Post by Rob Caprio on Aug 23, 2020 16:20:01 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
Notice To Lurkers:
Ben will deny these very obvious lies by claiming he has given evidence already (a favorite trick of the LNer clan) or that he has quoted me saying something, but do NOT fall for it. Demand him to provide this evidence to you. Demand that he provides my quote IN context as he has a habit of EDITING other peoples' words and ignoring clarifications even when they are made BEFORE he responded.
Ben will resort to insults and false accusations like all LNers do so take note of how often he does this.
*******************************************************************
Let's start to add in Ben's OWN notice as he does EXACTLY what he warns you folks LNers will do!
“Important Note for Lurkers - there are many trolls on this forum who's only purpose is to obstruct debate, deny the evidence, and attempt to change message threads from discussing the evidence, to personal insults and attacks.” (Ben Holmes’s Refrain on his “series” posts.)
******************************************************************
Episode #3 – Rifle Bill of Lading
Walt Cakebread Claim:
“Walt never proved his claim that the bill of lading proved a 40" Carcano was ordered by LHO.”
This is NOT proof of Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) ordering a 40" Carcano, no matter what Walt and Ben Holmes claim!
Walt would use this as "evidence" since he could produce NONE showing LHO ordered a 40" Carcano as he claimed! See, the Warren Commission (WC) put forth evidence that showed he would have ordered a 36" Carbine! So in an effort to save the WC he put out this lie!
Quote on
Rob .....Please try to be honest. There's no excuse for you believing that the shipment of rifles that Kleins received was anything other than the 7.5 pound, 40 inch long, model 91 /38 Mannlicher Carcano, Short Rifle. That is a fact that is right there on the bill of lading. The PROOF is the TARE weight of the shipment of 100 rifles.
That TARE weight is 750 pounds, so each rifle weighed 7.5 pounds...And ONLY the 40 inch long Model 91 /38 weight 7.5 pounds.
Please learn to work with the FACTS ....... Introducing, or perpetrating popular, lies into the case only serves to confuse the case and make it harder to get to the truth. (Walt -- 10/28/08)
Quote off
The problem for Walt is his claim that a 40" Carcano weighed 7.5 pounds! The ad the WC used, The November issue of "Field & Stream" listed the weight as 7.0 pounds! His whole math problem is out the window right there!
Furthermore, research has shown the first time the 40" model was mentioned in the "Field & Stream" magazine was SEPTEMBER 1963! The problem for the WC was twofold: 1) LHO did NOT even use this magazine in March when he was supposed to have ordered his rifle, and, 2) The order was in March, yet the first mention of the model he allegedly used on JFK was NOT mentioned or ready for ordering until September!
As for the actual magazine he was supposed to have used, "The American Rifleman", the first advertisement found to mention a 40" model for order was in April 1963! To obscure this fact WC shills like Walt lie and claim he ordered the illustrated one (he ordered from a picture!) in March! He expects us to believe this despite all the other evidence showing the 36" model was put on the order form (catalog number, dollar amount, etc...).
NO evidence put forth by the WC ever showed a 40" model being ordered by LHO, and as the research shows there is a good reason for this—NO 40" models were available UNTIL April 1963 at the earliest! YOU can't admit this FACT, and then claim he posed with it on 3/31/63, now can you?
All this is readily available for the honest researcher, but Ben decided to SIDE WITH Walt's lies, instead of the truth.
He would say things like this to me (and CJ too)!
Quote on
Absolutely, but I'm NOT the one lying, your WC shill pal is the one lying, and so are you as you support him. I offer you one more chance to produce one piece of real evidence that supports LHO ordering a 40" Carcano. (Robert)
You already did that for me. It's called the bill of lading.“ (Ben Holmes—10/27/08)
Quote off
First of all, the bill of lading does NOT mention the caliber of the rifles in the least! There is NO mention of size anywhere on that bill of lading so this is a lie by Ben right out of the gate. I had asked for him to produce something that showed LHO ordered a 40" Carcano and this does NOT do this.
He would keep insisting this bill of lading is evidence for LHO ordering a 40" Carcano too! (Even if it mentioned 40" models on it, and it doesn't, how does that show LHO ordered one?)
Quote on
It's one thing to believe that Walt is right, or to believe that Walt is wrong, as everyone can place lesser or greater emphasis on particular pieces of evidence... but when you simply lie and say the evidence doesn't exist... all you are is a liar. (Ben Holmes)
It doesn't, (Robert, EDITED by Ben)
Tell us about the non-existent bill of lading, Rob... (Ben Holmes—10/27/08)
Quote off
What about it Ben? How does it show or prove LHO ordered a 40" Carcano in March 1963 again?
