Post by Rob Caprio on Nov 11, 2018 22:24:44 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
nationalvanguard.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Oswald-Clenched-Fist.jpg
As we have seen in earlier posts in this series there is NO evidence showing us Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was a Communist as claimed by the Warren Commission (WC). This post will give further evidence from their own twenty-six volumes showing this to be true, so we have to wonder why the WC kept making claims their OWN evidence did NOT support.
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The WC said LHO was a vehement Communist while he was in the United States Marines Corps (USMC), but the odd thing is outside of Kerry Thornley NO one said this was true. Let’s begin with Nelson Delgado and see what he said about this issue in his WC testimony. Delgado is key because he shared a small two room area with LHO.
Mr. LIEBELER - What were these huts? Were they quonset huts?
Mr. DELGADO - Quonset huts, right.
Mr. LIEBELER - And they served as barracks, right?
Mr. DELGADO - Right.
Mr. LIEBELER - How many men----
Mr. DELGADO - Each Quonset hut was divided in half. Now, in each half lived six men, two to a room. They were divided into two rooms with a bathroom each side, each half of the Quonset hut. I was living in one room. Oswald in the other room… And we would meet during working hours and talk… He was for, not the Communist way of life…
He clearly states from their talks that LHO did NOT appear to be a Communist or a supporter of the “Communist way of life.” LHO began a relationship with the Cuban Consulate that seems odd too. Delgado mentions this in his WC testimony.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you connect this visit that Oswald had at that time with the Cuban Consulate?
Mr. DELGADO - Personally; I did; because I thought it funny for him to be receiving a caller at such a late date time. Also, up to this time he hardly ever received mail; in fact he very seldom received mail from home, because I made it a policy, I used to pick up the mail for our hut and distribute it to the guys in there, and very seldom did I see one for him. But every so often, after he started to get in contact with these Cuban people, he started getting little pamphlets and newspapers, and he always got a Russian paper, and I asked him if it was, you know, a Commie paper--they let you get away with this in the Marine Corps in a site like this--and he said, "No, it's not Communist; it's a White Russian. To me that was Greek, you know, White Russian, so I guess he is not a Communist; but he was steady getting that periodical. It was a newspaper.
Mr. LIEBELER - In the Russian language?
Mr. DELGADO - Right.
The term “White Russian” pertains to anti-Communists and this is the group LHO would fall into in the early part of 1963 when he met George de Mohrenschildt. He would be introduced to the “White Russian Community” of Dallas as well. Nowhere in Delgado’s testimony does he say LHO pronounced that he was a Communist or had leanings that way. There are many others too.
Daniel Powers gave a deposition to the WC and included in it were these comments.
Mr. JENNER. Did he ever express any sympathy toward the Communist Party?
Mr. POWERS. None that I recall.
Mr. JENNER. Toward Communist principles?
Mr. POWERS. None that I recall.
Mr. JENNER. Or Marxist doctrines?
Mr. POWERS. None that I recall; no, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Or did he ever discuss those subjects with you or in your presence?
Mr. POWERS. I'm not sure. He didn't discuss them to any great length or to any issues that I would recall.
Mr. JENNER. Nothing to excite you?
Mr. POWERS. Nothing that I would attach any political significance to.
We see NO leanings, mentions, or proclamations of being a Communist or supporter of that way of life here. Next up is LT. John Donovan.
Mr. ELY. Do you remember any specific international events or situations which he questioned officers about?
Mr. DONOVAN. No; not particularly. I know that Cuba interested him more than most other situations. He was fairly well informed about Mr. Batista. He referred to atrocities in general, not in particular. I think that we all know that there were injustices committed under the Batista administration. And he was against that. And he was against this sort of dictatorship.
But I never heard him in any way, shape or form confess that he was a Communist, or that he ever thought about being a Communist.
