Post by John Duncan on Jul 24, 2020 21:36:34 GMT -5
The Gun in the Bag
by Gil Jesus
At about 7 :30 am on November 23, 1963, a handgun was found near the curb at the corner of Ross and Lamar Streets. This gun was a Smith & Wesson .38 caliber revolver serial number 893265 with the word "England" stamped on the barrel, which was found in a brown paper bag with an apple and an orange. It was found by a man named Willie Flat, a white male, 9221 Metz Drive, employed at 4770 Memphis. It was turned over to Dallas Police officer J. Raz, who brought the bag and its contents into the Dallas Homicide and Robbery Division. (Memo to SAC from FBI Special Agent Richard E. Harrison dated 11/25/63--89-43-636.)
The FBI attempted to trace the owner of this weapon beginning with the manufacturer, Smith and Wesson in Springfield, Massachusetts. The SAC in Dallas sent a teletype the SAC in Boston requesting that they contact Smith and Wesson, advising that this weapon was found "in the general area of where assassination of President Kennedy took place". The FBI office in Boston found that this weapon was shipped on January 13, 1942, to the US Government, Hartford Ordinance, Hartford Connecticut. The Boston office explained that "shipments to Hartford Ordinance at that time were destined for England under the Lend-Lease agreement and stamping on cylinder is probably proof-mark of that government certifying its acceptance. Such weapons have been known to have been sold surplus in England, altered and rechambered to accommodate 38-special ammunition. Such weapons were subsequently imported for sale by US gun dealers." (FBI 62-109060-857)
The records were shipped to Letterkenny Ordinance in Philadelphia PA in 1950. The records were then transferred to the Commanding General, US Army Weapons Command, Rock Island, Illinois. The FBI teletype (62-109060-638) advises that the weapon was found in the "immediate vicinity" of the assassination area.
On November 30th, The FBI SAC in Springfield, Illinois sent a teletype to J. Edgar Hoover that there was "no record" at Rock Island of "Smith and Wesson 38 caliber revolver serial number 893265." (FBI 62-109060-858) Interestingly enough, the same teletype indicates that the FBI was checking the US Army Weapons Command for the records of Jack Ruby's .38 caliber handgun, serial number V51210 and found no record of that weapon either.
I suppose it should surprise no one (myself included) that the records the military is supposed to have of certain weapons either connected to, or possibly connected to, the assassination of the President of the United States have disappeared. If they had been legitimately sold to gun shop owners and gun dealers, there should have been a record of the transaction. The fact that there wasn't tells us that either Smith and Wesson keeps better record than the US military, or the military is hiding something here.
I can find no documentation or evidence that the FBI continued its search for the owner of this weapon. Could this have been the weapon of a conspirator (since it apparently had something in common with Ruby's weapon)? Why didn't the FBI pursue this lead until they either found a connection or reached a dead end? And what of the FBI's explanation that the weapon had been "rechambered" to accept .38 Special ammunition. Wasn't that what they said about the .38 they took from Oswald during his arrest? Could all of these weapons have been traced back to the military?
Here's the text of the documents relating to this found gun.
MEMORANDUM
TO SAC, DALLAS (89-43) DATE: 11/25/63
FROM SA RICHARD E. HARRISON
SUBJECT: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY
On 11/23/63, Patrolman J. RAZ brought into the Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith & Wesson, SN 893265.
This gun had the word "England" on the cylinder and had been found at approximately 7:30 AM in a brown paper sack, together with an apple and an orange, near the curb at the corner of Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat, white male, 9221 Metz Drive, employed at 4770 Memphis, to the Dallas PD.
2 - Dallas
REH:cah
(2) FBI DL 89-43-636
___
URGENT 11-29-63 6-10 PM RCS TO DIRECTOR AND SACS, DALLAS AND PHILADELPHIA
FROM SAC, BOSTON /89-43/ 2-P
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY, NOVEMBER
TWENTY-SECOND, SIXTYTHREE, DALLAS, TEXAS.
RE DALLAS TEL INSTANT DATE.
