Post by Rob Caprio on Oct 21, 2023 19:47:18 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2025
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We will continue the story of Dial Ryder in this post. As was said in the previous post he had corroboration for his statement that a man came in “two to three weeks before the assassination” to have a “telescopic sight mounted on his rifle.”
The Warren Commission (WC) would have to IGNORE three corroborating witnesses, statements by his boss who had employed him for six years, his own testimony, Marina Oswald’s testimony and a piece of evidence (repair tag) to conclude there were grave doubts about this whole matter.
The WC did NOT want to consider this event because it led ONLY one way—to a conspiracy so they did what they did a lot of times, they wrote it off and pretty much buried it.
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The WC’s OWN words say the following:
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historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0170b.gif
Possible corroboration for Ryder’s story is provided by two women, Mrs. Edith Whitworth, who operates a the Furniture Mart, a furniture store located about 1 ½ blocks from the Irving Sports Shop, and Mrs. Gertrude Hunter, a friend of Mrs. Whitworth. They testified that in early November of 1963, a man who they later came to believe was Oswald drove up to the Furniture Mart in a two-tone blue and white 1957 Ford automobile, entered the store and asked about a part for a gun, presumably because of the sign that appeared in the building advertising a gunsmith shop that had formally occupied part of the premises. When he found that he could not obtain the part, the man allegedly returned to his car and then came back into the store with a woman and two young children to look at furniture, remaining in the store for about 30 to 40 minutes. (WCR, p. 316)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0170b.htm
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This account is very interesting for quite a few reasons. Firstly, the Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) we are told about CANNOT drive and does NOT own an automobile, so how is he driving a 1957 Ford to the store? Also, who does the automobile belong to? Secondly, notice the use of the word “allegedly” when the WC did NOT want to consider actions attributed to LHO when they knew they did NOT fit their preconceived conclusion! When they are accusing LHO of things they have NO supporting evidence or corroboration for they do NOT feel the need to use the word, but here in this small piece of the story they DON’T agree with they employ it. Finally, why would LHO, and presumably Marina, come back to the store and “look at furniture for 30 to 40 minutes” when he lived in a boarding house and she lived with Ruth Paine and there was NO change in the foreseeable future?
This story, as the WC calls it, brings in another angle that no one has really dwelled on in-depth over the years from what I have seen and read. All the focus is on what LHO was doing in the months and weeks leading up to the assassination, but NO one has bothered to see what Marina may have been doing. The LHO gunned down in the Dallas Police Department (DPD) basement on 11/24/63 was utilizing a number of rooming houses from what we are told, so that left Marina free from him to do anything she wanted. IF this man was NOT LHO, and the WC claimed it was not, then who was she travelling around with looking for gun parts and looking at furniture with? This is something to consider. IT would also suggest a bigger role for Marina in this saga, and based on the two women mentioned above it was Marina they saw with the man.
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Upon confronting Marina Oswald, both women identified her as the woman whom they had seen in the store on the occasion in question, although Mrs. Hunter could NOT identify a picture of Lee Harvey Oswald and Mrs. Whitworth identified some pictures of Oswald but NOT others. Mrs. Hunter purported to identify Marina Oswald by her eyes, and did not observe the fact that Marina Oswald had a front tooth missing at the time she supposedly saw her. After a thorough inspection of the Furniture Mart, Marina Oswald testified that she had never been on the premises before. (WCR, p. 317) (emphasis mine)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0171a.htm
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IF we look at Marina’s testimony though we see something different. The WC arranged for a “confrontation” and this is included in her WC testimony.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, Mrs. Hunter, as you sit here and you look at these children and you look at Marina, are you sure in your own mind that these were the people who were in the store that day?
Mrs. HUNTER. I have seen Marina several times before the baby came--several times. She said she saw me do you remember talking to a lady about getting help for you before your baby came?
Mrs. OSWALD. For housework?
Mrs. HUNTER. No; she was talking about the welfare of clothes for the baby before the baby came, but I don't know who she was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, wait just a minute, Mrs. Hunter, you say you talked to Marina about this?
Mrs. HUNTER. She was with another woman and this other woman didn't come around, and I couldn't understand too much of what she said, and she couldn't understand too much of what I said, and I says, "If you need help with this baby, we can get you help at Parkland Hospital." Do you remember that?
Mr. LIEBELER. Just a minute, would you describe the other woman?
Mrs. HUNTER. Now, the other woman don't mean a thing to me. All I know, she was with this other woman, but I live on Second Street and it was down below me, four or five different streets and this woman, I believe, was going to see someone about fixing a tire or changing a tire. Now, I couldn't tell you what the other woman had on because it was just curiosity to me why--that her couldn't speak like we could and was in this condition and I kept asking her where her husband was and I never did make her understand me and I finally asked her if they had separated [indicating hand signals]--and I did that way--with her, and she made me understand he was staying over in town, but then, I didn't know who she was or nothing about her.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where do you think this happened, Mrs. Hunter?
Mrs. HUNTER. It was on the corner of Sixth and Hastings Streets---I know where the station was--I couldn't even tell you the name of the station, because we were looking at a car there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, what were the circumstances under which you were in this station, Mrs. Hunter?
Mrs. HUNTER. Now, I have never been there but about twice, but at this particular time, last July until right after Christmas, we were looking just for a used pickup or a used car for my husband to haul his tools in. We have a used car at this time there was a car for sale there.
Mrs. OSWALD. After Christmas?
Mrs. HUNTER. What?
Mrs. OSWALD. After Christmas?
Mrs. HUNTER. No; I said we were looking for used cars, so that's bound to have been my purpose there because we do not trade with that man. Do you know a driveway and a filling station and a washateria on Sixth Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. No; I don't remember Irving.
Mrs. HUNTER. This was before I would say it was in September or October. It was before just a little while, I know, before your baby came, because I won't tell you the remark I made, but anyhow, I know it was pretty close-almost due time you could tell from the way you were carrying the baby, it was almost time for the baby.
Mrs. OSWALD. I can't remember her [indicating Mrs. Whitworth].
Mr. LIEBELER. Didn't you see this other woman at all, Mrs. Hunter?
Mrs. HUNTER. No; she got out and had her back to me and if I'm not badly mistaken the woman had on a dark dress, but what the woman looked like, it wasn't even dawning on me, because I wasn't even interested. The only thing I seen that she was very uncomfortable and what I thought she was saying was that she was going to have to have help when the baby comes.
We see clearly NOT only did Mrs. Hunter say she was Marina at the time in question, but that she saw Marina “several times before the baby came” and even recounted where and how one of these times were. Was the other woman Ruth Paine?
Mrs. Hunter would again say she Marina before the time in question at the Furniture Mart.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had seen Mrs. Oswald before; is that correct?
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes; but I didn't know who she was until now--I do now--I would know her eyes.
And:
Mr. LIEBELER. How is it you remember seeing Mrs. Oswald when you have no recollection of who she was with or anything like that?