Again, we see that he did NOT give the impression of being a Communist to Lt. Donovan. Donald Peter Camarata was NOT called by the WC, but he did do an affidavit for the WC. On page 317 we find the following comment.
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I have no recollection of Oswald's studying or speaking either Spanish or German: of any remarks on his part concerning Communism, Russia, or Cuba: of his religious beliefs: of any abnormal attitude toward women on his part; or of his receiving any visitors.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/camarata.htm
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Another Marine who did NOT have the impression that LHO was a Communist. What he did say is he saw that LHO had written his name in Russian on one of his jackets and that he played Russian songs very loud. To me this was the beginning of his cover.
Next up is Peter Connor. Again, he was NOT called by the WC. He did an affidavit for us though and in it is this comment.
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I never heard Oswald make any anti-American or pro-Communist statements.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/connor.htm
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What is interesting too is that he mentions that LHO’s nickname was “Harv” and LHO hated that, meanwhile, Camarata said he was called “Oz” by his fellow Marines. How many nicknames did he have? It appears Delgado called him “Oz” too.
Mr. LIEBELER - Would you say that?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes; well, that's what I worked with him. I never called him Lee or Harvey or Oswald. It was always Oz.
Allen D. Graf would say the following in a WC affidavit.
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Oswald never gave to me any indication of favoring Communism or opposing capitalism.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/graf.htm
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Another Marine who said he did NOT see any Communist leanings has been discussed for years as the source of the “Hidell” alias—John Rene Heindel. In an affidavit for the WC he said the following.
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While in the Marine Corps, I was often referred to as "Hidell"--pronounced so as to rhyme with "Rydell" rather than "Fidel." This was a nickname and not merely an inadvertent mispronounciation. It is possible that Oswald might have heard me being called by this name; indeed he may himself have called me "Hidell." However, I have no specific recollection of his either using or hearing this name.
Although I generally regarded Oswald as an intelligent person, I did not observe him to be particularly interested in politics or international affairs.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/heindel.htm
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How could LHO hide his Communist leanings from ALL of these people IF he really had them? But wait, there are more! Mack Osborne would say this in his WC affidavit.
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I do not recall Oswald's studying either Spanish or German. I do not recall any remarks on his part concerning Communism, Russia, or Cuba. Because the fact that he was studying Russian, fellow Marines sometimes jokingly accused him of being a Russian spy. In my opinion he took such accusations in fun.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/osborne.htm
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Finally, we come to Richard Call. In Delgado’s testimony he said this about Richard Call.
Mr. LIEBELER - You mentioned this fellow by the name of Call.
Mr. DELGADO - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Richard Call?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was he in your quonset hut?
Mr. DELGADO - No; he was in our company. He was in a different quonset hut.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was he a friend of Oswald?
Mr. DELGADO - Semifriendly. I know personally that he used to call Oswald Oswaldovich or Comrade. We all called him Comrade, which is German for friend. We didn't put no communistic influence whatsoever. But then he made the statement saying, no, he never called Oswald "Comrade," or anything like that, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who said that?
Mr. DELGADO - Call.
Mr. LIEBELER - How do you know?
Mr. DELGADO - The FBI agent told me.
Mr. LIEBELER - The FBI agent told you that?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes.
We see the FBI told him Richard Call called LHO “Oswaldovich”, but why? Let’s look at Call’s affidavit.
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During this time, Oswald was studying Russian. For this reason many members of the unit kidded him about being a Russian spy; Oswald seemed to enjoy this sort of remark. At that time I had a phonograph record of Russian classical pieces entitled "Russian Fireworks." When I would play this record, Oswald would come over to me and say "You called?" I had a chess set which contained red and white chessmen; Oswald always chose the red chessmen, making some remark to the effect that he preferred the "Red Army." In connection with this general joking about Oswald's interest in Russian, he was nicknamed Oswaldskovich." However, I do not recall Oswald's making serious remarks with regard to the Soviet Union or Cuba.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/call.htm
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This was obviously done in jest and NOT a reaction to his rabid Communist leanings as the WC would tell us years later. The ONLY person who would say LHO mentioned or discussed Communism was Kerry Thornley, and of course, the WC gave him top billing for it despite him NOT being around LHO as long as many of the others and NOT living in the same area of the base as LHO. Here are his comments before the WC.
