Post by Rob Caprio on Sept 2, 2024 20:07:40 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2025
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The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot and killed President John F. Kennedy (JFK) all by himself on November 22, 1963, from the southeastern window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) Building. This was called the “Sniper’s Nest” (SN) and the key to supporting this claim is to show LHO was actually on the sixth floor at the time the shots were fired at JFK.
The WC failed to do this in any way as the claims they made in an effort to do this have been shown to be false. This article will look at the issue of LHO being on the sixth floor at the time of the assassination.
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The claims linking LHO to the sixth floor at the time of the assassination via eyewitness testimony can be found on page 143 of the WC’s Report (WCR). It starts off with this comment.
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Additional testimony linking Oswald with the point from which the shots were fired was provided by the testimony of Charles Givens, who was the last known employee to see Oswald inside the building prior to the assassination. (WCR, p. 143)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
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So based on this Charles Givens was the last person to see LHO inside the building, but of course we know that is false as others saw him after this point in time which was around 11:45 a.m. Here is what Charles Givens testified to before the WC.
Mr. BELIN. When did you see Lee Harvey Oswald next?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, it was about a quarter till 12, we were on our way downstairs, and we passed him, and he was standing at the gate on the fifth floor.
I came downstairs, and I discovered I left my cigarettes in my jacket pocket upstairs, and I took the elevator back upstairs to get my jacket with my cigarettes in it. When I got back upstairs, he was on the sixth floor in that vicinity, coming from that way.
Mr. BELIN. At a spot which is about on the same line as what I call the south side of the east elevator, and about as far cast of the front part of that elevator as the distance from the front of the elevator to the back of the east elevator, is that about as far east of the front part of that elevator, is that about right?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You were standing at that point, and where did you see Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I was along here [indicating].
Mr. BELIN. That would be near the east wall of the building?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Was he between that stock and the window, or was he on the other side of the window?
Mr. GIVENS. He was between the stock and the window, coming towards the elevators.
Mr. BELIN. Coming towards the elevators?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see all of his body or not?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir; he had his clipboard in his hand.
In short, the WCR said he saw LHO walking from the southeastern corner of the floor to towards the elevator. They provided us with Commission Exhibit (CE) 2707 for guidance.
CE 2707: www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0083b.jpg
The WCR continues the story with these comments.
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Givens said to Oswald, "Boy, are you going downstairs? It's near lunch time." Oswald said, "No, sir. When you get downstairs, close the gate to the elevator." Oswald was referring to the west elevator which operates by pushbutton and only with the gate closed. Givens said, "Okay," and rode down in the east elevator. When he reached the first floor, the west elevator—the one with the gate—was not there. Givens thought this was about 11:55 a.m. None of the Depository employees is known to have seen Oswald again until after the shooting. (Ibid.)
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It should be noted that more testimony came from Bonnie Ray Williams (BRW) as he too saw LHO waiting for an elevator around 11:45 a.m., and here is his relevant testimony.
Mr. BALL. Who was driving the east side elevator?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I think that was Charles Givens.
Mr. BALL. Now, did something happen on the way down--did somebody yell out?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes; on the way down, I heard Oswald--and I am not sure whether he was on the fifth or the sixth floor. But on the way down Oswald hollered "Guys, how about an elevator?" I don't know whether those are his exact words. But he said something about the elevator. And Charles said, "Come on, boy," just like that. And he said, "Close the gate on the elevator and send the elevator back up." I don't know what happened after that.
This testimony is much clearer in showing LHO wanted an elevator and was NOT just putting on a show until Givens was gone from the sixth floor. Another employee riding the elevator with BRW was Billy Lovelady and here is testimony regarding this issue.
Mr. BALL - Did you come down the elevator?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you go down with?
Mr. LOVELADY - Let me see, I think it was Bonnie Ray Williams on the side I was; I believe so.
Mr. BALL - Did you see anything or hear anything of Oswald on the way down?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes; he was on the opposite side of the elevator I was on. I heard him holler to one of the boys to stop, he wanted the elevator. They said, "No; we're going down to lunch," and closed the gate I was on and come down and got ready to watch the President come by or got ready to go to lunch, and that's the last I heard of him.
