Post by Rob Caprio on May 4, 2019 21:29:59 GMT -5
All portions ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
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One of the biggest mysteries of what happened in Dealey Plaza (DP) on November 22, 1963, has been the detention of what have become known as the three tramps. Who were these men? We still don’t know for sure as the Dallas Police Department (DPD) have never been forthcoming on who they were with certainty. They were detained, but we are not told who they were and documents pertaining to their detention have not been presented since the DPD did not book them, fingerprint them or photograph them. Many names of people have been bandied about, but will we ever know who they were with no doubts?
The HSCA says…The Three Tramps.
*************************************
The House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) wrote the following about this issue in their volumes.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0132a.gif
(660) Immediately after the assassination, law enforcement officers conducted a search of the area behind the grassy knoll in which several railroad boxcars were situated. As a result of this search, approximately six to eight persons who appeared to be derelicts were taken either to the nearby Dallas County Sheriff's office, or to the Dallas Police Department for questioning. All were released without being booked, fingerprinted or photographed. Among these "derelicts" were three men who, according to the arresting officers, had been found in a boxcar approximately one-half mile south of the assassination scene. As the police led the three derelicts through Dealey Plaza to the sheriff's office, they were photographed by several press photographers. HSCA VI, p. 257)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/html/HSCA_Vol6_0132a.htm
Quote off
We read here that the men detained were NOT booked, fingerprinted or photographed and we have to ask why NOT? With all the chaos going on at the time immediately after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy (JFK), how could the DPD be so sure none of these people had anything to do with it? They couldn’t of course, so why did they just let these men go with NO record being made to show who they were? What were they afraid of showing? The HSCA mentions that these men, the three in particular that have become known as the “Three Tramps”, were photographed by press photographers during their march from the railroad area to the Sheriff’s office and these photos have been studied a lot over the years.
It has been noted that none of the three look like tramps based on recent haircuts, clean and well cared for clothing, and good shoes, so why was it thought they were “tramps?” Who told the DPD members that found them and escorted them to the Sheriff’s office that they were tramps-the men themselves? Or did someone else tell them this? Why did the deputies at the Sheriff’s office assume they were just tramps and had no connection to the events of November 22, 1963 too? What made them NOT do anything to record their presence in their office that day? These are extremely important questions we have never gotten any satisfactory answers too, but if you ask why not you are called a “Wise one” by the WC defenders. Does that make any sense to you?
The HSCA mentions a few names as to who some have thought were the tramps in their next paragraph.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0132a.gif
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0132b.gif
(661) When allegations of a CIA connection with President Kennedy's death emerged in the years following the assassination, these photographs received wide publicity in newspapers, television and in the April 28, 1975 issue of Newsweek magazine. It was claimed that two of the derelicts or "tramps," as they had come to be called, bore striking resemblances to Watergate burglars E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis respectively. Allegations have been made that Hunt, who had been a CIA employee in 1963, Sturgis, who, while not an employee, had been involved in CIA-related activities, bad been together in Dallas on November 22, 1963 and had participated in the assassination as part of a CIA conspiracy. (Ibid., pp. 257-258)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/html/HSCA_Vol6_0132b.htm
Quote off
We read that two of the men believed to be the three tramps are E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis, but many others have been put forward as well. Researchers Alan J. Weberman and Michael Canfield wrote a book called, “Coup D’ Etat In America”, and they believed the three tramps were E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis and an unknown man called by the names of “Frenchy”, “Saul” and “Dan Carswell.” Of course many other names have been put forth too including Charles Harrelson (tall tramp) as he was a known hit man (father of actor Woody Harrelson). The point is we will never know for sure because the DPD and the Sheriff’s office never did their basic duty that day. Why? Was it just another in a long line of mistakes or did they purposely NOT want these men documented due to who they were and who they were affiliated with?
The Rockefeller Commission decided that neither man matched the descriptions of Hunt or Sturgis.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0132b.gif
(662) In 1975 the Rockefeller Commission, investigating CIA activities within the United States and allegations concerning CIA complicity in the Kennedy assassination, requested the FBI to compare known photographs of Hunt and Sturgis, taken near the time of the assassination, with photographs of the tramps each was said to resemble. After a photographic analysis of facial and statural characteristics of the men in question, the FBI concluded that "neither E. Howard Hunt nor Frank Sturgis appear as any of the three "derelicts" arrested in Dallas, Tex., as shown in the photographs submitted. In response to the 1975 Newsweek story, the CIA also conducted physiological comparison of the Hunt and Sturgis photographs with the tramp photographs, and reached the same conclusion as the FBI. (Ibid., p. 258)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/html/HSCA_Vol6_0132b.htm
Quote off
This result of course goes into the “no shocker” category as both the Rockefeller Commission and Newsweek were not about to admit two men affiliated with the CIA were in Dallas on the day JFK was murdered. This would have opened up to many doors not only to the CIA, but would have also opened doors to other areas of the government as well. This simply could not be allowed. Despite these men never being processed as they should have that day, the HSCA still makes it sound like “critics” of the WC are being silly to wonder why these men were not identified by the DPD.