Mrs. HUNTER. Well, her eyes--I would know her on the street by her eyes if I was to meet her.
Mrs. OSWALD. Everybody knows my eyes.
You will notice the use of words and clarifications you WON’T see when the WC is busy making LHO look GUILTY with NO supporting evidence or corroboration. Words like allegedly, purported and this:
Mr. McKENZIE. Of course, you have seen many pictures of her since then.
Mrs. HUNTER. No; I'll be honest with you, I have only seen her once on television and that was in Washington, and day before yesterday I wanted to be sure that .this woman had the long hair, and the way it looked there. Now, I'm honest with him about that. I didn't watch the run of it on television.
Where does the WC SAY THIS when they are trying to have witnesses ID LHO when they HAD SEEN PICTURES OF HIM ON television and in the newspaper? They don’t so don’t bother looking for it. Isn’t it funny how they have completely changed their approach in this part of the case?
How many cars did Marina have access to or could get rides in?
Mr. McKENZIE. Now, on this occasion when she was in the store with the two children and her husband, that Mrs. Whitworth has described, did you notice the automobile that they came in?
Mrs. HUNTER. I sure did.
Mr. McKENZIE. And was it in the same automobile you had seen her in before at the filling station?
Mrs. HUNTER. No.
Mrs. OSWALD. Not the same? Not the same?
Was this other car a Rambler? Who drove the car to the Furniture Mart?
Mr. McKENZIE. Was there anybody else in the automobile that drove up that they got out of?
Mrs. HUNTER. No; just her and him and the two children. Now, I wasn't up close to the car. I was standing in the door and the car was parked over here something like this, and somebody could have been down in the floorboard of the car--I wouldn't say they wasn't.
Mr. McKENZIE. Did you see who was driving the automobile?
Mrs. HUNTER. He got under the steering wheel.
Mrs. OSWALD. Lee?
Mr. LIEBELER. And you saw him drive the car?
Mrs. HUNTER. I seen him at the steering wheel, under the steering wheel, and if there was someone else, now, in there, you couldn't see them.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, in any event, Mr. Oswald got behind the steering wheel of the car and he drove the car out of the parking lot in front of the building somewhere; isn't that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. I have never seen Lee drive the car in my lifetime. Lee never drove a car with me or the children in it. The only time I saw him behind the wheel was when Ruth Paine taught him to drive the car, he was practicing parking the car when Ruth Paine was teaching him to drive.
Mr. LIEBELER. And that was all in front of Mr. Paine's house; wasn't it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I'm sure this lady is trying to tell the truth, but the only possible person who could have driven the car when we were in that store could have been Mrs. Ruth Paine. She knows all the stores where we went because we never went there without her.
Mrs. HUNTER. Well, you've got your privileges---you've got your privileges.
We see Mrs. Hunter saying LHO was driving and Marina saying no way as he could NOT drive, so how do we reconcile this? To me IF both are telling the truth, and we have to presume this until it is shown they are not, then the ONLY explanation is that it was NOT the LHO we know but rather a lookalike with Marina who could drive. Funny how the WC never explored this nor tried to figure this out as they just moved on without determining if LHO was driving or not.
What did Mrs. Hunter mean by "you've got your privileges” too? They will go back to her seeing Marina before and what she was wearing at the time.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you saw Mrs. Oswald, or who you think was Mrs. Oswald, in ,the Station there that day before you saw her in the Furniture Mart; is that right?
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, when you saw her in the Furniture Mart, did you recognize her?
Mrs. HUNTER. No; it didn't dawn on me I didn't think a thing in the world about it.
Mrs. OSWALD. Excuse me, do you remember how I was dressed and was I pregnant at that time?
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. And what did I have on?
Mrs. HUNTER. All I know is you had on a jacket.
Mrs. OSWALD. What color?
Mrs. HUNTER. It was pretty chilly--it was a rose or more of a--it wasn't red.
Mrs. OSWALD. Was it blue?
Mrs. HUNTER. It was more of a rose.
Mrs. OSWALD. I had a rose short one.
Here we see Marina CONFIRMING she owned what Mrs. Hunter saw her in! But wait, there’s more!
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you testified before you had seen Mrs. Oswald several times.
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes; but I didn't know who she was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us about the other times you saw her.
Mrs. HUNTER. I have seen her in Minyards Grocery Store.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is that?
Mr. McKENZIE. [Spelling] M-i-n-y-a-r-d-s.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where is that?
Mrs. HUNTER. On Irving Boulevard.
Mrs. OSWALD. Grocery store?
Mrs. HUNTER. And this drive-in grocery that I was talking about, if you remember there I think I had seen her there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, aside from the gas station and the furniture shop and the grocery store, did you ever see her any place else?
Mrs. HUNTER. Well, just them things, then at once it dawns on me about her, but she had ribbons in here hair.
Mrs. OSWALD. What did I have?
Mrs. HUNTER. She was wearing a pigtail or something--her hair was long, and I remember one side the string was hanging down longer and that was at the furniture store.
Notice how matter of factly Liebeler is about the FACT she had seen Marina TWO times before the Furniture Mart? In any court this would show us she would KNOW Marina when she saw her since she said she has seen her twice before. This is way more valid than the supposed ID of LHO made by Bledsoe.
Remember the comment about pigtails too as Mrs. Whitworth would say she was wearing this style at the Furniture Mart when she saw her.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. She may not remember it, but if I was to see her today and seeing her that day and I was to meet her on the street, it would be hard for me to identify her. You know, she still has the features, but her face was round and she had her hair pulled back [indicating].
Mr. GREGORY. You mean in a pony tail?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. In a pony tail.
Mrs. OSWALD. No; it wasn't that.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Well, there was something tied around it--you had something tied around it, I mean, slicked back from her face.
Mrs. OSWALD. I didn't wear this.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I called it a pony tail, but it was kind of pulled back to the back.
Mrs. OSWALD. I had two pigtails.
So we see this was a common hairstyle for Marina around that time. Also, Marina would confirm she was in a furniture store with LHO for about the same time Mrs. Whitworth said they were.
Mrs. OSWALD. In that store they were selling baby things and towels and I was looking for something for a child.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. No; I didn't sell anything like that--mine was all furniture.
Mrs. OSWALD. There was just one store like that.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. But we went to the extreme back of the store and, as well as I remember, I had a used reddish maple bookcase headboard bed, you know, I was showing you.
Mrs. OSWALD. I was never in any furniture store.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Well, she didn't act like she was, even that day, you know, she walked off.
Mrs. OSWALD. You know, not because I want to say you are wrong, but I can't remember I was in a furniture store, especially when I talked with somebody.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, Marina, you said you do remember one time that you were in a store with Mrs. Paine and with Lee and with the children. Do you remember how long you were in the store that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. About 30 minutes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And how long, Mrs. Whitworth, was she in the store this time that you are talking about?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I would say from 30 to 40 minutes.