He would keep claiming this bill of lading proved Walt's point and made me look like a fool EVEN THOUGH IT DIDN’T MENTION ANY MODEL TYPE, OR THAT LHO ORDERED ONE!
Quote on
All he can do is argue over a bill of lading,“ (Robert, EDITED by Ben)
So a "bill of lading" is not even a "single thing"? You're looking more and more the fool, Rob. (Ben Holmes—10/27/08)
Quote off
I asked him again how this bill of lading shows that LHO ordered a 40" Carcano, and he did what he always does when cornered, he played games!
The part he EDITED out:
Quote on
that (Bill of Lading) does not mention a 40" Carcano in the least. (Robert)
Doesn't mention U-238 either. In fact, a *dictionary* could be compiled of what it doesn't mention. (Ben Holmes—10/27/08)
Quote off
Since when were we discussing "atomic energy" again? We were discussing the 40" Carcano and since how the ONLY evidence he and Walt could cite did NOT support their claims, NOT these other issues!
So I hammered away at him!
Quote on
Tell us how that PROVES LHO ordered a 40" Carcano Ben. (Robert)
Tch tch... Rob... you claimed that there was "no evidence" for a 40" rifle being ordered... tell us about the bill of lading, Rob. Tell us about that first. (Ben Holmes—10/28/08)
Quote off
He continually used something that does NOT show what he and Walt claimed as evidence for their assertion. So when I pointed this out, he then used the tactic of me "not accepting" or "claiming there was no evidence" when there was. NO there is NOT, as the bill of lading does NOT show us 40" Carcanos were sent and it CERTAINLY DOES NOT SHOW US LHO ORDERED ONE!
Walt lied and Ben jived (as well as lied) to save him! ‘Tis that simple.
Quote on
Why did you lie and say that there was "NO" evidence for a 40" Carbine, Rob? You prove my point, Rob - why would *I* run from the evidence? It supports my positions perfectly. (Ben Holmes—10/28/08)
Quote off
First of all, it is a "short rifle", NOT a Carbine (40" model), and secondly, who beyond Walt and Ben said it was evidence for LHO ordering one? The evidence shows us what a liar these two guys are, it hardly supports their "positions perfectly!"
Notice To Lurkers:
Ben will deny these very obvious lies by claiming he has given evidence already (a favorite trick of the LNer clan) or that he has quoted me saying something, but do NOT fall for it. Demand him to provide this evidence to you. Demand that he provides my quote IN context as he has a habit of EDITING other peoples' words and ignoring clarifications even when they are made BEFORE he responded.
Ben will resort to insults and false accusations like all LNers do so take note of how often he does this.
*******************************************************************
Let's start to add in Ben's OWN notice as he does EXACTLY what he warns you folks LNers will do!
“Important Note for Lurkers - there are many trolls on this forum who's only purpose is to obstruct debate, deny the evidence, and attempt to change message threads from discussing the evidence, to personal insults and attacks.” (Ben Holmes’s Refrain on his “series” posts.)
******************************************************************
Episode #3 – Rifle Bill of Lading
Walt Cakebread Claim:
“Walt never proved his claim that the bill of lading proved a 40" Carcano was ordered by LHO.”
This is NOT proof of Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) ordering a 40" Carcano, no matter what Walt and Ben Holmes claim!
Walt would use this as "evidence" since he could produce NONE showing LHO ordered a 40" Carcano as he claimed! See, the Warren Commission (WC) put forth evidence that showed he would have ordered a 36" Carbine! So in an effort to save the WC he put out this lie!
Quote on
Rob .....Please try to be honest. There's no excuse for you believing that the shipment of rifles that Kleins received was anything other than the 7.5 pound, 40 inch long, model 91 /38 Mannlicher Carcano, Short Rifle. That is a fact that is right there on the bill of lading. The PROOF is the TARE weight of the shipment of 100 rifles.
That TARE weight is 750 pounds, so each rifle weighed 7.5 pounds...And ONLY the 40 inch long Model 91 /38 weight 7.5 pounds.
Please learn to work with the FACTS ....... Introducing, or perpetrating popular, lies into the case only serves to confuse the case and make it harder to get to the truth. (Walt -- 10/28/08)
Quote off
The problem for Walt is his claim that a 40" Carcano weighed 7.5 pounds! The ad the WC used, The November issue of "Field & Stream" listed the weight as 7.0 pounds! His whole math problem is out the window right there!