Mr. JENNER. Was it those mutual interests that brought about your acquaintance with him or some other fashion?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir; it was those interests. My first memory of him is that one afternoon he was sitting on a bucket out in front of a hut, an inverted bucket, with some other Marines. They were discussing religion. I entered the discussion. It was known already in the outfit that I was an atheist. Immediately somebody pointed out to me that Oswald was also an atheist.
Mr. JENNER. Did they point that out to you in his presence?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What reaction did he have to that?
Mr. THORNLEY. He said, "What do you think of communism?" and I said—
Mr. JENNER. He didn't say anything about having been pointed out as being an atheist?
Mr. THORNLEY. No; he wasn't offended at this at all. He was--it was done in a friendly manner, anyway, and he just said to me the first thing he said to me was with his little grin; he looked at me and he said, "What do you think of communism?" And I replied I didn't think too much of communism, in a favorable sense, and he said, "Well, I think the best religion is communism." And I got the impression at the time that he said this in order to shock. He was playing to the galleries, I felt.
Why would LHO just out of the blue ask him his opinion on Communism when he never asked any of the Marines listed above this question? We get more from Thornley that the WC just loved to hear.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have occasion in those additional half dozen instances of discussions with him, the viewpoint you have just expressed, that is, that his initial raising of the issue was more by way of provoking or shocking those about him rather than any utterances on his part of sincerity in a belief that communism was itself a religion?
Mr. THORNLEY. It became obvious to me after a while, in talking to him, that definitely he thought that communism was the best--that the Marxist morality was the most rational morality to follow that he knew of. And that communism was the best system in the world.
This part the WC could have done without!
Mr. THORNLEY. I still certainly wouldn't--wouldn't have predicted, for example, his defection to the Soviet Union, because once again he seemed idle in his admiration for communism. He didn't seem to be an activist.
They could have done without this too.
Mr. JENNER. Would you explain what you mean by idle in his admiration of the communistic system?
Mr. THORNLEY. Well, it seemed to be theoretical. It seemed strictly a dispassionate appraisal--I did know at the time that he was learning the Russian language. I knew he was subscribing to Pravda or a Russian newspaper of some kind from Moscow. All of this I took as a sign of his interest in the subject, and not as a sign of any active commitment to the Communist ends.
Of course this got them off base so they quickly recovered and got back on track in terms of LHO having a “definite interest” in Communism.
Mr. JENNER. You felt there was no devotion there. That it was somewhat of an intellectual interest, a curiosity. But I don't want to put words in your mouth, so tell me.
Mr. THORNLEY. I wouldn't put it quite that weakly. While I didn't feel there was any rabid devotion there, I wouldn't call it a complete idle curiosity either. I would call it a definite interest.
As before though, Thornley quickly says something that throws them off course again.
Mr. JENNER. A definite interest.
Mr. THORNLEY. But not a fanatical devotion.
I thought he was a “rabid” Communist according to the WC? What happened? Thornely then makes a comment that is simply NOT supported by the Marines quoted above.
Mr. JENNER. Well, you draw on your recollection as best you can and you just keep telling us now in your own words and I will try to not interrupt you too much.
Mr. THORNLEY. All right. One example was, that I remember--of course, it was well known in the outfit that, or popularly believed that Oswald had Communist sympathies—
Mr. JENNER. You didn't share that view?
Mr. THORNLEY. Not as much as some did, and while this was popularly believed, I mention this as kind of a framework for the significance of Oswald's comment: Master Sergeant Spar, our section chief, jumped up on the fender one day and said, "All right, everybody gather around," and Oswald said in a very thick Russian accent, "Ah ha, collective farm lecture," in a very delighted tone.