Quote on
(663) Nevertheless, Warren Commission critics still view as unresolved and the identity of the three tramps is still regarded an important part of the conspiracy theories. In addition to the Hunt and Sturgis connection, three other individuals. Thomas Vallee, Fred Lee Chrisman, and Daniel Carswell, who have been named as possible co-conspirators, have been suggested as likely tramp candidates. (Ibid.)
Quote off
Of course the “critics” would have an issue with men being detained, which means they were suspected of doing something, without them being processed or leaving a trace of who they were (i.e. identified). What normal person looking for the truth wouldn’t be upset by this huge omission? But, to the HSCA, you are a “critic” if you simply want the truth. At the time of the HSCA publishing they left out many other names that have been bandied about for the three tramps as well such as Charles Harrelson, Charles Rogers, Gus Abrams, Harold Doyle, John Gedney & Chauncey Holt. As you can see, quite a few people have been claimed to be one of the three tramps. This is why the DPD and the Sheriff’s department needed to process them and let us know who these men were for posterity, but alas, they did NOT and this says a lot about what was going on that day to me.
The HSCA would bring in forensic anthropologists to help try and identify the three tramps for us, but the issue right off the bat is they were limited to a select number of options. They used photographs of E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, Fred Lee Chrisman, Daniel Carswell and Thomas Vallee (supposed patsy for Chicago attempt). While I don’t have a problem with any of these men being one of the tramps we now know there are other options too. So why did the HSCA did not include them? The answers are either because they did not know about them or because they might have been the real men to pose as tramps. We won’t know the true answer now and this leaves a disturbing feeling for anyone interested in finding out the truth of what happened that day.
Here are conclusions of the HSCA forensic anthropologists.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0133a.gif
4. CONCLUSIONS
(673) Daniel Carswell, E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, and Thomas Vallee were not the tramp(s) with whom they were being compared. Fred Chrisman strongly resembles one of the tramps but, without analysis of additional photographic materials, no positive identification can be made. (Ibid., p. 259)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/html/HSCA_Vol6_0133a.htm
Quote off
Based on these findings it is was all the more imperative to learn about other options, but as we have seen the HSCA either did not or ignored those options. The one person I personally disagree about is E. Howard Hunt as he strongly resembles the older tramp in the photographs I have seen. He was also very vague about what he was doing that day and his own son would claim he was in Dallas on November 22, 1963, so we have to still wonder about him in my opinion. What do you think? The HSCA would then write something that many “critics” have had an issue with over the years.
Quote on
(675) All three men are shabbily dressed, befitting their apparent status as vagrants. Tramp A, however, is the better attired, wearing well-fitting jeans and a tweed-like sports jacket, although this, judged by 1963 styles, was several years out of date. Tramp B is wearing ill-fitting slacks and a double-breasted suit coat. Tramp C, from his battered fedora to his won-out shoes, has managed to achieve a sartorial effect similar to what one would expect had he been fired from a cannon through a Salvation Army thrift shop.
(676) While such clothing might be a disguise, their footwear seems consistent with their classification as vagrants. All three men are shod in worn, low-cut oxfords that appear to be leather-soled. Tramp C's shoes seem to be several sizes too large for him. (Ibid.)
Quote off
Many researchers have pointed out over the years that the shoes and clothing seen in the photographs is in too good a shape for a “vagrant” as claimed. The shoes do not appear to be worn or have holes in them, and the clothing also looks to be in good shape with no wear or holes. The HSCA claims the shoes are “worn”, but again, many have said the shoes look good to them. I have to agree as I have looked at the photographs again and their shoes look pretty good to me. In fact, what the HSCA failed to mention is that the shoes of the tall tramp (some say he is Frank Sturgis and others say he is Charles Harrelson) show mud on them that is deemed to be consistent with the mud texture behind the picket fence on the Grassy Knoll (GK). To me this is a huge omission to make as it could tell us more about what this person was doing there that day.