Despite Marina Oswald saying she was not there for furniture everything matches. OF course the WC did not point out to her the reason they showed up was for a GUN PART and NOT furniture.
Let’s go back to the WC Report for more on what they said about all of this.
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The circumstances surrounding the testimony of these two women are helpful in evaluating the weight to be given to their testimony, and the extent to which they lend support to Ryder’s evidence. The women previously told newspaper reporters that the part for which the man was looking was a “plunger," which the Commission has been advised is a colloquial term used to describe a firing pin. This work was completely different from the work covered by Ryder’s repair tag, and the firing pin of the assassination [NOTE: NOTICE NO USE OF THE WORD ALLEGED HERE.] weapon does NOT appear to have been recently replaced. At the time of their depositions, neither woman was able to recall what type of work which the man wanted done. (WCR, p. 317)
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Isn’t if funny when they are accusing LHO of something the word “allegedly” is NOT used? Remember the term “plunger” as this is a term ONLY someone with an intricate knowledge of weapons would know about (even the WC needed help with it) and there is NO evidence showing LHO possessed this kind of knowledge.
Mrs. Whitworth was adamant about being sure it was Marina she saw with the man she thought was LHO.
Mr. LIEBELER. What about you, Mrs. Whitworth, do you recognize these people as the people that were in your store that day?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Well, like I say, she has changed, but I am definitely sure they were in there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, as you sit here and look at these children who have been here this morning with Mrs. Oswald, do you recognize them?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. They have grown, and according to their ages and all--they were there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any doubt about that?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I don't have a doubt in the world but that they were there. I believe it might have been, if she could remember, probably about her, of course, the first time after she had this new baby over here, her husband told me Lee Harvey Oswald told me that the baby was 2 weeks old and we discussed my grandchildren about the same age and they were boys. She probably didn't understand our discussion but we discussed these two children and my two grandchildren.
Marina claims she remembers that LHO spoke with a much younger woman so this can’t be right, but then agrees with what Mrs. Whitworth said by saying “that sounds just about like Lee.”!
Mrs. OSWALD. I remember Lee exchanging conversations with a woman, but she was a younger woman and they were talking about the baby.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. That was me, probably, but my hair might not be as gray as it is today and I probably have changed, too, but we discussed the babies and trading babies, you know, we was just joking, in fact, in fact I was, anyway, and he said he had hoped to have had a boy when he had the two girls, and we were hoping for a little granddaughter. We talked and she walked off. She never would--she never offered to show us the baby or anything and that's what impressed me more than anything else. Otherwise, I probably would have never paid any attention to them being in the store or anything else, but it was that special talking to him and I was to expedite just about like he was on television one time. It was cool that day and you had to have on--it was probably the 4th, 5th, or 6th of November.
Mrs. OSWALD. That sounds just about like Lee.
Mr. LIEBELER. And Marina made that answer when Mrs. Whitworth remarked that Lee said that he hoped to have a boy and, isn't that right, Marina?
Mrs. OSWALD. No; I don't hear this.
Mr. LIEBELER. Because he did want that?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mrs. Whitworth said something LHO WOULD HAVE said per Marina so what else is needed to show she had to see them that day (or a man she thought was LHO and who knew what the real LHO wanted)? There is NO other way for her to know this UNLESS she spoke with the man.
Remember the WC said that Marina had a tooth missing and this was NOT noticed by Mrs. Hunter who ID’d her? Well, Mrs. Whitworth explains why she did NOT observe this “fact.”
Mr. McKENZIE. Do you recall in talking to this lady if she had a tooth missing in front? One or two teeth missing?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I don't recall that--all I noticed--she didn't even utter a word--I didn't notice it.
Mr. McKENZIE. Mrs. Oswald has indicated to Mrs. Hunter that Mrs. Hunter had said she remembered talking to Marina.
Now, what about you, Mrs. Hunter; do you remember whether she had any teeth missing?
Mrs. HUNTER. Well, I don't remember anything about her teeth because she would have to almost move her lips, you know, if you didn't pay close attention, now, that was just a very few seconds with her at this station- very few. The only thing that I caught was right here [indicating].
Mr. McKENZIE. Now, don't you think you would notice it if somebody had a tooth out in front of their mouth?
Mrs. HUNTER. Not necessarily, because I don't pay no attention to nobody--only their eyes and their feet.
Mr. McKenzie was one of TWO lawyers Marina was entitled to have. How many lawyers did LHO have? NONE is the correct answer. Whether you agree with Mrs. Hunter’s explanation or not it is a valid reason for NOT noticing her front tooth missing. Of course Mrs. Whitworth’s is even better as IF someone does NOT talk it is impossible to notice this in a short amount of time.
It would appear the man who was supposed to be LHO had a package wrapped in brown paper too!
Mr. McKENZIE. I say, you had seen that and stated that he had such a package?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I saw him; yes.
Mr. McKENZIE. How was the package wrapped?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Loosely in brown paper and you know, it didn't have any strings on it, as far as I remember--it was loosely tied.
Mr. McKENZIE. Well, was it a package in a bag?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. No; he held it with one hand.
Mr. McKENZIE. He held it with one hand?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Yes.
Mr. McKENZIE. Did it look like a piece of pipe or did it look like a gun stock, or did it look like a piece of wood or what did it look like that was in the package?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I didn't see it.
Mr. McKENZIE. How big around was the package?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. It wasn't large I'd say it might have been this big [indicating].
Mr. McKENZIE. You are making a sign with your hands there, with both hands—
Mrs. WHITWORTH. What is that about 2 or 3 inches in diameter?
Mr. McKENZIE. All right.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. And then it was some 15 or 18 inches long.
Mr. McKENZIE. So, the package that he had was 2 or 3 inches in diameter and approximately 18 inches long; is that right?
Mr. LIEBELER. Fifteen to 18 inches long.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. That's right.
Mr. McKENZIE. What did he say to you when he came into the store?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. He asked me if I had this particular part, some particular part, but not knowing about guns, I didn't have it. I don't remember it, you know, what he asked for.
This is important because as we saw earlier the WC claimed in its Report that the man inquired about a “plunger”, i.e. firing pin, but the size of this package makes that an IMPOSSIBILITY. What firing pin fits into a package 15 to 18” long and about 2 to 3” in diameter? Was he looking for a firing pin for a artillery HOWITZER?
This is key to.
Mr. McKENZIE. To the best of your recollection, if you will, state for the purpose of the record here exactly what he said to you?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Well, he asked me if I had this part, whatever it was, pertaining to a gun.
Mr. McKENZIE. And what part was it?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I don't know--because I don't know anything about guns.
Mr. McKENZIE. Can you state it in his words?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I cannot.
Mr. McKENZIE. You cannot tell us exactly what he said, but this is just what your recollection is of what he said?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. That's right.