ON NOV. TWENTYNINE SIXTYTHREE FRED MILLER, SALESMANAGER OF SMITH AND WESSON INC., ADVISED SA THOMAS F. SULLIVAN THAT RECORDS SMITH AND WESSON, INC., SPRINGFIELD, MASS., DISCLOSE THIRTY-EIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE, WAS SHIPPED ON JANUARY THIRTEEN, FORTYTWO, TO U.S. GOVERNMENT, HARTFORD ORDNANCE, HARTFORD, CONN. HARTFORD ORDNANCE AT THAT TIME WAS DIVISION OF SPRINGFIELD ARMORY, SPRINGFIELD, MASS., AND ALL FIREARMS RECORDS AT THAT AGENCY WERE FORWARDED DURING NINETEEN FIFTY TO MISMS RECORDS CENTER, LETTERKENNY ORDNANCE, PHILADELPHIA, PA.
MILLER ADVISED HE BELIEVED SHIPMENTS TO HARTFORD ORDNANCE AT THAT TIME WERE DESTINED FOR ENGLAND UNDER LEND-LEASE AGREEMENT AND STAMPING ON CYLINDER IS PROBABLY A PROOF-MARK OF THAT GOVERNMENT CERTIFYING ITS ACCEPTANCE. SUCH WEAPONS ARE KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN SOLD SURPLUS IN
END PAGE ONE
PAGE TWO
ENGLAND, ALTERED AND RECHAMBERED IN THAT COUNTRY TO ACCOMMODATE THIRTY-EIGHT SPECIAL AMMUNITION. SUCH WEAPONS WERE SUBSEQUENTLY IMPORTED FOR SALE BY U.S. GUN DEALERS.
PHILADELPHIA CONTACT MISMA RECORDS CENTER, LETTERKENNY
URGENT 11-29-63 8-58 AM CST EEA TO DIRECTOR AND SAC, BOSTON
FROM SAC, DALLAS /89-43/ 1-P
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY, NOVEMBER TWENTYTWO, LAST, DALLAS, TEXAS FOR THE INFORMATION OF BOSTON OFFICE ON THE MORNING OF NOVEMBER TWENTYTHREE, LAST, A SNUB NOSE THIRTY EIGHT CALIBER SMITH AND WESSON, SERIAL NUMBER EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE, WITH THE WORD QUOTE ENGLAND UNQUOTE ON THE CYLINDER WAS FOUND AT APPROXIAMTELY SEVEN THIRTY AM., IN A BROWN PAPER SACK IN THE GENERAL AREA OF WHERE THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY TOOK PLACE.
BOSTON IS REQUESTED TO CONTACT SMITH AND WESSON AT SPRINGFIELD, MASS., AND TRACE OWNERSHIP OF THIS WEAPON.
END ACK IN ORD 10-02 AM OK FBI WA LA BS OK FBI BS 10-01 AM NCP TU CLEAR
FBI HQ 62-109060-485
___
ORDNANCE, IN EFFORT TO FURTHER TRACE WEAPON WHICH,
ACCORDING TO RETEL, WAS FOUND IN A PAPER BAG IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF ASSASSINATION AREA.
END AND ACK PLS
WA K"1"M 0 6-16 PMKOK FBI WA ELR
DL 5-17 PM OK FBI DL DRL
PH 6-17 PM OF FBI PH JTA
TU CLR
END ACK WA 11-28 PM OK FBI WA ELR DL 10-26 PM CST OK FBI DL VRG
SI 10-27 PM CST OK FBI SI WJA BS 10-28 PM OK FBI BS RCS
FBI HQ 62-109060-857
___
URGENT 11-29-63 11-21 PM EST JTA TO DIRECTOR AND SACS, DALLAS, SPRINGFIELD AND BOSTON FROM SAC, PHILADELPHIA /157-916/ 1 P
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY, ELEVEN TWENTYTWO SIXTYTHREE, DALLAS, TEXAS.
RE BOSTON TELETYPES INSTANT, TWELVE THIRTY-TWO PM AND SIX TEN PM AND PH TELETYPE TO BUREAU, DALLAS AND SPRINGFIELD INSTANT FIVE FORTYEIGHT PM.
BOSTON ADVISES RECORDS OF SMITH AND WESSON INC., SPRINGFIELD, MASS. SHOW THIRTY-EIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE WAS SHIPPED JANUARY THIRTEEN, NINETEEN FORTY-TWO TO US GOVERNMENT, HARTFORD ORDNANCE, HARTFORD, CONN. AND RECORDS WERE SHIPPED TO LETTERKENNY ORDNANCE, PHILADELPHIA, PA., IN NINETEEN FIFTY.
