Post by Rob Caprio on Jul 1, 2024 20:06:58 GMT -5
All portions ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2025
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The House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) began looking into (I won't say investigating as outside of Mexico City and a few other areas they too were prevented from doing so) the assassination of President John F. Kennedy (JFK). Their inquiry would last from 1976 until 1979.
They looked at many areas that the Warren Commission (WC) had "investigated" during their tenure in 1964 as well as some new areas. This post will look at one of the new areas.
The HSCA Says...Accounts of Persons Fleeing from the TSBD.
*************************************************************
The reason the WC did NOT look into this topic was because they claimed that the ONLY person missing; and the only person who fled the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) Building after the assassination, was Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO). According to the WC, LHO was not present at some alleged roll call and he was the ONLY person who left the TSBD minutes after the assassination. I have shown in numerous posts in my "Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions" that NO roll call was ever held and that many other people had left the TSBD after the assassination.
The first person that the HSCA mentions in this issue is Richard Randolph Carr.
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historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol12/pages/HSCA_Vol12_0006b.gif
(34) Richard Randolph Carr stated to the FBI on January 4, 1964, that he saw a man looking out of a window on the top floor of the depository a few minutes before Carr heard shots. He described the man as white, wearing a hat, tan sportcoat [sic] and glasses. He said that at the time of the motorcade, he was standing on or about the sixth floor of the new courthouse which was under construction at Houston and Commerce Streets. Carr said that from that spot he could only see the top floor and roof of the depository. Carr said that after the shots he was going toward the direction of the triple underpass; when he got to the intersection of Houston and Commerce Streets, he saw a man whom he believed to be the same individual he had seen in the window of the depository.
(35) Carr was not called to testify before the Warren Commission. (HSCA XII, p. 8)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol12/html/HSCA_Vol12_0006b.htm
January 4, 1964, FBI Interview with Carr:
Item 03.pdf (hood.edu)
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The man Carr saw was on the top floor (seventh floor) of the TSBD shortly before the first sound of gunfire. What the HSCA failed to mention is that the FBI interviewed Carr again on February 4, 1964, to clarify information previously furnished by him. Several things will be noted in this statement that weren't in the first one.
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...I observed a man looking out of a window on the top floor of the Texas School Book Depository building (sic). This man, a heavy set individual, who was wearing a hat, a tan sport coat, horned rimmed glasses, was not in the end window next to Houston St. but was I believe in the second window over from Houston St.
...I heard a noise which I took to be the backfire of an automobile or a firecracker. There was a slight pause after the first report and then two reports in quick succession. ...I looked toward the triple underpass just west of Houston and Elm Sts. It seemed to me that the noises I had heard came from this direction. ...I do not recall that I looked toward the Texas School Book Depository building (sic) after hearing the three reports.
While I was on Houston St. near the Commerce St. intersection I saw a man whom I believe was identical with the man I had earlier seen looking out the window of the Texas School Book Depository building (sic). This man, walking very fast, proceeded on Houston St. south to Commerce St., then east on Commerce St. to Record St. which is one block from Houston St. This man got into a 1961 or 1962 Grey Rambler Station Wagon which was parked just north of Commerce on Record St. The station wagon, which had a Texas license was driven by a young negro man, drove off in a northerly direction. (Oswald 201 File, Vol. 25, p. 70; p. 2 in original)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=111185#relPageId=70
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This gives us much more detail than the brief overview that the HSCA provides us with. The man observed by Carr was heavy set and he wore horn rimmed glasses. This was not provided by the HSCA as it was not included in the January 4, 1964, interview. We also see that Carr said the man he saw was two windows over from Houston St. and this would exclude the alleged sniper's nest (SN) as that was supposedly setup at the end window.
A very important point glossed over by the FBI in their initial interview; and then subsequently by the HSCA, was his description of the shot sequence. Numerous witnesses stated that they heard a shot and then two shots in quick succession. This sequence excludes LHO from being the only shooter as the alleged murder weapon, a 40" Mannlicher-Carcano (M-C), could not fire faster than every 2.3 seconds and that is without acquiring the target and aiming. This one fact excludes LHO from being the sole assassin.