Mr. McKENZIE. And what did he say to you then--give us your best recollection.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let me ask a question, if I may. Mrs. Whitworth, isn't it a fact that you told a newspaper reporter that came by your store shortly after this happened what that part was that he was looking for; a Miss Campbell or Mrs. Campbell?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. No; I didn't. Mrs. Hunter and I discussed it afterwards, and I think that she might know more about guns and she said it was a plunger, but I'm not sure I might have told them that I thought it was a plunger, but I don't remember.
Mr. McKENZIE. And you did not tell the reporter what you thought 'it was; is that right?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. No; I didn't--I don't believe I ever made the statement that I knew exactly what it was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, you told the reporter that you thought it was a plunger; isn't that a fact?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I believe Mrs. Hunter said that. She talked to the same reporter--I don't know what it was, because I don't remember.
They would try to get her to admit she called the part a “plunger” to the reporter, but she said that might have been Mrs. Hunter, but she wasn’t sure. Again, the real LHO had NO intimate knowledge of rifles and Mrs. Whitworth admitted she had NO idea about guns, so where did the term “plunger” come from? Why did Liebeler cut McKenzie’s question off? I wanted to hear what she thought the man said, but we NEVER got a chance to hear this because the WC lawyer butt in.
IF the man said it then it could NOT have been LHO IMO, and we will see it could NOT have been LHO per the WC too!
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The two women claimed that Oswald was in the Furniture Mart on a weekday, and in the midafternoon. However, Oswald had reported to work at the Texas School Book Depository on the dates referred to by the women and there is NO evidence that he left his job during business hours. (WCR, p. 317) (emphasis mine)
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This shows it could NOT have been the LHO who was arrested and shot dead as he was accounted for at the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD), so who was it then? Who was driving around with Marina then on a weekday? Despite Ruth Paines’ claim of always going with Marina when she went out this is obviously NOT true since we have a sighting by two women to the contrary.
A few final thoughts here. Mariana testified initially to saying she was never on the premises of the Furniture Mart before, but later on she said this:
Mr. LIEBELER. You are now standing directly in front of the store at 149 East Irving Boulevard, aren't you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you are sure you have never been here before?
Mrs. OSWALD. No; I have never been here before.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have anything to add, Mr. McKenzie?
Mr. McKENZIE. No.
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know if I were inside this store, but I don't recall it now.
This totally CHANGES her statement as she says “she doesn’t recall it NOW”, but that leaves open the possibility she was there as Mrs. Whitmore and Hunter said.
Finally, we come to the term “plunger”. As I have said this was a term only those with extreme knowledge of weapons would use to describe the firing pin and as we know LHO nor Mrs. Whitworth possessed this type of knowledge. It makes one wonder why LHO, or the man who was claiming to be him, would walk in and use such a colloquial term anyway instead of just asking about a firing pin. The WC relied on two documents to determine LHO, or the man pretending to be him, used this term. The first was CE-2974 which was simply a memo from J. Edgar Hoover (JEH) to Norman Redlich of the WC saying the term plunger was a “colloquial term applied to the firing pin or a striker of a firearm.” This document is helpful in other ways as it tells us the state of the alleged assassination weapon at the time the FBI received it (illegally at first). It says:
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historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/pages/WH_Vol26_0246a.gif
In this connection it should be noted that the firing pin of this rifle has been used extensively as shown by the wear to the nose or striking portion of the firing pin and, further, the presence of rust on the firing pin and its spring may be an indication that the firing pin had not been recently changed prior to November 22, 1963. The rust would have been disturbed had the firing pin been changed subsequent to the formation of the rust. In this regard, the firing pin and the spring of this weapon are well oiled and the rust present necessarily must have formed prior to the oiling of these parts.
No oil has been applied to the weapon by the FBI; however, it is not known whether it was oiled by any other person having this rifle in his possession. It was noted during an examination of the firing pin that numerous shots have been fired with the weapon in its current well-oiled condition as shown by the presence of residues on the interior surfaces of the bolt and on the firing pin.
The Labortory has NO record of any outlet where spare parts, including firing pins, for rifles such as Commission Exhibit 139.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/html/WH_Vol26_0246a.htm
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We see so many good things in this memo. Firstly, who can read what the FBI said about the condition of the firing pin and then feel good about it working properly to shoot President John F. Kennedy (JFK) with? I sure can’t. It also said that the “rifle has been used extensively as shown by the wear of the firing pin”, but who used it extensively? Even if you say it was LHO’s, and there is NO evidence showing CE-139 was his rifle, how do you show he used it extensively? You can’t. Remember, the rifle in question was REFITTED by the Riva Workshop before it was sent to the US so why does CE-139 seem to be in such disrepair?
Secondly, who oiled the rifle? We can’t show it was LHO and the FBI said it was NOT them, so who was it? Also, why did NONE of this oil show up on the alleged paper bag he allegedly used to carry the rifle into the TSBD with? The memo says it was in a “well-oiled condition” too. Also, since the FBI had no outlets showing a firing pin could be purchased for CE-139, why did the man acting like LHO think he could purchase one? My guess is he was NOT looking for one, but rather he was leaving a trail to the real LHO if it was needed for later. And this time he even used Marina and the children as props.
The second source for the WC’s information came from CE-1337. In this document the WC relied on a photographer who had accompanied Ms. Jean Campbell (“London Evening Standard”) in her interview of Mrs. Whitworth. His name is Jerry Herald and he worked for “Paris Match” magazine. He of course claimed to have destroyed all his notes and tapes of interviews made of persons regarding LHO. Why would he do this? He wouldn’t of course as they could be extremely valuable it would seem, but that is what he told the FBI and what the WC told us.
We are supposed to believe that Ms. Campbell and Mr. Herald were “just driving down the road and noticed a sign that said “Gun Shop” and they decided to stop to see if anyone there knew LHO.” Please. Also keep in mind that CE-1337 is a memo done by a UNNAMED FBI agent. There is NO connection to anyone with this memo.
Despite him destroying all of his notes and tapes he magically recalled EIGHT MONTHS LATER to this UNKNOWN agent the following:
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historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0290a.gif
Mrs. Whitworth told them that Oswald asked her for a gun part, and Mrs. Whitworth specifically named this part, calling it a “plunger.”
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0290a.htm
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It is laughable that the WC would except this claim by Herald when Mrs. Whitworth TESTIFIED to them that she could NOT recall what he asked for. How many courts do you think would accept this claim by Herald given the circumstances in which it was given? Also, it was stated the man was carrying a 15-18” package (2-3” in diameter) with him and how in the world could that be carrying a worn-out firing pin?
As we have seen, the statement by Dial Ryder is NOT only viable, but very credible. The FACT IT IS CORROBORATED by two other women (and if you count Marina who did NOT squelch the idea, in fact, her testimony lent credence to it) is tangible proof it happened as he said. Why did the WC go out of their way to discredit it and the two women as well?
The ONLY answer is because they were setup to hide the truth, NOT find it.
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We will continue the story of Dial Ryder in this post. As was said in the previous post he had corroboration for his statement that a man came in “two to three weeks before the assassination” to have a “telescopic sight mounted on his rifle.”