Mr. BALL - You were on the west elevator?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Oswald was standing in front of the east elevator?
Mr. LOVELADY - East, on back, the elevator back.
Mr. BALL - Did you see him?
Mr. LOVELADY - No; I didn't; I just heard his voice because---where those slats are in back of the elevator.
His testimony also shows LHO hollered down for an elevator, so why did Givens’ testimony make it sound like he was just waiting at the gate of the elevator at 11:55 a.m. when he had asked for an elevator to be sent up at 11:45 a.m.? We are also to asked to believe that when Givens came back for his cigarettes and went back down at 11:55 a.m. he again refused to go down with Givens and instead again asked him to send up another elevator.
This makes no sense but does fit the WC’s version of events as they could make the reader think, “Yeah, he could have gone down at 11:55 a.m. with Givens, but said instead that he would wait for Givens to send up another elevator on the west side so he could stay on the sixth floor and shoot JFK.” Once again, what we see in the WCR is NOT based on the actual evidence.
Givens was a suspicious witness since he was the ONLY person in the TSBD to have an All-Points Bulletin (A.P.B.) put out for him following the assassination. None was ever issued for LHO, and one has to wonder why since the official story mentions an alleged “roll call” that noticed LHO was missing and sent the wheels in motion looking for him.
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9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) We have a man that we would like to have you pass this on to CID to see if we can pick this man up. CHARLES DOUGLAS GIVENS, G-I-V-E-N-S. He is a colored male, 37, 6’3”, 165 pounds, ID # Sheriff Department 37954. He is a porter that worked on this floor up here. He has a police record and he left.
(Disp. Hulse & McDaniel) 10-4. (CE 1974, pp. 83-84)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0453a.htm
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This shows the police were looking for Givens while no such call went out for LHO. Why not? Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer would add to this part with testimony that did NOT match either Givens’ account or Lt. Revill’s account of what happened.
Mr. BELIN. I then notice on this radio log---I don't see anything more under 9, at least until after the, well, it is down until we have gone as far as 1:30 p.m., I don't see anything else, do you, sir?
Mr. SAWYER. No. There is another broadcast in there somewhere, though. I put out another description on the colored boy that worked in that department.
Mr. BELIN. What do you mean the colored boy that worked in that depository?
Mr. SAWYER. He is one that had a previous record in the narcotics, and he was supposed to have been a witness to the man being on that floor. He was supposed to have been a witness to Oswald being there.
Mr. BELIN. Would Charles Givens have been that boy?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, I think that is the name, and I put out a description on him.
Mr. BELIN. How do you know he was supposed to be a witness on that?
Mr. SAWYER. Somebody told me that. Somebody came to me with the information. And again, that particular party, whoever it was, I don't know. I remember that a deputy sheriff came up to me who had been over taking these affidavits, that I sent them over there, and he came over from the sheriff's office with a picture and a description of this colored boy and he said that he was supposed to have worked at the Texas Book Depository, and he was the one employee who was missing, or he was missing from the building.
He wasn't accounted for, and that he was supposed to have some information about the man that did the shooting.
Mr. BELIN. I have a transcript of another one here, at least I did have.
Mr. SAWYER. I think we caught the man in the crowd later and sent him down. We sent him directly down to Captain Fritz's office.
We again see "someone" giving information to a law enforcement person that went unidentified. Who was this "somebody" that told Sawyer that Givens had seen LHO on the sixth floor of the TSBD near the time of the assassination?
What should we make of all of this? I personally think the whole Givens version of events is false and was used to put LHO on the sixth floor. Given his trouble with the police in the past it is not hard to think Givens was easy to get to comply. If the truth was being told we wouldn’t see so many variations in my opinion. Otherwise, why wouldn’t he have been detained immediately after he talked about the man named “Lee” on the sixth floor who did the shooting?