Furthermore, research has shown the first time the 40" model was mentioned in the "Field & Stream" magazine was SEPTEMBER 1963! The problem for the WC was twofold: 1) LHO did NOT even use this magazine in March when he was supposed to have ordered his rifle, and, 2) The order was in March, yet the first mention of the model he allegedly used on JFK was NOT mentioned or ready for ordering until September!
As for the actual magazine he was supposed to have used, "The American Rifleman", the first advertisement found to mention a 40" model for order was in April 1963! To obscure this fact WC shills like Walt lie and claim he ordered the illustrated one (he ordered from a picture!) in March! He expects us to believe this despite all the other evidence showing the 36" model was put on the order form (catalog number, dollar amount, etc...).
NO evidence put forth by the WC ever showed a 40" model being ordered by LHO, and as the research shows there is a good reason for this—NO 40" models were available UNTIL April 1963 at the earliest! YOU can't admit this FACT, and then claim he posed with it on 3/31/63, now can you?
All this is readily available for the honest researcher, but Ben decided to SIDE WITH Walt's lies, instead of the truth.
He would say things like this to me (and CJ too)!
Quote on
Absolutely, but I'm NOT the one lying, your WC shill pal is the one lying, and so are you as you support him. I offer you one more chance to produce one piece of real evidence that supports LHO ordering a 40" Carcano. (Robert)
You already did that for me. It's called the bill of lading.“ (Ben Holmes—10/27/08)
Quote off
First of all, the bill of lading does NOT mention the caliber of the rifles in the least! There is NO mention of size anywhere on that bill of lading so this is a lie by Ben right out of the gate. I had asked for him to produce something that showed LHO ordered a 40" Carcano and this does NOT do this.
He would keep insisting this bill of lading is evidence for LHO ordering a 40" Carcano too! (Even if it mentioned 40" models on it, and it doesn't, how does that show LHO ordered one?)
Quote on
It's one thing to believe that Walt is right, or to believe that Walt is wrong, as everyone can place lesser or greater emphasis on particular pieces of evidence... but when you simply lie and say the evidence doesn't exist... all you are is a liar. (Ben Holmes)
It doesn't, (Robert, EDITED by Ben)
Tell us about the non-existent bill of lading, Rob... (Ben Holmes—10/27/08)
Quote off
What about it Ben? How does it show or prove LHO ordered a 40" Carcano in March 1963 again?
He would keep claiming this bill of lading proved Walt's point and made me look like a fool EVEN THOUGH IT DIDN’T MENTION ANY MODEL TYPE, OR THAT LHO ORDERED ONE!
Quote on
All he can do is argue over a bill of lading,“ (Robert, EDITED by Ben)
So a "bill of lading" is not even a "single thing"? You're looking more and more the fool, Rob. (Ben Holmes—10/27/08)
Quote off
I asked him again how this bill of lading shows that LHO ordered a 40" Carcano, and he did what he always does when cornered, he played games!
The part he EDITED out:
Quote on
that (Bill of Lading) does not mention a 40" Carcano in the least. (Robert)
Doesn't mention U-238 either. In fact, a *dictionary* could be compiled of what it doesn't mention. (Ben Holmes—10/27/08)
Quote off
Since when were we discussing "atomic energy" again? We were discussing the 40" Carcano and since how the ONLY evidence he and Walt could cite did NOT support their claims, NOT these other issues!
So I hammered away at him!
Quote on
Tell us how that PROVES LHO ordered a 40" Carcano Ben. (Robert)
Tch tch... Rob... you claimed that there was "no evidence" for a 40" rifle being ordered... tell us about the bill of lading, Rob. Tell us about that first. (Ben Holmes—10/28/08)
Quote off
He continually used something that does NOT show what he and Walt claimed as evidence for their assertion. So when I pointed this out, he then used the tactic of me "not accepting" or "claiming there was no evidence" when there was. NO there is NOT, as the bill of lading does NOT show us 40" Carcanos were sent and it CERTAINLY DOES NOT SHOW US LHO ORDERED ONE!
Walt lied and Ben jived (as well as lied) to save him! ‘Tis that simple.
Quote on
Why did you lie and say that there was "NO" evidence for a 40" Carbine, Rob? You prove my point, Rob - why would *I* run from the evidence? It supports my positions perfectly. (Ben Holmes—10/28/08)
Quote off
First of all, it is a "short rifle", NOT a Carbine (40" model), and secondly, who beyond Walt and Ben said it was evidence for LHO ordering one? The evidence shows us what a liar these two guys are, it hardly supports their "positions perfectly!"