt to COVER the President as closely as possible and practicable and to shield him by attempting to place themselves between the President and any source of danger. Secondly, agents are instructed to REMOVE the President as quickly as possible from known or impending danger…Their primary responsibility is to stay with and to PROTECT the President. (WCR, p. 453) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0239a.htm
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We saw NONE of this happening on November 22, 1963. Why? SS Agent Kellerman said NOTHING could stop him from getting to the President “if the need was there”, but we did NOT see him budge from his seat. Why?
Mr. SPECTER. Did you consider presenting a further shield for the President at that time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did the metallic handhold which you described early in your testimony as being about 15 inches off the top of the seat and going all the way across the width of the car, did that metal structure present any substantial impediment to your moving from the front seat to the rear seat of the automobile?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, I think it would have been a small obstacle. However, let me say this: If I thought in my own mind that I was needed back there, there wouldn't have been an obstacle strong enough to hold me.
After reading this doesn’t it seem odd to you he did NOT attempt to do what he was instructed (and trained) to do? Finally, we see this from the WC in their “speculation” section of their report. After reading this you have to wonder how they arrive at this conclusion given ALL the evidence to the contrary.
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www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0333a.gif
Speculation.—The Presidential car stopped momentarily or almost came to a complete stop halt after the first shot. This is evidence that the driver had the impression that the first shot came from the front and therefore hesitated to drive closer to the overpass.
Commission Finding.—The Presidential car did NOT STOP or almost come to a complete halt after the firing of the first shot or any other shots. The driver, Special Agent William R. Greer, has testified that he accelerated the car after what was probably the second shot. Motion pictures of the scene show that the car slowed down momentarily after the shot that struck the President in the head and then speeded up rapidly. (WCR, p. 641) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0333a.htm
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Despite all the evidence presented in these four articles (#215-#218) we see the WC claim the car did NOT slow down until AFTER THE HEAD SHOT. We again see the WC ignored its own evidence found in the twenty-six volumes to reach a conclusion that has NO basis in fact.
files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/a23bfe7c2acc.jpg
heartofcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/jfk-presidential-motorcade-dallas-1963-1536x864.jpg
static.life.com/wp-content/uploads/migrated/2014/10/jfk-zapruder-film-01-1024x573.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) said that the Presidential limousine did not come to a stop or slow to a near stop during the shooting of President John F. Kennedy (JFK). They used the testimony of the driver of the limousine Secret Service (SS) Agent William Greer for the basis of this claim. This post will continue to look at the many witnesses who said the limousine either stopped or came to a near stop during the shooting sequence that disputed what Greer had said and the WC accepted.
**********************************************
We have seen nearly forty witnesses say they saw the presidential limousine either come to a stop or to a near stop, and yet, the WC said this in their Report.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0037a.gif
A more precise determination has been made from motion pictures taken on the scene by an amateur photographer, Abraham Zapruder. Based on these films, the speed of the President’s automobile is computed at an average 11.2 miles per hour. The car MAINTAINED this average speed over a distance of approximately 136 feet immediately preceding the shot which struck the President in the head. (WCR, p. 49) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0037a.htm
Quote off
I have more too, but will save that for after you read even more witness testimony regarding this issue. WC defenders like to claim witnesses are unreliable, and that is the case sometimes, but when you have 59 of them saying nearly the same thing this is NOT the case.
Mary Moorman was one of the closest witnesses to the shooting and would take a famous photograph that matched up with Zapruder frame 312. She would tell the FBI this on November 22, 1963.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0434b.gif
She recalls that the President’s automobile was moving at the time she took the second picture, and when she heard the shots, and has the impression that the car either STOPPED MOMENTARILY or hesitated and then drove off in a hurry. (Commission Exhibit (CE) 1426, p. 838; p. 1 in original) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0434b.htm
Quote off
We see the same comment again, thus, the witnesses all corroborate each other and that dramatically raises their credibility. This also makes the WC’s claim of the automobile maintaining a “11.2 mph” speed false.
Our next witness was also very close to the limousine—Jean Hill. She would tell the WC the following in her testimony.
Mr. SPECTER - Where was the President's car at the time you thought you heard the fourth shot?
Mrs. HILL - The motorcade came to almost a halt at the time the shots rang out, and I would say it was just approximately, if not---it couldn't have been in the same position, I'm sure it wasn't, but just a very, very short distance from where it had been. It was just almost stunned.
Ms. Hill has been attacked over the years by WC defenders and made to look foolish, but surely she could tell whether an automobile was moving or nearly stopped, right?