What does he mean “Not as much as some did” in believing LHO had Communist sympathies? Can any WC defender quote any Marine saying they thought this outside of Thornley? IF not, and I don’t think they can, what is he talking about? Why did the WC let this go unchallenged when they had evidence showing this was NOT true?
Thornley would contend they had involved discussions about his in his testimony, but can anyone show this really happened?
Mr. JENNER. Can you remember some discussions or incidents that explain that? Would he use objectivism?
Mr. THORNLEY. Well, I remember one in particular that always reminded me of his general outlook.
One day we got into an argument and I thought I was really going to pin him to the wall, I thought I was going to win this argument.
Mr. JENNER. On what subject?
Mr. THORNLEY. On Marxism. On the theory of history.
Mr. JENNER. Reconstruct the argument for me.
Mr. THORNLEY. Well, all right. Let me add this.
When I was in my freshman year in college, in my English class. I believe it was, perhaps it was a history class we had been required to read, it was a history workshop, we had been required to read the Communist manifesto which presents an outline of the theory of the Marx-Engels outlook on past and future history. The dialectical outlook. Oswald was also familiar with this outlook. As to what it constituted-we both agreed. Oswald had argued previously that communism was a rational approach to life, a scientific approach to life, Marxism.
Mr. JENNER. This was in argumentation with you?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Oh please. Why would LHO engage in long conversations with Thornley when he did NOT do this with Marines he served with for longer periods of time with? Delgado shared a hut with him for 11 months and did not describe conversations like this. I find his statements hard to believe. LHO was NOT a Communist and had NEVER been a member of the Communist party and even the State Department said this.
Once again, we see the claims of the WC are incorrect by their OWN evidence in the twenty-six volumes, thus, their conclusion is sunk again.
nationalvanguard.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Oswald-Clenched-Fist.jpg
As we have seen in earlier posts in this series there is NO evidence showing us Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was a Communist as claimed by the Warren Commission (WC). This post will give further evidence from their own twenty-six volumes showing this to be true, so we have to wonder why the WC kept making claims their OWN evidence did NOT support.
*****************************************
The WC said LHO was a vehement Communist while he was in the United States Marines Corps (USMC), but the odd thing is outside of Kerry Thornley NO one said this was true. Let’s begin with Nelson Delgado and see what he said about this issue in his WC testimony. Delgado is key because he shared a small two room area with LHO.
Mr. LIEBELER - What were these huts? Were they quonset huts?
Mr. DELGADO - Quonset huts, right.
Mr. LIEBELER - And they served as barracks, right?
Mr. DELGADO - Right.
Mr. LIEBELER - How many men----
Mr. DELGADO - Each Quonset hut was divided in half. Now, in each half lived six men, two to a room. They were divided into two rooms with a bathroom each side, each half of the Quonset hut. I was living in one room. Oswald in the other room… And we would meet during working hours and talk… He was for, not the Communist way of life…
He clearly states from their talks that LHO did NOT appear to be a Communist or a supporter of the “Communist way of life.” LHO began a relationship with the Cuban Consulate that seems odd too. Delgado mentions this in his WC testimony.
Mr. LIEBELER - Did you connect this visit that Oswald had at that time with the Cuban Consulate?
Mr. DELGADO - Personally; I did; because I thought it funny for him to be receiving a caller at such a late date time. Also, up to this time he hardly ever received mail; in fact he very seldom received mail from home, because I made it a policy, I used to pick up the mail for our hut and distribute it to the guys in there, and very seldom did I see one for him. But every so often, after he started to get in contact with these Cuban people, he started getting little pamphlets and newspapers, and he always got a Russian paper, and I asked him if it was, you know, a Commie paper--they let you get away with this in the Marine Corps in a site like this--and he said, "No, it's not Communist; it's a White Russian. To me that was Greek, you know, White Russian, so I guess he is not a Communist; but he was steady getting that periodical. It was a newspaper.