If we look at this photograph you can see the testimony Givens gave about seeing LHO is quite doubtful due to the pillars and high-stacked boxes.
CE 725: www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0266a.jpg
If we go to Lieutenant (Lt.) Jack Revill’s testimony we will notice this discussion regarding Charles Givens and what he said to Lt. Revill around 2:00 p.m.
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Mr. RANKIN. You knew about the someone by the name of Lee, didn’t you?
Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; Lee. And this was told to me by a colored employee of the School Book Depository. Myself and Lieutenant Frank Dyson took charge of the search of the building, and we must have had 75 or 80 men in the building assisting in this search. I talked to a Negro---
Mr. DULLES. Were you in charge of that?
Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I was in charge of that phase of the search. I talked to a Negro by the name of Givens, and we had handled this person in the past for marijuana violations and I recognized him and in talking to him I asked him if he had been on the sixth floor, and as well as I can recall, and Detective Brian was present at this same time he said, yes, that he had observed Mr. Lee, over by this window.
Well, I asked him who Mr. Lee was, and he said, “It’s a white boy.” He didn’t know his full name. So I turned this Givens individual over to one of our Negro detectives and told him to take him to Captain Fritz for interrogation, and while going to the city hall, or the police station I passed this detective and Givens, and they came into the homicide and robbery bureau shortly after Hosty and I did, so I am sure Captain Fritz did talk to Mr. Givens. (V, pp. 35-36)
Before Lt. Revill (May 13, 1964) gave this testimony that shows Charles Givens had prior trouble with the police for his use of marijuana, Givens (April 8, 1964) had testified to this before the WC.
Mr. GIVENS. …So I started over there to pick up my hat and coat, and Officer Dawson saw me and he called me and asked me was my name Charles Givens, and I said," yes." And he said, "We want you to go downtown and make a statement." And he puts me in the car and takes me down to the city hall and I made a statement to Will Fritz down there.
Givens’ version makes no mention of Lt. Revill and he not only got the name wrong of Lt. Dyson, but he made him an “officer” instead. If we go to Givens’ affidavit of November 22, 1963, we will see yet another version of events from him.
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…I worked up on the 6th floor today UNTIL about 11:30 am. Then I went downstairs and into the bathroom. At twelve o’clock I took my lunch period. I went to the parking lot at Record and Elm street. I have a friend who works at the parking lot. We walked up to Main and Record when the President passed by. We then walked back to the parking lot after the President had passed by. We had then just got back to the lot when we heard the shooting. I think I heard three shots. I did not see anyone in the building that was not supposed to be there this morning. (CE 2003, p. 27) (Emphasis mine)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0114b.htm
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Other than working on the sixth floor there is NOT one thing that matches his WC testimony of April 8, 1964. Why is that? He said he went downstairs at 11:30 a.m. and did NOT go back upstairs. So how did he see anything on the sixth floor as he claimed?
Furthermore, why would he have been let go IF he said he knew who did the shooting on the sixth floor as he claimed? Wouldn’t the police have detained him, thus, the whole A.P.B. would have been unnecessary? In my opinion this whole story is fabricated as it does NOT show up in his November 22, 1963, affidavit. It is clear based on the evidence that Givens never returned upstairs and never saw LHO at 11:55 a.m. as he claimed later on. It also clear that Lt. Revill and Inspector Sawyer gave questionable testimony in regard to this issue as well.
Further evidence that makes the claim of Givens (and the WC) look doubtful is the issue of no one seeing LHO after 11:55 a.m. LHO was seen at 12:00 p.m. by fellow worker Eddie Piper who testified to this in this WC testimony.
Mr. BALL. Was that the last time you saw him?
Mr. PIPER. Just at 12 o'clock.
Mr. BALL. Where were you at 12 o'clock?
Mr. PIPER. Down on the first floor.
Mr. BALL. What was he doing?
Mr. PIPER. Well, I said to him---"It's about lunch time. I believe I'll go have lunch." So, he says, "Yeah"---he mumbled something---I don't know whether he said he was going up or going out, so I got my sandwich off of the radiator and went on back to the first window of the first floor.