RE PH TELETYPE SHOWS THESE RECORDS SENT COMMANDING GENERAL, US ARMY WEAPONS COMMAND, ROCK ISLAND, ILL, FOR INFO SPRINGFIELD INSTANT WEAPON FOUND IN PAPER BAG IN IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF ASSASSINATION AREA.
SPRINGFIELD CONTACT ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL RE FURTHER TRACING OF WEAPON.
END ACK WA 11-28 PM OK FBI WA ELR DL 10-26 PM CST OK FBI DL VRG SI 10-27 PM CST OK FBI SI WJA BS 10-28 PM OK FBI BS RCS
FBI HQ 62-109060-638
___
URGENT 11-30-63 3-27 PM CST DM TO DIRECTOR, /62-109060/42-24016
AND SAC, DALLAS FROM SAC, SPRINGFIELD /89-23/
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY AFO. NSPI JACK L. RUBY, AKA., JACK RUBENSTEIN, JACK LEON RUBY. LEE HARVEY OSWALD DASH VICTEM, DECEASED. CR.
RE PHILADELPHIA TEL NOVEMBER TWENTYNINE LAST.
ON NOVEMBER 30 INSTANT, GEORGE L. MAYERNICK, DEPUTY SHERIFF, AMSWE DASH SMD DASH I, ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL, ROCK ISLAND, ILLINOIS, ADVISED SA ELYON H. DAVIS THERE IS NO RECORD IN THE FILES OF AMSWE DASH SMD DASH I OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN V FIVE ONE TWO ONE ZERO. MAYERNICK ALSO ADVISED THERE IS NO RECORD OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE IN FILES OFAMSWE DASH SMD DASH I.
NO FD THREE ZERO TWO BEING SUBMITTED, UAC. COPIES MAILED BOSTON AND PHILADELPHIA. P.
END AND ACK BOTH STS PLS WA 4-30 PM OK FBI WA RDR DL EAEP PM OK
FBI DL WD 3-30 P VVM CC-MR ROSEN
FBI HQ 62-109060-858
by Gil Jesus
At about 7 :30 am on November 23, 1963, a handgun was found near the curb at the corner of Ross and Lamar Streets. This gun was a Smith & Wesson .38 caliber revolver serial number 893265 with the word "England" stamped on the barrel, which was found in a brown paper bag with an apple and an orange. It was found by a man named Willie Flat, a white male, 9221 Metz Drive, employed at 4770 Memphis. It was turned over to Dallas Police officer J. Raz, who brought the bag and its contents into the Dallas Homicide and Robbery Division. (Memo to SAC from FBI Special Agent Richard E. Harrison dated 11/25/63--89-43-636.)
The FBI attempted to trace the owner of this weapon beginning with the manufacturer, Smith and Wesson in Springfield, Massachusetts. The SAC in Dallas sent a teletype the SAC in Boston requesting that they contact Smith and Wesson, advising that this weapon was found "in the general area of where assassination of President Kennedy took place". The FBI office in Boston found that this weapon was shipped on January 13, 1942, to the US Government, Hartford Ordinance, Hartford Connecticut. The Boston office explained that "shipments to Hartford Ordinance at that time were destined for England under the Lend-Lease agreement and stamping on cylinder is probably proof-mark of that government certifying its acceptance. Such weapons have been known to have been sold surplus in England, altered and rechambered to accommodate 38-special ammunition. Such weapons were subsequently imported for sale by US gun dealers." (FBI 62-109060-857)
The records were shipped to Letterkenny Ordinance in Philadelphia PA in 1950. The records were then transferred to the Commanding General, US Army Weapons Command, Rock Island, Illinois. The FBI teletype (62-109060-638) advises that the weapon was found in the "immediate vicinity" of the assassination area.
On November 30th, The FBI SAC in Springfield, Illinois sent a teletype to J. Edgar Hoover that there was "no record" at Rock Island of "Smith and Wesson 38 caliber revolver serial number 893265." (FBI 62-109060-858) Interestingly enough, the same teletype indicates that the FBI was checking the US Army Weapons Command for the records of Jack Ruby's .38 caliber handgun, serial number V51210 and found no record of that weapon either.
I suppose it should surprise no one (myself included) that the records the military is supposed to have of certain weapons either connected to, or possibly connected to, the assassination of the President of the United States have disappeared. If they had been legitimately sold to gun shop owners and gun dealers, there should have been a record of the transaction. The fact that there wasn't tells us that either Smith and Wesson keeps better record than the US military, or the military is hiding something here.