Mr. LIEBELER - In the Russian language?
Mr. DELGADO - Right.
The term “White Russian” pertains to anti-Communists and this is the group LHO would fall into in the early part of 1963 when he met George de Mohrenschildt. He would be introduced to the “White Russian Community” of Dallas as well. Nowhere in Delgado’s testimony does he say LHO pronounced that he was a Communist or had leanings that way. There are many others too.
Daniel Powers gave a deposition to the WC and included in it were these comments.
Mr. JENNER. Did he ever express any sympathy toward the Communist Party?
Mr. POWERS. None that I recall.
Mr. JENNER. Toward Communist principles?
Mr. POWERS. None that I recall.
Mr. JENNER. Or Marxist doctrines?
Mr. POWERS. None that I recall; no, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Or did he ever discuss those subjects with you or in your presence?
Mr. POWERS. I'm not sure. He didn't discuss them to any great length or to any issues that I would recall.
Mr. JENNER. Nothing to excite you?
Mr. POWERS. Nothing that I would attach any political significance to.
We see NO leanings, mentions, or proclamations of being a Communist or supporter of that way of life here. Next up is LT. John Donovan.
Mr. ELY. Do you remember any specific international events or situations which he questioned officers about?
Mr. DONOVAN. No; not particularly. I know that Cuba interested him more than most other situations. He was fairly well informed about Mr. Batista. He referred to atrocities in general, not in particular. I think that we all know that there were injustices committed under the Batista administration. And he was against that. And he was against this sort of dictatorship.
But I never heard him in any way, shape or form confess that he was a Communist, or that he ever thought about being a Communist.
Again, we see that he did NOT give the impression of being a Communist to Lt. Donovan. Donald Peter Camarata was NOT called by the WC, but he did do an affidavit for the WC. On page 317 we find the following comment.
Quote on
I have no recollection of Oswald's studying or speaking either Spanish or German: of any remarks on his part concerning Communism, Russia, or Cuba: of his religious beliefs: of any abnormal attitude toward women on his part; or of his receiving any visitors.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/camarata.htm
Quote off
Another Marine who did NOT have the impression that LHO was a Communist. What he did say is he saw that LHO had written his name in Russian on one of his jackets and that he played Russian songs very loud. To me this was the beginning of his cover.
Next up is Peter Connor. Again, he was NOT called by the WC. He did an affidavit for us though and in it is this comment.
Quote on
I never heard Oswald make any anti-American or pro-Communist statements.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/connor.htm
Quote off
What is interesting too is that he mentions that LHO’s nickname was “Harv” and LHO hated that, meanwhile, Camarata said he was called “Oz” by his fellow Marines. How many nicknames did he have? It appears Delgado called him “Oz” too.
Mr. LIEBELER - Would you say that?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes; well, that's what I worked with him. I never called him Lee or Harvey or Oswald. It was always Oz.
Allen D. Graf would say the following in a WC affidavit.
Quote on
Oswald never gave to me any indication of favoring Communism or opposing capitalism.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/graf.htm
Quote off
Another Marine who said he did NOT see any Communist leanings has been discussed for years as the source of the “Hidell” alias—John Rene Heindel. In an affidavit for the WC he said the following.
Quote on
While in the Marine Corps, I was often referred to as "Hidell"--pronounced so as to rhyme with "Rydell" rather than "Fidel." This was a nickname and not merely an inadvertent mispronounciation. It is possible that Oswald might have heard me being called by this name; indeed he may himself have called me "Hidell." However, I have no specific recollection of his either using or hearing this name.
Although I generally regarded Oswald as an intelligent person, I did not observe him to be particularly interested in politics or international affairs.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/heindel.htm
Quote off
How could LHO hide his Communist leanings from ALL of these people IF he really had them? But wait, there are more! Mack Osborne would say this in his WC affidavit.