This shows he was seen after 11:55 a.m. and of course we know Mrs. Carolyn Arnold also saw him from 12:15 to 12:25 p.m. Another piece of testimony that shows LHO was down on the first floor is from William Shelley. Here is what he said before the WC.
Mr. BALL. Did you see him from time to time during that day?
Mr. SHELLEY. I am sure I did. I do remember seeing him when I came down to eat lunch about 10 to 12.
Mr. BALL. What time did you go down and eat lunch?
Mr. SHELLEY. It was around 10 'til.
Of course the WC made no issue of this, but if we believe the claim of Charles Givens (which the WC did), then we are to believe that LHO called for an elevator at 11:45 a.m. (per BRW and Billy Lovelady), was seen by William Shelley on the first floor at 11:50 a.m., then was back up on the sixth floor by 11:55 p.m. (to be seen by Givens), but back on the first floor to be seen by Eddie Piper (12:00 p.m.) and Carolyn Arnold at either 12:15 or 12:25 p.m. Does this make any sense to you? Was LHO a yo-yo or what?
This reminds me of the jacket, no jacket, jacket, no jacket, etc. stuff we see in other areas of the case.
The other odd thing is the man on the sixth floor past 11:55 that we know about for sure, BRW, NEVER saw LHO on the sixth floor past that time.
Mr. DULLES You ate your lunch on the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. And you were all alone?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
He would say with the boxes he could not really see the southeastern window, but surely if LHO was up there moving a bunch of boxes and reassembling his rifle BRW would have heard that. But he never mentioned hearing anyone else on the floor and he was just two or three sets of windows away from the alleged SN area.
Mr. BALL. Where did you eat your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I ate my lunch--I am not sure about this, but the third or the fourth set of WINDOWS, I believe.
Here is CE 483 which shows this in a diagram form: www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0114a.jpg
BRW never saw LHO, and he never saw Charles Givens when he went to the sixth floor to eat his lunch around noon. The evidence clearly shows that the story Givens invented later on is not true at all. LHO was down on a lower floor (probably first or outside) when the shots were fired and NOT on the sixth floor as claimed.
The other piece of evidence the WC claimed showed LHO was on the sixth floor was the clipboard that was found around December 2, 1963, by Frankie Kaiser. Of course, this proved nothing IF it was found the way they claimed since we know LHO worked in the TSBD and was on the sixth floor during the morning of November 22, 1963, as part of his order filling. I have covered this topic in a previous article in this series, so I won’t go over everything again, but Kaiser said the clipboard was found lying on the floor.
jfkconspiracyforum.freeforums.net/thread/831/clipboard-issue
Mr. BALL. How did you happen to find the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic edition--teacher's edition.
Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and I just noticed it laying over there.
Mr. BALL. Laying on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
Now, if it was on the floor in plain sight how was it missed by the DPD, Sheriff’s Office and the FBI for about 10 days? Also, why is the photograph in evidence NOT depicting it on the floor?
CE 506: www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0122b.jpg
Who picked it up and moved it into this position before the picture was taken? Clearly there are some serious questions pertaining to the clipboard and as I have said already this does NOT support the claim that LHO was shooting from the sixth floor since he was known to work on that floor and could have simply left it there to retrieve after he ate his lunch.
Once again, we see the evidence the WC gave us does NOT support the claim they made—that LHO was on the sixth floor at 12:30 p.m. shooting at JFK, thus, their conclusion is again sunk and thereby their whole case is sunk as well as null and void.
www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/lee-harvey-oswald-6.jpg
media.gettyimages.com/id/615318364/photo/a-shield-of-boxes-on-the-sixth-floor-of-the-texas-school-book-depository-in-dallas-texas.jpg
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0113a.jpg
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0121b.jpg
farm5.staticflickr.com/4844/39699356843_f99828cd0d.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot and killed President John F. Kennedy (JFK) all by himself on November 22, 1963, from the southeastern window on the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) Building. This was called the “Sniper’s Nest” (SN) and the key to supporting this claim is to show LHO was actually on the sixth floor at the time the shots were fired at JFK.