I can find no documentation or evidence that the FBI continued its search for the owner of this weapon. Could this have been the weapon of a conspirator (since it apparently had something in common with Ruby's weapon)? Why didn't the FBI pursue this lead until they either found a connection or reached a dead end? And what of the FBI's explanation that the weapon had been "rechambered" to accept .38 Special ammunition. Wasn't that what they said about the .38 they took from Oswald during his arrest? Could all of these weapons have been traced back to the military?
Here's the text of the documents relating to this found gun.
MEMORANDUM
TO SAC, DALLAS (89-43) DATE: 11/25/63
FROM SA RICHARD E. HARRISON
SUBJECT: ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY
On 11/23/63, Patrolman J. RAZ brought into the Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Dallas PD, a brown paper sack which contained a snub-nosed .38 caliber Smith & Wesson, SN 893265.
This gun had the word "England" on the cylinder and had been found at approximately 7:30 AM in a brown paper sack, together with an apple and an orange, near the curb at the corner of Ross and Lamar Streets and was turned in by one Willie Flat, white male, 9221 Metz Drive, employed at 4770 Memphis, to the Dallas PD.
2 - Dallas
REH:cah
(2) FBI DL 89-43-636
___
URGENT 11-29-63 6-10 PM RCS TO DIRECTOR AND SACS, DALLAS AND PHILADELPHIA
FROM SAC, BOSTON /89-43/ 2-P
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY, NOVEMBER
TWENTY-SECOND, SIXTYTHREE, DALLAS, TEXAS.
RE DALLAS TEL INSTANT DATE.
ON NOV. TWENTYNINE SIXTYTHREE FRED MILLER, SALESMANAGER OF SMITH AND WESSON INC., ADVISED SA THOMAS F. SULLIVAN THAT RECORDS SMITH AND WESSON, INC., SPRINGFIELD, MASS., DISCLOSE THIRTY-EIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE, WAS SHIPPED ON JANUARY THIRTEEN, FORTYTWO, TO U.S. GOVERNMENT, HARTFORD ORDNANCE, HARTFORD, CONN. HARTFORD ORDNANCE AT THAT TIME WAS DIVISION OF SPRINGFIELD ARMORY, SPRINGFIELD, MASS., AND ALL FIREARMS RECORDS AT THAT AGENCY WERE FORWARDED DURING NINETEEN FIFTY TO MISMS RECORDS CENTER, LETTERKENNY ORDNANCE, PHILADELPHIA, PA.
MILLER ADVISED HE BELIEVED SHIPMENTS TO HARTFORD ORDNANCE AT THAT TIME WERE DESTINED FOR ENGLAND UNDER LEND-LEASE AGREEMENT AND STAMPING ON CYLINDER IS PROBABLY A PROOF-MARK OF THAT GOVERNMENT CERTIFYING ITS ACCEPTANCE. SUCH WEAPONS ARE KNOWN TO HAVE BEEN SOLD SURPLUS IN
END PAGE ONE
PAGE TWO
ENGLAND, ALTERED AND RECHAMBERED IN THAT COUNTRY TO ACCOMMODATE THIRTY-EIGHT SPECIAL AMMUNITION. SUCH WEAPONS WERE SUBSEQUENTLY IMPORTED FOR SALE BY U.S. GUN DEALERS.
PHILADELPHIA CONTACT MISMA RECORDS CENTER, LETTERKENNY
URGENT 11-29-63 8-58 AM CST EEA TO DIRECTOR AND SAC, BOSTON
FROM SAC, DALLAS /89-43/ 1-P
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY, NOVEMBER TWENTYTWO, LAST, DALLAS, TEXAS FOR THE INFORMATION OF BOSTON OFFICE ON THE MORNING OF NOVEMBER TWENTYTHREE, LAST, A SNUB NOSE THIRTY EIGHT CALIBER SMITH AND WESSON, SERIAL NUMBER EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE, WITH THE WORD QUOTE ENGLAND UNQUOTE ON THE CYLINDER WAS FOUND AT APPROXIAMTELY SEVEN THIRTY AM., IN A BROWN PAPER SACK IN THE GENERAL AREA OF WHERE THE ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT KENNEDY TOOK PLACE.