Quote on
I do not recall Oswald's studying either Spanish or German. I do not recall any remarks on his part concerning Communism, Russia, or Cuba. Because the fact that he was studying Russian, fellow Marines sometimes jokingly accused him of being a Russian spy. In my opinion he took such accusations in fun.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/osborne.htm
Quote off
Finally, we come to Richard Call. In Delgado’s testimony he said this about Richard Call.
Mr. LIEBELER - You mentioned this fellow by the name of Call.
Mr. DELGADO - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Richard Call?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was he in your quonset hut?
Mr. DELGADO - No; he was in our company. He was in a different quonset hut.
Mr. LIEBELER - Was he a friend of Oswald?
Mr. DELGADO - Semifriendly. I know personally that he used to call Oswald Oswaldovich or Comrade. We all called him Comrade, which is German for friend. We didn't put no communistic influence whatsoever. But then he made the statement saying, no, he never called Oswald "Comrade," or anything like that, you know.
Mr. LIEBELER - Who said that?
Mr. DELGADO - Call.
Mr. LIEBELER - How do you know?
Mr. DELGADO - The FBI agent told me.
Mr. LIEBELER - The FBI agent told you that?
Mr. DELGADO - Yes.
We see the FBI told him Richard Call called LHO “Oswaldovich”, but why? Let’s look at Call’s affidavit.
Quote on
During this time, Oswald was studying Russian. For this reason many members of the unit kidded him about being a Russian spy; Oswald seemed to enjoy this sort of remark. At that time I had a phonograph record of Russian classical pieces entitled "Russian Fireworks." When I would play this record, Oswald would come over to me and say "You called?" I had a chess set which contained red and white chessmen; Oswald always chose the red chessmen, making some remark to the effect that he preferred the "Red Army." In connection with this general joking about Oswald's interest in Russian, he was nicknamed Oswaldskovich." However, I do not recall Oswald's making serious remarks with regard to the Soviet Union or Cuba.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/call.htm
Quote off
This was obviously done in jest and NOT a reaction to his rabid Communist leanings as the WC would tell us years later. The ONLY person who would say LHO mentioned or discussed Communism was Kerry Thornley, and of course, the WC gave him top billing for it despite him NOT being around LHO as long as many of the others and NOT living in the same area of the base as LHO. Here are his comments before the WC.
Mr. JENNER. Was it those mutual interests that brought about your acquaintance with him or some other fashion?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes, sir; it was those interests. My first memory of him is that one afternoon he was sitting on a bucket out in front of a hut, an inverted bucket, with some other Marines. They were discussing religion. I entered the discussion. It was known already in the outfit that I was an atheist. Immediately somebody pointed out to me that Oswald was also an atheist.
Mr. JENNER. Did they point that out to you in his presence?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. What reaction did he have to that?
Mr. THORNLEY. He said, "What do you think of communism?" and I said—
Mr. JENNER. He didn't say anything about having been pointed out as being an atheist?
Mr. THORNLEY. No; he wasn't offended at this at all. He was--it was done in a friendly manner, anyway, and he just said to me the first thing he said to me was with his little grin; he looked at me and he said, "What do you think of communism?" And I replied I didn't think too much of communism, in a favorable sense, and he said, "Well, I think the best religion is communism." And I got the impression at the time that he said this in order to shock. He was playing to the galleries, I felt.
Why would LHO just out of the blue ask him his opinion on Communism when he never asked any of the Marines listed above this question? We get more from Thornley that the WC just loved to hear.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have occasion in those additional half dozen instances of discussions with him, the viewpoint you have just expressed, that is, that his initial raising of the issue was more by way of provoking or shocking those about him rather than any utterances on his part of sincerity in a belief that communism was itself a religion?
Mr. THORNLEY. It became obvious to me after a while, in talking to him, that definitely he thought that communism was the best--that the Marxist morality was the most rational morality to follow that he knew of. And that communism was the best system in the world.