The WC failed to do this in any way as the claims they made in an effort to do this have been shown to be false. This article will look at the issue of LHO being on the sixth floor at the time of the assassination.
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The claims linking LHO to the sixth floor at the time of the assassination via eyewitness testimony can be found on page 143 of the WC’s Report (WCR). It starts off with this comment.
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Additional testimony linking Oswald with the point from which the shots were fired was provided by the testimony of Charles Givens, who was the last known employee to see Oswald inside the building prior to the assassination. (WCR, p. 143)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0084a.htm
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So based on this Charles Givens was the last person to see LHO inside the building, but of course we know that is false as others saw him after this point in time which was around 11:45 a.m. Here is what Charles Givens testified to before the WC.
Mr. BELIN. When did you see Lee Harvey Oswald next?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, it was about a quarter till 12, we were on our way downstairs, and we passed him, and he was standing at the gate on the fifth floor.
I came downstairs, and I discovered I left my cigarettes in my jacket pocket upstairs, and I took the elevator back upstairs to get my jacket with my cigarettes in it. When I got back upstairs, he was on the sixth floor in that vicinity, coming from that way.
Mr. BELIN. At a spot which is about on the same line as what I call the south side of the east elevator, and about as far cast of the front part of that elevator as the distance from the front of the elevator to the back of the east elevator, is that about as far east of the front part of that elevator, is that about right?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. You were standing at that point, and where did you see Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I was along here [indicating].
Mr. BELIN. That would be near the east wall of the building?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Was he between that stock and the window, or was he on the other side of the window?
Mr. GIVENS. He was between the stock and the window, coming towards the elevators.
Mr. BELIN. Coming towards the elevators?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see all of his body or not?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir; he had his clipboard in his hand.
In short, the WCR said he saw LHO walking from the southeastern corner of the floor to towards the elevator. They provided us with Commission Exhibit (CE) 2707 for guidance.
CE 2707: www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0083b.jpg
The WCR continues the story with these comments.
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Givens said to Oswald, "Boy, are you going downstairs? It's near lunch time." Oswald said, "No, sir. When you get downstairs, close the gate to the elevator." Oswald was referring to the west elevator which operates by pushbutton and only with the gate closed. Givens said, "Okay," and rode down in the east elevator. When he reached the first floor, the west elevator—the one with the gate—was not there. Givens thought this was about 11:55 a.m. None of the Depository employees is known to have seen Oswald again until after the shooting. (Ibid.)
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It should be noted that more testimony came from Bonnie Ray Williams (BRW) as he too saw LHO waiting for an elevator around 11:45 a.m., and here is his relevant testimony.
Mr. BALL. Who was driving the east side elevator?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I think that was Charles Givens.
Mr. BALL. Now, did something happen on the way down--did somebody yell out?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes; on the way down, I heard Oswald--and I am not sure whether he was on the fifth or the sixth floor. But on the way down Oswald hollered "Guys, how about an elevator?" I don't know whether those are his exact words. But he said something about the elevator. And Charles said, "Come on, boy," just like that. And he said, "Close the gate on the elevator and send the elevator back up." I don't know what happened after that.
This testimony is much clearer in showing LHO wanted an elevator and was NOT just putting on a show until Givens was gone from the sixth floor. Another employee riding the elevator with BRW was Billy Lovelady and here is testimony regarding this issue.
Mr. BALL - Did you come down the elevator?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Who did you go down with?
Mr. LOVELADY - Let me see, I think it was Bonnie Ray Williams on the side I was; I believe so.
Mr. BALL - Did you see anything or hear anything of Oswald on the way down?
Mr. LOVELADY - Yes; he was on the opposite side of the elevator I was on. I heard him holler to one of the boys to stop, he wanted the elevator. They said, "No; we're going down to lunch," and closed the gate I was on and come down and got ready to watch the President come by or got ready to go to lunch, and that's the last I heard of him.