The Warren Commission (WC) would have to IGNORE three corroborating witnesses, statements by his boss who had employed him for six years, his own testimony, Marina Oswald’s testimony and a piece of evidence (repair tag) to conclude there were grave doubts about this whole matter.
The WC did NOT want to consider this event because it led ONLY one way—to a conspiracy so they did what they did a lot of times, they wrote it off and pretty much buried it.
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The WC’s OWN words say the following:
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Possible corroboration for Ryder’s story is provided by two women, Mrs. Edith Whitworth, who operates a the Furniture Mart, a furniture store located about 1 ½ blocks from the Irving Sports Shop, and Mrs. Gertrude Hunter, a friend of Mrs. Whitworth. They testified that in early November of 1963, a man who they later came to believe was Oswald drove up to the Furniture Mart in a two-tone blue and white 1957 Ford automobile, entered the store and asked about a part for a gun, presumably because of the sign that appeared in the building advertising a gunsmith shop that had formally occupied part of the premises. When he found that he could not obtain the part, the man allegedly returned to his car and then came back into the store with a woman and two young children to look at furniture, remaining in the store for about 30 to 40 minutes. (WCR, p. 316)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0170b.htm
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This account is very interesting for quite a few reasons. Firstly, the Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) we are told about CANNOT drive and does NOT own an automobile, so how is he driving a 1957 Ford to the store? Also, who does the automobile belong to? Secondly, notice the use of the word “allegedly” when the WC did NOT want to consider actions attributed to LHO when they knew they did NOT fit their preconceived conclusion! When they are accusing LHO of things they have NO supporting evidence or corroboration for they do NOT feel the need to use the word, but here in this small piece of the story they DON’T agree with they employ it. Finally, why would LHO, and presumably Marina, come back to the store and “look at furniture for 30 to 40 minutes” when he lived in a boarding house and she lived with Ruth Paine and there was NO change in the foreseeable future?
This story, as the WC calls it, brings in another angle that no one has really dwelled on in-depth over the years from what I have seen and read. All the focus is on what LHO was doing in the months and weeks leading up to the assassination, but NO one has bothered to see what Marina may have been doing. The LHO gunned down in the Dallas Police Department (DPD) basement on 11/24/63 was utilizing a number of rooming houses from what we are told, so that left Marina free from him to do anything she wanted. IF this man was NOT LHO, and the WC claimed it was not, then who was she travelling around with looking for gun parts and looking at furniture with? This is something to consider. IT would also suggest a bigger role for Marina in this saga, and based on the two women mentioned above it was Marina they saw with the man.
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Upon confronting Marina Oswald, both women identified her as the woman whom they had seen in the store on the occasion in question, although Mrs. Hunter could NOT identify a picture of Lee Harvey Oswald and Mrs. Whitworth identified some pictures of Oswald but NOT others. Mrs. Hunter purported to identify Marina Oswald by her eyes, and did not observe the fact that Marina Oswald had a front tooth missing at the time she supposedly saw her. After a thorough inspection of the Furniture Mart, Marina Oswald testified that she had never been on the premises before. (WCR, p. 317) (emphasis mine)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0171a.htm
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IF we look at Marina’s testimony though we see something different. The WC arranged for a “confrontation” and this is included in her WC testimony.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, Mrs. Hunter, as you sit here and you look at these children and you look at Marina, are you sure in your own mind that these were the people who were in the store that day?
Mrs. HUNTER. I have seen Marina several times before the baby came--several times. She said she saw me do you remember talking to a lady about getting help for you before your baby came?
Mrs. OSWALD. For housework?
Mrs. HUNTER. No; she was talking about the welfare of clothes for the baby before the baby came, but I don't know who she was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, wait just a minute, Mrs. Hunter, you say you talked to Marina about this?
Mrs. HUNTER. She was with another woman and this other woman didn't come around, and I couldn't understand too much of what she said, and she couldn't understand too much of what I said, and I says, "If you need help with this baby, we can get you help at Parkland Hospital." Do you remember that?
Mr. LIEBELER. Just a minute, would you describe the other woman?
Mrs. HUNTER. Now, the other woman don't mean a thing to me. All I know, she was with this other woman, but I live on Second Street and it was down below me, four or five different streets and this woman, I believe, was going to see someone about fixing a tire or changing a tire. Now, I couldn't tell you what the other woman had on because it was just curiosity to me why--that her couldn't speak like we could and was in this condition and I kept asking her where her husband was and I never did make her understand me and I finally asked her if they had separated [indicating hand signals]--and I did that way--with her, and she made me understand he was staying over in town, but then, I didn't know who she was or nothing about her.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where do you think this happened, Mrs. Hunter?
Mrs. HUNTER. It was on the corner of Sixth and Hastings Streets---I know where the station was--I couldn't even tell you the name of the station, because we were looking at a car there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, what were the circumstances under which you were in this station, Mrs. Hunter?
Mrs. HUNTER. Now, I have never been there but about twice, but at this particular time, last July until right after Christmas, we were looking just for a used pickup or a used car for my husband to haul his tools in. We have a used car at this time there was a car for sale there.
Mrs. OSWALD. After Christmas?
Mrs. HUNTER. What?
Mrs. OSWALD. After Christmas?
Mrs. HUNTER. No; I said we were looking for used cars, so that's bound to have been my purpose there because we do not trade with that man. Do you know a driveway and a filling station and a washateria on Sixth Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. No; I don't remember Irving.
Mrs. HUNTER. This was before I would say it was in September or October. It was before just a little while, I know, before your baby came, because I won't tell you the remark I made, but anyhow, I know it was pretty close-almost due time you could tell from the way you were carrying the baby, it was almost time for the baby.
Mrs. OSWALD. I can't remember her [indicating Mrs. Whitworth].
Mr. LIEBELER. Didn't you see this other woman at all, Mrs. Hunter?
Mrs. HUNTER. No; she got out and had her back to me and if I'm not badly mistaken the woman had on a dark dress, but what the woman looked like, it wasn't even dawning on me, because I wasn't even interested. The only thing I seen that she was very uncomfortable and what I thought she was saying was that she was going to have to have help when the baby comes.
We see clearly NOT only did Mrs. Hunter say she was Marina at the time in question, but that she saw Marina “several times before the baby came” and even recounted where and how one of these times were. Was the other woman Ruth Paine?
Mrs. Hunter would again say she Marina before the time in question at the Furniture Mart.
Mr. LIEBELER. You had seen Mrs. Oswald before; is that correct?
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes; but I didn't know who she was until now--I do now--I would know her eyes.
And:
Mr. LIEBELER. How is it you remember seeing Mrs. Oswald when you have no recollection of who she was with or anything like that?
Mrs. HUNTER. Well, her eyes--I would know her on the street by her eyes if I was to meet her.
Mrs. OSWALD. Everybody knows my eyes.