This part the WC could have done without!
Mr. THORNLEY. I still certainly wouldn't--wouldn't have predicted, for example, his defection to the Soviet Union, because once again he seemed idle in his admiration for communism. He didn't seem to be an activist.
They could have done without this too.
Mr. JENNER. Would you explain what you mean by idle in his admiration of the communistic system?
Mr. THORNLEY. Well, it seemed to be theoretical. It seemed strictly a dispassionate appraisal--I did know at the time that he was learning the Russian language. I knew he was subscribing to Pravda or a Russian newspaper of some kind from Moscow. All of this I took as a sign of his interest in the subject, and not as a sign of any active commitment to the Communist ends.
Of course this got them off base so they quickly recovered and got back on track in terms of LHO having a “definite interest” in Communism.
Mr. JENNER. You felt there was no devotion there. That it was somewhat of an intellectual interest, a curiosity. But I don't want to put words in your mouth, so tell me.
Mr. THORNLEY. I wouldn't put it quite that weakly. While I didn't feel there was any rabid devotion there, I wouldn't call it a complete idle curiosity either. I would call it a definite interest.
As before though, Thornley quickly says something that throws them off course again.
Mr. JENNER. A definite interest.
Mr. THORNLEY. But not a fanatical devotion.
I thought he was a “rabid” Communist according to the WC? What happened? Thornely then makes a comment that is simply NOT supported by the Marines quoted above.
Mr. JENNER. Well, you draw on your recollection as best you can and you just keep telling us now in your own words and I will try to not interrupt you too much.
Mr. THORNLEY. All right. One example was, that I remember--of course, it was well known in the outfit that, or popularly believed that Oswald had Communist sympathies—
Mr. JENNER. You didn't share that view?
Mr. THORNLEY. Not as much as some did, and while this was popularly believed, I mention this as kind of a framework for the significance of Oswald's comment: Master Sergeant Spar, our section chief, jumped up on the fender one day and said, "All right, everybody gather around," and Oswald said in a very thick Russian accent, "Ah ha, collective farm lecture," in a very delighted tone.
What does he mean “Not as much as some did” in believing LHO had Communist sympathies? Can any WC defender quote any Marine saying they thought this outside of Thornley? IF not, and I don’t think they can, what is he talking about? Why did the WC let this go unchallenged when they had evidence showing this was NOT true?
Thornley would contend they had involved discussions about his in his testimony, but can anyone show this really happened?
Mr. JENNER. Can you remember some discussions or incidents that explain that? Would he use objectivism?
Mr. THORNLEY. Well, I remember one in particular that always reminded me of his general outlook.
One day we got into an argument and I thought I was really going to pin him to the wall, I thought I was going to win this argument.
Mr. JENNER. On what subject?
Mr. THORNLEY. On Marxism. On the theory of history.
Mr. JENNER. Reconstruct the argument for me.
Mr. THORNLEY. Well, all right. Let me add this.
When I was in my freshman year in college, in my English class. I believe it was, perhaps it was a history class we had been required to read, it was a history workshop, we had been required to read the Communist manifesto which presents an outline of the theory of the Marx-Engels outlook on past and future history. The dialectical outlook. Oswald was also familiar with this outlook. As to what it constituted-we both agreed. Oswald had argued previously that communism was a rational approach to life, a scientific approach to life, Marxism.
Mr. JENNER. This was in argumentation with you?
Mr. THORNLEY. Yes.
Oh please. Why would LHO engage in long conversations with Thornley when he did NOT do this with Marines he served with for longer periods of time with? Delgado shared a hut with him for 11 months and did not describe conversations like this. I find his statements hard to believe. LHO was NOT a Communist and had NEVER been a member of the Communist party and even the State Department said this.
Once again, we see the claims of the WC are incorrect by their OWN evidence in the twenty-six volumes, thus, their conclusion is sunk again.