The same can be said for the hair as all three seem to show recent haircuts. How many vagrants have regular haircuts? Why was it not an alarm bell that supposed vagrants were well groomed to the DPD or Sheriff’s department? Perhaps it was and that is why none of them were processed to leave a trace of who they were. Obviously this did not cause any alarm bells for the HSCA either for some reason.
After a long summary of what they did for comparison purposes we come to their conclusion on Daniel Carswell.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0136a.gif
(731) In brief, Chrisman resembles Tramp C rather strongly in both metric and morphological features. These similarities, derived from the analysis of a single undated photograph of Chrisman, are in no way sufficient to establish a positive identification. Nevertheless, they are strong enough to suggest, that further analysis, based on more fully documented Chrisman photographs, should be considered, unless independent evidence excludes Chrisman's presence in Dallas on November 22, 1963. (Ibid., p. 265)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/html/HSCA_Vol6_0136a.htm
Quote off
So far as I know there was never any further evaluation of this issue to know if the one tramp was Chrisman or not. Why not? Based on this shoddy work why should we believe the HSCA in regards to their ruling out of Hunt, Sturgis, Carswell and Vallee then? What were the WC (who really didn’t even want to touch this issue) and the HSCA afraid of? What could the identification of these men show us? Where could those identifications lead to? Clearly to places the HSCA and all previous government bodies looking into this did NOT want us to know about, otherwise, the identification of the tramps would have been released many years ago. Does anyone really believe the Sheriff’s department or DPD did not process these men at all or in any way? Or that they did not bother to get their most basic information such as their names? I sure don’t.
This topic is not discussed as much as others in this case, but the identification of these men is vital to learning what happened that day in Dallas so many years ago, thus, we see the old tried and true weapon of obfuscation being employed as over the years more and more have come forward claiming to be a tramp or a picket fence shooter. To me these are probably red herrings meant to mislead us and make us waste time going off in the wrong directions.
Who do you think the three tramps were? What do you think their purpose was that day in Dallas? Please feel free to share you views on this as no one can say for sure who they were or why they were there so all opinions are most welcomed. Thanks in advance.
historycollection.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/The_Tree_Tramps.jpg
s3.amazonaws.com/headstuffuploads/2015/04/three_tramps.jpg
images.chr.bg/uploads/2019/10/E._Howard_Hunt__One_of_the_Three_Tramps_Arrested_after_JFK_Assassination.jpg
i.pinimg.com/originals/95/e2/95/95e295ab3c45835451ba0db22aa90193.jpg
2.bp.blogspot.com/_HuV_NHMdPd0/RgONeRQbckI/AAAAAAAAAFU/5rukIq00EjY/s400/harrelson.jpg
One of the biggest mysteries of what happened in Dealey Plaza (DP) on November 22, 1963, has been the detention of what have become known as the three tramps. Who were these men? We still don’t know for sure as the Dallas Police Department (DPD) have never been forthcoming on who they were with certainty. They were detained, but we are not told who they were and documents pertaining to their detention have not been presented since the DPD did not book them, fingerprint them or photograph them. Many names of people have been bandied about, but will we ever know who they were with no doubts?
The HSCA says…The Three Tramps.
*************************************
The House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) wrote the following about this issue in their volumes.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0132a.gif
(660) Immediately after the assassination, law enforcement officers conducted a search of the area behind the grassy knoll in which several railroad boxcars were situated. As a result of this search, approximately six to eight persons who appeared to be derelicts were taken either to the nearby Dallas County Sheriff's office, or to the Dallas Police Department for questioning. All were released without being booked, fingerprinted or photographed. Among these "derelicts" were three men who, according to the arresting officers, had been found in a boxcar approximately one-half mile south of the assassination scene. As the police led the three derelicts through Dealey Plaza to the sheriff's office, they were photographed by several press photographers. HSCA VI, p. 257)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/html/HSCA_Vol6_0132a.htm
Quote off
We read here that the men detained were NOT booked, fingerprinted or photographed and we have to ask why NOT? With all the chaos going on at the time immediately after the assassination of President John F. Kennedy (JFK), how could the DPD be so sure none of these people had anything to do with it? They couldn’t of course, so why did they just let these men go with NO record being made to show who they were? What were they afraid of showing? The HSCA mentions that these men, the three in particular that have become known as the “Three Tramps”, were photographed by press photographers during their march from the railroad area to the Sheriff’s office and these photos have been studied a lot over the years.