You will notice the use of words and clarifications you WON’T see when the WC is busy making LHO look GUILTY with NO supporting evidence or corroboration. Words like allegedly, purported and this:
Mr. McKENZIE. Of course, you have seen many pictures of her since then.
Mrs. HUNTER. No; I'll be honest with you, I have only seen her once on television and that was in Washington, and day before yesterday I wanted to be sure that .this woman had the long hair, and the way it looked there. Now, I'm honest with him about that. I didn't watch the run of it on television.
Where does the WC SAY THIS when they are trying to have witnesses ID LHO when they HAD SEEN PICTURES OF HIM ON television and in the newspaper? They don’t so don’t bother looking for it. Isn’t it funny how they have completely changed their approach in this part of the case?
How many cars did Marina have access to or could get rides in?
Mr. McKENZIE. Now, on this occasion when she was in the store with the two children and her husband, that Mrs. Whitworth has described, did you notice the automobile that they came in?
Mrs. HUNTER. I sure did.
Mr. McKENZIE. And was it in the same automobile you had seen her in before at the filling station?
Mrs. HUNTER. No.
Mrs. OSWALD. Not the same? Not the same?
Was this other car a Rambler? Who drove the car to the Furniture Mart?
Mr. McKENZIE. Was there anybody else in the automobile that drove up that they got out of?
Mrs. HUNTER. No; just her and him and the two children. Now, I wasn't up close to the car. I was standing in the door and the car was parked over here something like this, and somebody could have been down in the floorboard of the car--I wouldn't say they wasn't.
Mr. McKENZIE. Did you see who was driving the automobile?
Mrs. HUNTER. He got under the steering wheel.
Mrs. OSWALD. Lee?
Mr. LIEBELER. And you saw him drive the car?
Mrs. HUNTER. I seen him at the steering wheel, under the steering wheel, and if there was someone else, now, in there, you couldn't see them.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, in any event, Mr. Oswald got behind the steering wheel of the car and he drove the car out of the parking lot in front of the building somewhere; isn't that right?
Mrs. OSWALD. I have never seen Lee drive the car in my lifetime. Lee never drove a car with me or the children in it. The only time I saw him behind the wheel was when Ruth Paine taught him to drive the car, he was practicing parking the car when Ruth Paine was teaching him to drive.
Mr. LIEBELER. And that was all in front of Mr. Paine's house; wasn't it?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I'm sure this lady is trying to tell the truth, but the only possible person who could have driven the car when we were in that store could have been Mrs. Ruth Paine. She knows all the stores where we went because we never went there without her.
Mrs. HUNTER. Well, you've got your privileges---you've got your privileges.
We see Mrs. Hunter saying LHO was driving and Marina saying no way as he could NOT drive, so how do we reconcile this? To me IF both are telling the truth, and we have to presume this until it is shown they are not, then the ONLY explanation is that it was NOT the LHO we know but rather a lookalike with Marina who could drive. Funny how the WC never explored this nor tried to figure this out as they just moved on without determining if LHO was driving or not.
What did Mrs. Hunter mean by "you've got your privileges” too? They will go back to her seeing Marina before and what she was wearing at the time.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you saw Mrs. Oswald, or who you think was Mrs. Oswald, in ,the Station there that day before you saw her in the Furniture Mart; is that right?
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, when you saw her in the Furniture Mart, did you recognize her?
Mrs. HUNTER. No; it didn't dawn on me I didn't think a thing in the world about it.
Mrs. OSWALD. Excuse me, do you remember how I was dressed and was I pregnant at that time?
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes.
Mrs. OSWALD. And what did I have on?
Mrs. HUNTER. All I know is you had on a jacket.
Mrs. OSWALD. What color?
Mrs. HUNTER. It was pretty chilly--it was a rose or more of a--it wasn't red.
Mrs. OSWALD. Was it blue?
Mrs. HUNTER. It was more of a rose.
Mrs. OSWALD. I had a rose short one.
Here we see Marina CONFIRMING she owned what Mrs. Hunter saw her in! But wait, there’s more!
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, you testified before you had seen Mrs. Oswald several times.
Mrs. HUNTER. Yes; but I didn't know who she was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Tell us about the other times you saw her.
Mrs. HUNTER. I have seen her in Minyards Grocery Store.
Mr. LIEBELER. What is that?
Mr. McKENZIE. [Spelling] M-i-n-y-a-r-d-s.
Mr. LIEBELER. Where is that?
Mrs. HUNTER. On Irving Boulevard.
Mrs. OSWALD. Grocery store?
Mrs. HUNTER. And this drive-in grocery that I was talking about, if you remember there I think I had seen her there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, aside from the gas station and the furniture shop and the grocery store, did you ever see her any place else?
Mrs. HUNTER. Well, just them things, then at once it dawns on me about her, but she had ribbons in here hair.
Mrs. OSWALD. What did I have?
Mrs. HUNTER. She was wearing a pigtail or something--her hair was long, and I remember one side the string was hanging down longer and that was at the furniture store.
Notice how matter of factly Liebeler is about the FACT she had seen Marina TWO times before the Furniture Mart? In any court this would show us she would KNOW Marina when she saw her since she said she has seen her twice before. This is way more valid than the supposed ID of LHO made by Bledsoe.
Remember the comment about pigtails too as Mrs. Whitworth would say she was wearing this style at the Furniture Mart when she saw her.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. She may not remember it, but if I was to see her today and seeing her that day and I was to meet her on the street, it would be hard for me to identify her. You know, she still has the features, but her face was round and she had her hair pulled back [indicating].
Mr. GREGORY. You mean in a pony tail?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. In a pony tail.
Mrs. OSWALD. No; it wasn't that.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Well, there was something tied around it--you had something tied around it, I mean, slicked back from her face.
Mrs. OSWALD. I didn't wear this.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I called it a pony tail, but it was kind of pulled back to the back.
Mrs. OSWALD. I had two pigtails.
So we see this was a common hairstyle for Marina around that time. Also, Marina would confirm she was in a furniture store with LHO for about the same time Mrs. Whitworth said they were.
Mrs. OSWALD. In that store they were selling baby things and towels and I was looking for something for a child.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. No; I didn't sell anything like that--mine was all furniture.
Mrs. OSWALD. There was just one store like that.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. But we went to the extreme back of the store and, as well as I remember, I had a used reddish maple bookcase headboard bed, you know, I was showing you.
Mrs. OSWALD. I was never in any furniture store.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Well, she didn't act like she was, even that day, you know, she walked off.
Mrs. OSWALD. You know, not because I want to say you are wrong, but I can't remember I was in a furniture store, especially when I talked with somebody.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, Marina, you said you do remember one time that you were in a store with Mrs. Paine and with Lee and with the children. Do you remember how long you were in the store that time?
Mrs. OSWALD. About 30 minutes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And how long, Mrs. Whitworth, was she in the store this time that you are talking about?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I would say from 30 to 40 minutes.
Despite Marina Oswald saying she was not there for furniture everything matches. OF course the WC did not point out to her the reason they showed up was for a GUN PART and NOT furniture.