BOSTON IS REQUESTED TO CONTACT SMITH AND WESSON AT SPRINGFIELD, MASS., AND TRACE OWNERSHIP OF THIS WEAPON.
END ACK IN ORD 10-02 AM OK FBI WA LA BS OK FBI BS 10-01 AM NCP TU CLEAR
FBI HQ 62-109060-485
___
ORDNANCE, IN EFFORT TO FURTHER TRACE WEAPON WHICH,
ACCORDING TO RETEL, WAS FOUND IN A PAPER BAG IN THE IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF ASSASSINATION AREA.
END AND ACK PLS
WA K"1"M 0 6-16 PMKOK FBI WA ELR
DL 5-17 PM OK FBI DL DRL
PH 6-17 PM OF FBI PH JTA
TU CLR
END ACK WA 11-28 PM OK FBI WA ELR DL 10-26 PM CST OK FBI DL VRG
SI 10-27 PM CST OK FBI SI WJA BS 10-28 PM OK FBI BS RCS
FBI HQ 62-109060-857
___
URGENT 11-29-63 11-21 PM EST JTA TO DIRECTOR AND SACS, DALLAS, SPRINGFIELD AND BOSTON FROM SAC, PHILADELPHIA /157-916/ 1 P
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY, ELEVEN TWENTYTWO SIXTYTHREE, DALLAS, TEXAS.
RE BOSTON TELETYPES INSTANT, TWELVE THIRTY-TWO PM AND SIX TEN PM AND PH TELETYPE TO BUREAU, DALLAS AND SPRINGFIELD INSTANT FIVE FORTYEIGHT PM.
BOSTON ADVISES RECORDS OF SMITH AND WESSON INC., SPRINGFIELD, MASS. SHOW THIRTY-EIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE WAS SHIPPED JANUARY THIRTEEN, NINETEEN FORTY-TWO TO US GOVERNMENT, HARTFORD ORDNANCE, HARTFORD, CONN. AND RECORDS WERE SHIPPED TO LETTERKENNY ORDNANCE, PHILADELPHIA, PA., IN NINETEEN FIFTY.
RE PH TELETYPE SHOWS THESE RECORDS SENT COMMANDING GENERAL, US ARMY WEAPONS COMMAND, ROCK ISLAND, ILL, FOR INFO SPRINGFIELD INSTANT WEAPON FOUND IN PAPER BAG IN IMMEDIATE VICINITY OF ASSASSINATION AREA.
SPRINGFIELD CONTACT ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL RE FURTHER TRACING OF WEAPON.
END ACK WA 11-28 PM OK FBI WA ELR DL 10-26 PM CST OK FBI DL VRG SI 10-27 PM CST OK FBI SI WJA BS 10-28 PM OK FBI BS RCS
FBI HQ 62-109060-638
___
URGENT 11-30-63 3-27 PM CST DM TO DIRECTOR, /62-109060/42-24016
AND SAC, DALLAS FROM SAC, SPRINGFIELD /89-23/
ASSASSINATION OF PRESIDENT JOHN F. KENNEDY AFO. NSPI JACK L. RUBY, AKA., JACK RUBENSTEIN, JACK LEON RUBY. LEE HARVEY OSWALD DASH VICTEM, DECEASED. CR.
RE PHILADELPHIA TEL NOVEMBER TWENTYNINE LAST.
ON NOVEMBER 30 INSTANT, GEORGE L. MAYERNICK, DEPUTY SHERIFF, AMSWE DASH SMD DASH I, ROCK ISLAND ARSENAL, ROCK ISLAND, ILLINOIS, ADVISED SA ELYON H. DAVIS THERE IS NO RECORD IN THE FILES OF AMSWE DASH SMD DASH I OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN V FIVE ONE TWO ONE ZERO. MAYERNICK ALSO ADVISED THERE IS NO RECORD OF SMITH AND WESSON THIRTYEIGHT CALIBER REVOLVER, SN EIGHT NINE THREE TWO SIX FIVE IN FILES OFAMSWE DASH SMD DASH I.
NO FD THREE ZERO TWO BEING SUBMITTED, UAC. COPIES MAILED BOSTON AND PHILADELPHIA. P.
END AND ACK BOTH STS PLS WA 4-30 PM OK FBI WA RDR DL EAEP PM OK
FBI DL WD 3-30 P VVM CC-MR ROSEN
FBI HQ 62-109060-858