Mr. BALL - You were on the west elevator?
Mr. LOVELADY - Right.
Mr. BALL - Oswald was standing in front of the east elevator?
Mr. LOVELADY - East, on back, the elevator back.
Mr. BALL - Did you see him?
Mr. LOVELADY - No; I didn't; I just heard his voice because---where those slats are in back of the elevator.
His testimony also shows LHO hollered down for an elevator, so why did Givens’ testimony make it sound like he was just waiting at the gate of the elevator at 11:55 a.m. when he had asked for an elevator to be sent up at 11:45 a.m.? We are also to asked to believe that when Givens came back for his cigarettes and went back down at 11:55 a.m. he again refused to go down with Givens and instead again asked him to send up another elevator.
This makes no sense but does fit the WC’s version of events as they could make the reader think, “Yeah, he could have gone down at 11:55 a.m. with Givens, but said instead that he would wait for Givens to send up another elevator on the west side so he could stay on the sixth floor and shoot JFK.” Once again, what we see in the WCR is NOT based on the actual evidence.
Givens was a suspicious witness since he was the ONLY person in the TSBD to have an All-Points Bulletin (A.P.B.) put out for him following the assassination. None was ever issued for LHO, and one has to wonder why since the official story mentions an alleged “roll call” that noticed LHO was missing and sent the wheels in motion looking for him.
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9 (Inspector J.H. Sawyer) We have a man that we would like to have you pass this on to CID to see if we can pick this man up. CHARLES DOUGLAS GIVENS, G-I-V-E-N-S. He is a colored male, 37, 6’3”, 165 pounds, ID # Sheriff Department 37954. He is a porter that worked on this floor up here. He has a police record and he left.
(Disp. Hulse & McDaniel) 10-4. (CE 1974, pp. 83-84)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0453a.htm
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This shows the police were looking for Givens while no such call went out for LHO. Why not? Inspector J. Herbert Sawyer would add to this part with testimony that did NOT match either Givens’ account or Lt. Revill’s account of what happened.
Mr. BELIN. I then notice on this radio log---I don't see anything more under 9, at least until after the, well, it is down until we have gone as far as 1:30 p.m., I don't see anything else, do you, sir?
Mr. SAWYER. No. There is another broadcast in there somewhere, though. I put out another description on the colored boy that worked in that department.
Mr. BELIN. What do you mean the colored boy that worked in that depository?
Mr. SAWYER. He is one that had a previous record in the narcotics, and he was supposed to have been a witness to the man being on that floor. He was supposed to have been a witness to Oswald being there.
Mr. BELIN. Would Charles Givens have been that boy?
Mr. SAWYER. Yes, I think that is the name, and I put out a description on him.
Mr. BELIN. How do you know he was supposed to be a witness on that?
Mr. SAWYER. Somebody told me that. Somebody came to me with the information. And again, that particular party, whoever it was, I don't know. I remember that a deputy sheriff came up to me who had been over taking these affidavits, that I sent them over there, and he came over from the sheriff's office with a picture and a description of this colored boy and he said that he was supposed to have worked at the Texas Book Depository, and he was the one employee who was missing, or he was missing from the building.
He wasn't accounted for, and that he was supposed to have some information about the man that did the shooting.
Mr. BELIN. I have a transcript of another one here, at least I did have.
Mr. SAWYER. I think we caught the man in the crowd later and sent him down. We sent him directly down to Captain Fritz's office.
We again see "someone" giving information to a law enforcement person that went unidentified. Who was this "somebody" that told Sawyer that Givens had seen LHO on the sixth floor of the TSBD near the time of the assassination?
What should we make of all of this? I personally think the whole Givens version of events is false and was used to put LHO on the sixth floor. Given his trouble with the police in the past it is not hard to think Givens was easy to get to comply. If the truth was being told we wouldn’t see so many variations in my opinion. Otherwise, why wouldn’t he have been detained immediately after he talked about the man named “Lee” on the sixth floor who did the shooting?