Let’s go back to the WC Report for more on what they said about all of this.
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The circumstances surrounding the testimony of these two women are helpful in evaluating the weight to be given to their testimony, and the extent to which they lend support to Ryder’s evidence. The women previously told newspaper reporters that the part for which the man was looking was a “plunger," which the Commission has been advised is a colloquial term used to describe a firing pin. This work was completely different from the work covered by Ryder’s repair tag, and the firing pin of the assassination [NOTE: NOTICE NO USE OF THE WORD ALLEGED HERE.] weapon does NOT appear to have been recently replaced. At the time of their depositions, neither woman was able to recall what type of work which the man wanted done. (WCR, p. 317)
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Isn’t if funny when they are accusing LHO of something the word “allegedly” is NOT used? Remember the term “plunger” as this is a term ONLY someone with an intricate knowledge of weapons would know about (even the WC needed help with it) and there is NO evidence showing LHO possessed this kind of knowledge.
Mrs. Whitworth was adamant about being sure it was Marina she saw with the man she thought was LHO.
Mr. LIEBELER. What about you, Mrs. Whitworth, do you recognize these people as the people that were in your store that day?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Well, like I say, she has changed, but I am definitely sure they were in there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Now, as you sit here and look at these children who have been here this morning with Mrs. Oswald, do you recognize them?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. They have grown, and according to their ages and all--they were there.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have any doubt about that?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I don't have a doubt in the world but that they were there. I believe it might have been, if she could remember, probably about her, of course, the first time after she had this new baby over here, her husband told me Lee Harvey Oswald told me that the baby was 2 weeks old and we discussed my grandchildren about the same age and they were boys. She probably didn't understand our discussion but we discussed these two children and my two grandchildren.
Marina claims she remembers that LHO spoke with a much younger woman so this can’t be right, but then agrees with what Mrs. Whitworth said by saying “that sounds just about like Lee.”!
Mrs. OSWALD. I remember Lee exchanging conversations with a woman, but she was a younger woman and they were talking about the baby.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. That was me, probably, but my hair might not be as gray as it is today and I probably have changed, too, but we discussed the babies and trading babies, you know, we was just joking, in fact, in fact I was, anyway, and he said he had hoped to have had a boy when he had the two girls, and we were hoping for a little granddaughter. We talked and she walked off. She never would--she never offered to show us the baby or anything and that's what impressed me more than anything else. Otherwise, I probably would have never paid any attention to them being in the store or anything else, but it was that special talking to him and I was to expedite just about like he was on television one time. It was cool that day and you had to have on--it was probably the 4th, 5th, or 6th of November.
Mrs. OSWALD. That sounds just about like Lee.
Mr. LIEBELER. And Marina made that answer when Mrs. Whitworth remarked that Lee said that he hoped to have a boy and, isn't that right, Marina?
Mrs. OSWALD. No; I don't hear this.
Mr. LIEBELER. Because he did want that?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mrs. Whitworth said something LHO WOULD HAVE said per Marina so what else is needed to show she had to see them that day (or a man she thought was LHO and who knew what the real LHO wanted)? There is NO other way for her to know this UNLESS she spoke with the man.
Remember the WC said that Marina had a tooth missing and this was NOT noticed by Mrs. Hunter who ID’d her? Well, Mrs. Whitworth explains why she did NOT observe this “fact.”
Mr. McKENZIE. Do you recall in talking to this lady if she had a tooth missing in front? One or two teeth missing?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I don't recall that--all I noticed--she didn't even utter a word--I didn't notice it.
Mr. McKENZIE. Mrs. Oswald has indicated to Mrs. Hunter that Mrs. Hunter had said she remembered talking to Marina.
Now, what about you, Mrs. Hunter; do you remember whether she had any teeth missing?
Mrs. HUNTER. Well, I don't remember anything about her teeth because she would have to almost move her lips, you know, if you didn't pay close attention, now, that was just a very few seconds with her at this station- very few. The only thing that I caught was right here [indicating].
Mr. McKENZIE. Now, don't you think you would notice it if somebody had a tooth out in front of their mouth?
Mrs. HUNTER. Not necessarily, because I don't pay no attention to nobody--only their eyes and their feet.
Mr. McKenzie was one of TWO lawyers Marina was entitled to have. How many lawyers did LHO have? NONE is the correct answer. Whether you agree with Mrs. Hunter’s explanation or not it is a valid reason for NOT noticing her front tooth missing. Of course Mrs. Whitworth’s is even better as IF someone does NOT talk it is impossible to notice this in a short amount of time.
It would appear the man who was supposed to be LHO had a package wrapped in brown paper too!
Mr. McKENZIE. I say, you had seen that and stated that he had such a package?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I saw him; yes.
Mr. McKENZIE. How was the package wrapped?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Loosely in brown paper and you know, it didn't have any strings on it, as far as I remember--it was loosely tied.
Mr. McKENZIE. Well, was it a package in a bag?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. No; he held it with one hand.
Mr. McKENZIE. He held it with one hand?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Yes.
Mr. McKENZIE. Did it look like a piece of pipe or did it look like a gun stock, or did it look like a piece of wood or what did it look like that was in the package?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I didn't see it.
Mr. McKENZIE. How big around was the package?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. It wasn't large I'd say it might have been this big [indicating].
Mr. McKENZIE. You are making a sign with your hands there, with both hands—
Mrs. WHITWORTH. What is that about 2 or 3 inches in diameter?
Mr. McKENZIE. All right.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. And then it was some 15 or 18 inches long.
Mr. McKENZIE. So, the package that he had was 2 or 3 inches in diameter and approximately 18 inches long; is that right?
Mr. LIEBELER. Fifteen to 18 inches long.
Mrs. WHITWORTH. That's right.
Mr. McKENZIE. What did he say to you when he came into the store?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. He asked me if I had this particular part, some particular part, but not knowing about guns, I didn't have it. I don't remember it, you know, what he asked for.
This is important because as we saw earlier the WC claimed in its Report that the man inquired about a “plunger”, i.e. firing pin, but the size of this package makes that an IMPOSSIBILITY. What firing pin fits into a package 15 to 18” long and about 2 to 3” in diameter? Was he looking for a firing pin for a artillery HOWITZER?
This is key to.
Mr. McKENZIE. To the best of your recollection, if you will, state for the purpose of the record here exactly what he said to you?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. Well, he asked me if I had this part, whatever it was, pertaining to a gun.
Mr. McKENZIE. And what part was it?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I don't know--because I don't know anything about guns.
Mr. McKENZIE. Can you state it in his words?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I cannot.
Mr. McKENZIE. You cannot tell us exactly what he said, but this is just what your recollection is of what he said?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. That's right.
Mr. McKENZIE. And what did he say to you then--give us your best recollection.