It has been noted that none of the three look like tramps based on recent haircuts, clean and well cared for clothing, and good shoes, so why was it thought they were “tramps?” Who told the DPD members that found them and escorted them to the Sheriff’s office that they were tramps-the men themselves? Or did someone else tell them this? Why did the deputies at the Sheriff’s office assume they were just tramps and had no connection to the events of November 22, 1963 too? What made them NOT do anything to record their presence in their office that day? These are extremely important questions we have never gotten any satisfactory answers too, but if you ask why not you are called a “Wise one” by the WC defenders. Does that make any sense to you?
The HSCA mentions a few names as to who some have thought were the tramps in their next paragraph.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0132a.gif
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0132b.gif
(661) When allegations of a CIA connection with President Kennedy's death emerged in the years following the assassination, these photographs received wide publicity in newspapers, television and in the April 28, 1975 issue of Newsweek magazine. It was claimed that two of the derelicts or "tramps," as they had come to be called, bore striking resemblances to Watergate burglars E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis respectively. Allegations have been made that Hunt, who had been a CIA employee in 1963, Sturgis, who, while not an employee, had been involved in CIA-related activities, bad been together in Dallas on November 22, 1963 and had participated in the assassination as part of a CIA conspiracy. (Ibid., pp. 257-258)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/html/HSCA_Vol6_0132b.htm
Quote off
We read that two of the men believed to be the three tramps are E. Howard Hunt and Frank Sturgis, but many others have been put forward as well. Researchers Alan J. Weberman and Michael Canfield wrote a book called, “Coup D’ Etat In America”, and they believed the three tramps were E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis and an unknown man called by the names of “Frenchy”, “Saul” and “Dan Carswell.” Of course many other names have been put forth too including Charles Harrelson (tall tramp) as he was a known hit man (father of actor Woody Harrelson). The point is we will never know for sure because the DPD and the Sheriff’s office never did their basic duty that day. Why? Was it just another in a long line of mistakes or did they purposely NOT want these men documented due to who they were and who they were affiliated with?
The Rockefeller Commission decided that neither man matched the descriptions of Hunt or Sturgis.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0132b.gif
(662) In 1975 the Rockefeller Commission, investigating CIA activities within the United States and allegations concerning CIA complicity in the Kennedy assassination, requested the FBI to compare known photographs of Hunt and Sturgis, taken near the time of the assassination, with photographs of the tramps each was said to resemble. After a photographic analysis of facial and statural characteristics of the men in question, the FBI concluded that "neither E. Howard Hunt nor Frank Sturgis appear as any of the three "derelicts" arrested in Dallas, Tex., as shown in the photographs submitted. In response to the 1975 Newsweek story, the CIA also conducted physiological comparison of the Hunt and Sturgis photographs with the tramp photographs, and reached the same conclusion as the FBI. (Ibid., p. 258)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/html/HSCA_Vol6_0132b.htm
Quote off
This result of course goes into the “no shocker” category as both the Rockefeller Commission and Newsweek were not about to admit two men affiliated with the CIA were in Dallas on the day JFK was murdered. This would have opened up to many doors not only to the CIA, but would have also opened doors to other areas of the government as well. This simply could not be allowed. Despite these men never being processed as they should have that day, the HSCA still makes it sound like “critics” of the WC are being silly to wonder why these men were not identified by the DPD.
Quote on
(663) Nevertheless, Warren Commission critics still view as unresolved and the identity of the three tramps is still regarded an important part of the conspiracy theories. In addition to the Hunt and Sturgis connection, three other individuals. Thomas Vallee, Fred Lee Chrisman, and Daniel Carswell, who have been named as possible co-conspirators, have been suggested as likely tramp candidates. (Ibid.)
Quote off
Of course the “critics” would have an issue with men being detained, which means they were suspected of doing something, without them being processed or leaving a trace of who they were (i.e. identified). What normal person looking for the truth wouldn’t be upset by this huge omission? But, to the HSCA, you are a “critic” if you simply want the truth. At the time of the HSCA publishing they left out many other names that have been bandied about for the three tramps as well such as Charles Harrelson, Charles Rogers, Gus Abrams, Harold Doyle, John Gedney & Chauncey Holt. As you can see, quite a few people have been claimed to be one of the three tramps. This is why the DPD and the Sheriff’s department needed to process them and let us know who these men were for posterity, but alas, they did NOT and this says a lot about what was going on that day to me.
The HSCA would bring in forensic anthropologists to help try and identify the three tramps for us, but the issue right off the bat is they were limited to a select number of options. They used photographs of E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, Fred Lee Chrisman, Daniel Carswell and Thomas Vallee (supposed patsy for Chicago attempt). While I don’t have a problem with any of these men being one of the tramps we now know there are other options too. So why did the HSCA did not include them? The answers are either because they did not know about them or because they might have been the real men to pose as tramps. We won’t know the true answer now and this leaves a disturbing feeling for anyone interested in finding out the truth of what happened that day.