If we look at this photograph you can see the testimony Givens gave about seeing LHO is quite doubtful due to the pillars and high-stacked boxes.
CE 725: www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0266a.jpg
If we go to Lieutenant (Lt.) Jack Revill’s testimony we will notice this discussion regarding Charles Givens and what he said to Lt. Revill around 2:00 p.m.
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh5/pages/WC_Vol5_0023a.gif
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh5/pages/WC_Vol5_0023b.gif
Mr. RANKIN. You knew about the someone by the name of Lee, didn’t you?
Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; Lee. And this was told to me by a colored employee of the School Book Depository. Myself and Lieutenant Frank Dyson took charge of the search of the building, and we must have had 75 or 80 men in the building assisting in this search. I talked to a Negro---
Mr. DULLES. Were you in charge of that?
Mr. REVILL. Yes, sir; I was in charge of that phase of the search. I talked to a Negro by the name of Givens, and we had handled this person in the past for marijuana violations and I recognized him and in talking to him I asked him if he had been on the sixth floor, and as well as I can recall, and Detective Brian was present at this same time he said, yes, that he had observed Mr. Lee, over by this window.
Well, I asked him who Mr. Lee was, and he said, “It’s a white boy.” He didn’t know his full name. So I turned this Givens individual over to one of our Negro detectives and told him to take him to Captain Fritz for interrogation, and while going to the city hall, or the police station I passed this detective and Givens, and they came into the homicide and robbery bureau shortly after Hosty and I did, so I am sure Captain Fritz did talk to Mr. Givens. (V, pp. 35-36)
Before Lt. Revill (May 13, 1964) gave this testimony that shows Charles Givens had prior trouble with the police for his use of marijuana, Givens (April 8, 1964) had testified to this before the WC.
Mr. GIVENS. …So I started over there to pick up my hat and coat, and Officer Dawson saw me and he called me and asked me was my name Charles Givens, and I said," yes." And he said, "We want you to go downtown and make a statement." And he puts me in the car and takes me down to the city hall and I made a statement to Will Fritz down there.
Givens’ version makes no mention of Lt. Revill and he not only got the name wrong of Lt. Dyson, but he made him an “officer” instead. If we go to Givens’ affidavit of November 22, 1963, we will see yet another version of events from him.
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…I worked up on the 6th floor today UNTIL about 11:30 am. Then I went downstairs and into the bathroom. At twelve o’clock I took my lunch period. I went to the parking lot at Record and Elm street. I have a friend who works at the parking lot. We walked up to Main and Record when the President passed by. We then walked back to the parking lot after the President had passed by. We had then just got back to the lot when we heard the shooting. I think I heard three shots. I did not see anyone in the building that was not supposed to be there this morning. (CE 2003, p. 27) (Emphasis mine)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh24/html/WH_Vol24_0114b.htm
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Other than working on the sixth floor there is NOT one thing that matches his WC testimony of April 8, 1964. Why is that? He said he went downstairs at 11:30 a.m. and did NOT go back upstairs. So how did he see anything on the sixth floor as he claimed?
Furthermore, why would he have been let go IF he said he knew who did the shooting on the sixth floor as he claimed? Wouldn’t the police have detained him, thus, the whole A.P.B. would have been unnecessary? In my opinion this whole story is fabricated as it does NOT show up in his November 22, 1963, affidavit. It is clear based on the evidence that Givens never returned upstairs and never saw LHO at 11:55 a.m. as he claimed later on. It also clear that Lt. Revill and Inspector Sawyer gave questionable testimony in regard to this issue as well.
Further evidence that makes the claim of Givens (and the WC) look doubtful is the issue of no one seeing LHO after 11:55 a.m. LHO was seen at 12:00 p.m. by fellow worker Eddie Piper who testified to this in this WC testimony.
Mr. BALL. Was that the last time you saw him?
Mr. PIPER. Just at 12 o'clock.
Mr. BALL. Where were you at 12 o'clock?
Mr. PIPER. Down on the first floor.
Mr. BALL. What was he doing?