Mr. LIEBELER. Let me ask a question, if I may. Mrs. Whitworth, isn't it a fact that you told a newspaper reporter that came by your store shortly after this happened what that part was that he was looking for; a Miss Campbell or Mrs. Campbell?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. No; I didn't. Mrs. Hunter and I discussed it afterwards, and I think that she might know more about guns and she said it was a plunger, but I'm not sure I might have told them that I thought it was a plunger, but I don't remember.
Mr. McKENZIE. And you did not tell the reporter what you thought 'it was; is that right?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. No; I didn't--I don't believe I ever made the statement that I knew exactly what it was.
Mr. LIEBELER. Well, you told the reporter that you thought it was a plunger; isn't that a fact?
Mrs. WHITWORTH. I believe Mrs. Hunter said that. She talked to the same reporter--I don't know what it was, because I don't remember.
They would try to get her to admit she called the part a “plunger” to the reporter, but she said that might have been Mrs. Hunter, but she wasn’t sure. Again, the real LHO had NO intimate knowledge of rifles and Mrs. Whitworth admitted she had NO idea about guns, so where did the term “plunger” come from? Why did Liebeler cut McKenzie’s question off? I wanted to hear what she thought the man said, but we NEVER got a chance to hear this because the WC lawyer butt in.
IF the man said it then it could NOT have been LHO IMO, and we will see it could NOT have been LHO per the WC too!
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The two women claimed that Oswald was in the Furniture Mart on a weekday, and in the midafternoon. However, Oswald had reported to work at the Texas School Book Depository on the dates referred to by the women and there is NO evidence that he left his job during business hours. (WCR, p. 317) (emphasis mine)
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This shows it could NOT have been the LHO who was arrested and shot dead as he was accounted for at the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD), so who was it then? Who was driving around with Marina then on a weekday? Despite Ruth Paines’ claim of always going with Marina when she went out this is obviously NOT true since we have a sighting by two women to the contrary.
A few final thoughts here. Mariana testified initially to saying she was never on the premises of the Furniture Mart before, but later on she said this:
Mr. LIEBELER. You are now standing directly in front of the store at 149 East Irving Boulevard, aren't you?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER. And you are sure you have never been here before?
Mrs. OSWALD. No; I have never been here before.
Mr. LIEBELER. Do you have anything to add, Mr. McKenzie?
Mr. McKENZIE. No.
Mrs. OSWALD. I don't know if I were inside this store, but I don't recall it now.
This totally CHANGES her statement as she says “she doesn’t recall it NOW”, but that leaves open the possibility she was there as Mrs. Whitmore and Hunter said.
Finally, we come to the term “plunger”. As I have said this was a term only those with extreme knowledge of weapons would use to describe the firing pin and as we know LHO nor Mrs. Whitworth possessed this type of knowledge. It makes one wonder why LHO, or the man who was claiming to be him, would walk in and use such a colloquial term anyway instead of just asking about a firing pin. The WC relied on two documents to determine LHO, or the man pretending to be him, used this term. The first was CE-2974 which was simply a memo from J. Edgar Hoover (JEH) to Norman Redlich of the WC saying the term plunger was a “colloquial term applied to the firing pin or a striker of a firearm.” This document is helpful in other ways as it tells us the state of the alleged assassination weapon at the time the FBI received it (illegally at first). It says:
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historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/pages/WH_Vol26_0246a.gif
In this connection it should be noted that the firing pin of this rifle has been used extensively as shown by the wear to the nose or striking portion of the firing pin and, further, the presence of rust on the firing pin and its spring may be an indication that the firing pin had not been recently changed prior to November 22, 1963. The rust would have been disturbed had the firing pin been changed subsequent to the formation of the rust. In this regard, the firing pin and the spring of this weapon are well oiled and the rust present necessarily must have formed prior to the oiling of these parts.
No oil has been applied to the weapon by the FBI; however, it is not known whether it was oiled by any other person having this rifle in his possession. It was noted during an examination of the firing pin that numerous shots have been fired with the weapon in its current well-oiled condition as shown by the presence of residues on the interior surfaces of the bolt and on the firing pin.
The Labortory has NO record of any outlet where spare parts, including firing pins, for rifles such as Commission Exhibit 139.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh26/html/WH_Vol26_0246a.htm
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We see so many good things in this memo. Firstly, who can read what the FBI said about the condition of the firing pin and then feel good about it working properly to shoot President John F. Kennedy (JFK) with? I sure can’t. It also said that the “rifle has been used extensively as shown by the wear of the firing pin”, but who used it extensively? Even if you say it was LHO’s, and there is NO evidence showing CE-139 was his rifle, how do you show he used it extensively? You can’t. Remember, the rifle in question was REFITTED by the Riva Workshop before it was sent to the US so why does CE-139 seem to be in such disrepair?
Secondly, who oiled the rifle? We can’t show it was LHO and the FBI said it was NOT them, so who was it? Also, why did NONE of this oil show up on the alleged paper bag he allegedly used to carry the rifle into the TSBD with? The memo says it was in a “well-oiled condition” too. Also, since the FBI had no outlets showing a firing pin could be purchased for CE-139, why did the man acting like LHO think he could purchase one? My guess is he was NOT looking for one, but rather he was leaving a trail to the real LHO if it was needed for later. And this time he even used Marina and the children as props.
The second source for the WC’s information came from CE-1337. In this document the WC relied on a photographer who had accompanied Ms. Jean Campbell (“London Evening Standard”) in her interview of Mrs. Whitworth. His name is Jerry Herald and he worked for “Paris Match” magazine. He of course claimed to have destroyed all his notes and tapes of interviews made of persons regarding LHO. Why would he do this? He wouldn’t of course as they could be extremely valuable it would seem, but that is what he told the FBI and what the WC told us.
We are supposed to believe that Ms. Campbell and Mr. Herald were “just driving down the road and noticed a sign that said “Gun Shop” and they decided to stop to see if anyone there knew LHO.” Please. Also keep in mind that CE-1337 is a memo done by a UNNAMED FBI agent. There is NO connection to anyone with this memo.
Despite him destroying all of his notes and tapes he magically recalled EIGHT MONTHS LATER to this UNKNOWN agent the following:
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Mrs. Whitworth told them that Oswald asked her for a gun part, and Mrs. Whitworth specifically named this part, calling it a “plunger.”
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0290a.htm
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It is laughable that the WC would except this claim by Herald when Mrs. Whitworth TESTIFIED to them that she could NOT recall what he asked for. How many courts do you think would accept this claim by Herald given the circumstances in which it was given? Also, it was stated the man was carrying a 15-18” package (2-3” in diameter) with him and how in the world could that be carrying a worn-out firing pin?
As we have seen, the statement by Dial Ryder is NOT only viable, but very credible. The FACT IT IS CORROBORATED by two other women (and if you count Marina who did NOT squelch the idea, in fact, her testimony lent credence to it) is tangible proof it happened as he said. Why did the WC go out of their way to discredit it and the two women as well?
The ONLY answer is because they were setup to hide the truth, NOT find it.