Our next witness is Senator Ralph Yarborough, and he was in the motorcade. He too would NOT be called by the WC (which is absurd given his position and the fact he was in the motorcade) but would give an affidavit to the FBI.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pages/WC_Vol7_0224a.gif
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/pages/WC_Vol7_0224b.gif
After the Presidential motorcade had passed through the heart of downtown Dallas, experiencing an exceptionally warm and friendly greeting, as the motorcade went down the slope of Elm Street toward the railroad underpass, a rifle shot was heard by me; a loud blast, close by. I have handled firearms for fifty year, and thought immediately that it was a rifle shot. When the noise of the shot was heard, the motorcade slowed to what seemed to me a complete stop (though it could have been a near stop). After what I took to be about three seconds, another shot boomed out, and after what I took to be one-half the time between the first and second shots (calculated now, this would have put the third shot about one and one-half seconds after the second shot--by my estimate--to me there seemed to be a long time between the first and second shots, a much shorter time between the second and third shots--these were my impressions that day), a third shot was fired. After the third shot was fired, but only after the third shot was fired, the cavalcade speeded up, gained speed rapidly, and roared away to the Parkland Hospital. (VII, pp. 439-440)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh7/html/WC_Vol7_0224a.htm
Quote off
He is very clear here when he says ONLY after the third shot (the fatal one) was fired did the motorcade speed up. Why?
Other comments about this issue came from the media and are as follows:
Quote on
In the right hand picture (a frame of the Munchmore film), the driver SLAMS ON THE BRAKES and the police escort pulls up. –UPI’s Four Days, (1964), p. 17
For a chaotic moment, the motorcade ground to an uncertain halt. –Newsweek, (12/2/63), p. 2
There was a shocking momentary stillness, a frozen tableau. –Time, (11/29/63), p. 23
Incredibly, SA Greer, sensing that something was wrong in the back of the car, slowed the vehicle to ALMOST A STANDSTILL. –Gerald Posner, Case Clolsed, (1993), p. 234 (Emphasis mine)
Quote off
Why would Greer do as Posner says when he told FBI Agents Sibert and O’Neill this on November 22, 1963?
Quote on
Greer stated that they (the Secret Service) have always been instructed to keep the motorcade moving at a considerable speed inasmuch as a moving car offers a much more difficult target than a vehicle traveling at a very slow speed. He pointed out that on numerous occasions he has attempted to keep the car moving at a rather fast rate, but in view of the President's popularity and desire to maintain close liaison with the people, he has, on occasion, been instructed by the President to "slow down". Greer stated that he has been asking himself if there was any thing he could have done to have avoided this incident, but stated that things happened so fast that he could not account for full developments in this matter(!) [the "JFK-as-scapegoat" theme…and so much for Greer's remorse from earlier the same day!]."(Sibert & O'Neil Report, 11/22/63) (59 Witnesses: Delay on Elm Street, Part Two, (Revised update-1998), by Vince Palamara)
Quote off
Is there any evidence for JFK telling him to “slow down” as he claims? I doubt it since there is none for the claim of JFK telling the SS to stay off the limousine. They constantly want to blame the dead President for everything. Why?
Even the SS told the WC the following.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0239a.gif
The Secret Service has consistently followed two general principles in emergencies involving the President. ALL AGENTS ARE SO INSTRUCTED. The first duty of the agents in the motorcade is to attempt to COVER the President as closely as possible and practicable and to shield him by attempting to place themselves between the President and any source of danger. Secondly, agents are instructed to REMOVE the President as quickly as possible from known or impending danger…Their primary responsibility is to stay with and to PROTECT the President. (WCR, p. 453) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0239a.htm
Quote off
We saw NONE of this happening on November 22, 1963. Why? SS Agent Kellerman said NOTHING could stop him from getting to the President “if the need was there”, but we did NOT see him budge from his seat. Why?
Mr. SPECTER. Did you consider presenting a further shield for the President at that time?
Mr. KELLERMAN. No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER. Did the metallic handhold which you described early in your testimony as being about 15 inches off the top of the seat and going all the way across the width of the car, did that metal structure present any substantial impediment to your moving from the front seat to the rear seat of the automobile?
Mr. KELLERMAN. Mr. Specter, I think it would have been a small obstacle. However, let me say this: If I thought in my own mind that I was needed back there, there wouldn't have been an obstacle strong enough to hold me.
After reading this doesn’t it seem odd to you he did NOT attempt to do what he was instructed (and trained) to do? Finally, we see this from the WC in their “speculation” section of their report. After reading this you have to wonder how they arrive at this conclusion given ALL the evidence to the contrary.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0333a.gif
Speculation.—The Presidential car stopped momentarily or almost came to a complete stop halt after the first shot. This is evidence that the driver had the impression that the first shot came from the front and therefore hesitated to drive closer to the overpass.
Commission Finding.—The Presidential car did NOT STOP or almost come to a complete halt after the firing of the first shot or any other shots. The driver, Special Agent William R. Greer, has testified that he accelerated the car after what was probably the second shot. Motion pictures of the scene show that the car slowed down momentarily after the shot that struck the President in the head and then speeded up rapidly. (WCR, p. 641) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0333a.htm
Quote off
Despite all the evidence presented in these four articles (#215-#218) we see the WC claim the car did NOT slow down until AFTER THE HEAD SHOT. We again see the WC ignored its own evidence found in the twenty-six volumes to reach a conclusion that has NO basis in fact.