Mr. PIPER. Well, I said to him---"It's about lunch time. I believe I'll go have lunch." So, he says, "Yeah"---he mumbled something---I don't know whether he said he was going up or going out, so I got my sandwich off of the radiator and went on back to the first window of the first floor.
This shows he was seen after 11:55 a.m. and of course we know Mrs. Carolyn Arnold also saw him from 12:15 to 12:25 p.m. Another piece of testimony that shows LHO was down on the first floor is from William Shelley. Here is what he said before the WC.
Mr. BALL. Did you see him from time to time during that day?
Mr. SHELLEY. I am sure I did. I do remember seeing him when I came down to eat lunch about 10 to 12.
Mr. BALL. What time did you go down and eat lunch?
Mr. SHELLEY. It was around 10 'til.
Of course the WC made no issue of this, but if we believe the claim of Charles Givens (which the WC did), then we are to believe that LHO called for an elevator at 11:45 a.m. (per BRW and Billy Lovelady), was seen by William Shelley on the first floor at 11:50 a.m., then was back up on the sixth floor by 11:55 p.m. (to be seen by Givens), but back on the first floor to be seen by Eddie Piper (12:00 p.m.) and Carolyn Arnold at either 12:15 or 12:25 p.m. Does this make any sense to you? Was LHO a yo-yo or what?
This reminds me of the jacket, no jacket, jacket, no jacket, etc. stuff we see in other areas of the case.
The other odd thing is the man on the sixth floor past 11:55 that we know about for sure, BRW, NEVER saw LHO on the sixth floor past that time.
Mr. DULLES You ate your lunch on the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES. And you were all alone?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
He would say with the boxes he could not really see the southeastern window, but surely if LHO was up there moving a bunch of boxes and reassembling his rifle BRW would have heard that. But he never mentioned hearing anyone else on the floor and he was just two or three sets of windows away from the alleged SN area.
Mr. BALL. Where did you eat your lunch?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I ate my lunch--I am not sure about this, but the third or the fourth set of WINDOWS, I believe.
Here is CE 483 which shows this in a diagram form: www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0114a.jpg
BRW never saw LHO, and he never saw Charles Givens when he went to the sixth floor to eat his lunch around noon. The evidence clearly shows that the story Givens invented later on is not true at all. LHO was down on a lower floor (probably first or outside) when the shots were fired and NOT on the sixth floor as claimed.
The other piece of evidence the WC claimed showed LHO was on the sixth floor was the clipboard that was found around December 2, 1963, by Frankie Kaiser. Of course, this proved nothing IF it was found the way they claimed since we know LHO worked in the TSBD and was on the sixth floor during the morning of November 22, 1963, as part of his order filling. I have covered this topic in a previous article in this series, so I won’t go over everything again, but Kaiser said the clipboard was found lying on the floor.
jfkconspiracyforum.freeforums.net/thread/831/clipboard-issue
Mr. BALL. How did you happen to find the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. I was over there looking for the Catholic edition--teacher's edition.
Mr. BALL. Where did you see the clipboard?
Mr. KAISER. It was Just laying there in the plain open--and just the plain open boxes-you see, we've got a pretty good space back there and I just noticed it laying over there.
Mr. BALL. Laying on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. Yes, it was laying on the floor.
Mr. BALL. It was on the floor?
Mr. KAISER. It was on the floor.
Now, if it was on the floor in plain sight how was it missed by the DPD, Sheriff’s Office and the FBI for about 10 days? Also, why is the photograph in evidence NOT depicting it on the floor?
CE 506: www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0122b.jpg
Who picked it up and moved it into this position before the picture was taken? Clearly there are some serious questions pertaining to the clipboard and as I have said already this does NOT support the claim that LHO was shooting from the sixth floor since he was known to work on that floor and could have simply left it there to retrieve after he ate his lunch.
Once again, we see the evidence the WC gave us does NOT support the claim they made—that LHO was on the sixth floor at 12:30 p.m. shooting at JFK, thus, their conclusion is again sunk and thereby their whole case is sunk as well as null and void.