Here are conclusions of the HSCA forensic anthropologists.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0133a.gif
4. CONCLUSIONS
(673) Daniel Carswell, E. Howard Hunt, Frank Sturgis, and Thomas Vallee were not the tramp(s) with whom they were being compared. Fred Chrisman strongly resembles one of the tramps but, without analysis of additional photographic materials, no positive identification can be made. (Ibid., p. 259)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/html/HSCA_Vol6_0133a.htm
Quote off
Based on these findings it is was all the more imperative to learn about other options, but as we have seen the HSCA either did not or ignored those options. The one person I personally disagree about is E. Howard Hunt as he strongly resembles the older tramp in the photographs I have seen. He was also very vague about what he was doing that day and his own son would claim he was in Dallas on November 22, 1963, so we have to still wonder about him in my opinion. What do you think? The HSCA would then write something that many “critics” have had an issue with over the years.
Quote on
(675) All three men are shabbily dressed, befitting their apparent status as vagrants. Tramp A, however, is the better attired, wearing well-fitting jeans and a tweed-like sports jacket, although this, judged by 1963 styles, was several years out of date. Tramp B is wearing ill-fitting slacks and a double-breasted suit coat. Tramp C, from his battered fedora to his won-out shoes, has managed to achieve a sartorial effect similar to what one would expect had he been fired from a cannon through a Salvation Army thrift shop.
(676) While such clothing might be a disguise, their footwear seems consistent with their classification as vagrants. All three men are shod in worn, low-cut oxfords that appear to be leather-soled. Tramp C's shoes seem to be several sizes too large for him. (Ibid.)
Quote off
Many researchers have pointed out over the years that the shoes and clothing seen in the photographs is in too good a shape for a “vagrant” as claimed. The shoes do not appear to be worn or have holes in them, and the clothing also looks to be in good shape with no wear or holes. The HSCA claims the shoes are “worn”, but again, many have said the shoes look good to them. I have to agree as I have looked at the photographs again and their shoes look pretty good to me. In fact, what the HSCA failed to mention is that the shoes of the tall tramp (some say he is Frank Sturgis and others say he is Charles Harrelson) show mud on them that is deemed to be consistent with the mud texture behind the picket fence on the Grassy Knoll (GK). To me this is a huge omission to make as it could tell us more about what this person was doing there that day.
The same can be said for the hair as all three seem to show recent haircuts. How many vagrants have regular haircuts? Why was it not an alarm bell that supposed vagrants were well groomed to the DPD or Sheriff’s department? Perhaps it was and that is why none of them were processed to leave a trace of who they were. Obviously this did not cause any alarm bells for the HSCA either for some reason.
After a long summary of what they did for comparison purposes we come to their conclusion on Daniel Carswell.
Quote on
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/pages/HSCA_Vol6_0136a.gif
(731) In brief, Chrisman resembles Tramp C rather strongly in both metric and morphological features. These similarities, derived from the analysis of a single undated photograph of Chrisman, are in no way sufficient to establish a positive identification. Nevertheless, they are strong enough to suggest, that further analysis, based on more fully documented Chrisman photographs, should be considered, unless independent evidence excludes Chrisman's presence in Dallas on November 22, 1963. (Ibid., p. 265)
www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol6/html/HSCA_Vol6_0136a.htm
Quote off
So far as I know there was never any further evaluation of this issue to know if the one tramp was Chrisman or not. Why not? Based on this shoddy work why should we believe the HSCA in regards to their ruling out of Hunt, Sturgis, Carswell and Vallee then? What were the WC (who really didn’t even want to touch this issue) and the HSCA afraid of? What could the identification of these men show us? Where could those identifications lead to? Clearly to places the HSCA and all previous government bodies looking into this did NOT want us to know about, otherwise, the identification of the tramps would have been released many years ago. Does anyone really believe the Sheriff’s department or DPD did not process these men at all or in any way? Or that they did not bother to get their most basic information such as their names? I sure don’t.
This topic is not discussed as much as others in this case, but the identification of these men is vital to learning what happened that day in Dallas so many years ago, thus, we see the old tried and true weapon of obfuscation being employed as over the years more and more have come forward claiming to be a tramp or a picket fence shooter. To me these are probably red herrings meant to mislead us and make us waste time going off in the wrong directions.
Who do you think the three tramps were? What do you think their purpose was that day in Dallas? Please feel free to share you views on this as no one can say for sure who they were or why they were there so all opinions are most welcomed. Thanks in advance.