Carr then states that he looked towards the triple underpass area (grassy knoll -- GK) as that is where he thought the shots came from. He further stated that he never even looked at the TSBD as he did not consider that to be the source for the noise. You may be thinking -- but didn't he say he saw a man in the TSBD? He did, but he told the FBI that he never said that the man he saw fired a shot. (Ibid., p. 72; p. 4 in original) What drew Carr's attention to this man after seeing him was his desire to leave the TSBD so fast after the shots. Why was this man in such a hurry to leave the scene and why didn't the WC care about this?
The next big thing is the type of vehicle that Carr said he saw the man get into. It was a 1961 or 1962 Grey Nash Rambler Station Wagon and quite a few witnesses saw a Rambler that day. Some believed that LHO was one of the men that got into it. Was this a getaway vehicle?
Needless to say, we can now see why the WC never called Carr to testify as he simply saw and heard too many things that did NOT match the made up official narrative.
Fortunately for us, Carr was called to testify in the ONLY real investigation and trial into the JFK assassination -- the Clay Shaw trial. Let's begin with what the HSCA wrote about the testimony.
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(35) ...According to the transcript of his testimony, Carr stated that he saw the man in the fifth-floor window of the Texas School Book Depository. ...Carr also described the hat as worn by the man as felt and said his glasses were very heavy-rimmed with heavy earpieces. He had on a tie and a tan sportcoat (sic). As the man ran, he was continually looking over his shoulder as though he was being followed. (HSCA XII, pp.8-9)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol12/html/HSCA_Vol12_0007a.htm
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We see even more detail from the Clay Shaw trial as he said the man that he saw was at the FIFTH-FLOOR window of the TSBD and not the top floor as his two FBI interviews stated. This is supported by other evidence as the fifth floor is mentioned in several other things as being the source of the shots. Here is his Shaw trial testimony about the fifth floor.
Q: Do you recall seeing anything unusual happening?
A: Yes, I do.
Q: Would you tell us what happened.
A: At the time the parade came down towards -- going to the School Book Depository, Dealey Plaza would have been to my left where I was standing, and at the Fifth Floor of the School Book Depository I noticed a man at the third window, this man was dressed – he had on a light hat, and I saw this man later going down Houston Street, to the corner of Commerce, and then turned toward town on Commerce, and at that time before this happened I heard a single shot which sounded like a small arms, maybe a pistol, and I immediately, immediately there was a slight pause and immediately after that I heard three rifle shots in succession, they seemed to be fired from an automatic rifle and they came --
He told the jury that he thought the first shot was like a "small arms" sound (i.e., a pistol) and then after a slight pause he heard THREE MORE SHOTS in succession, and this made him think they were from an automatic rifle. This is way more detail than the FBI gave us. No wonder they didn't want this in their reports. It shows that if you believe LHO was the only shooter then he had to be using an automatic type of weapon to fire three shots that fast, or, it shows that there was more than one shooter. Neither of these options was good for the WC.
He also describes the glasses that the man he observed wearing in much greater detail.
Q: You can say what you said.
A: I thought he was a Secret Agent man or an FBI man.
Q: What did the man in the window look like?
A: He had on a hat, a felt hat, a light hat, he had on heavy-rimmed glasses, dark, the glasses were heavy-rimmed, and heavy ear pieces on his glasses.
Q: Go ahead.
A: He had on a tie, he had on a light shirt, a tan sport coat.
The type of glasses the man was wearing made Carr think that he was a Secret Service (SS) agent as they had heavy earpieces attached to them. Why would this man have earpieces attached to his eyeglasses? Was he a spotter for the assassination? Was he hard of hearing? If he was the latter then he should have been easy to locate as, how many TSBD employees would need hearing aids? If he was the former, how did he get into and out of the TSBD so easily?
The HSCA continues their overview of Carr's observations.
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(36) ...Carr then said that he saw a Rambler station wagon with a rack on top parked on the wrong side of the street, heading north and facing in the direction of the railroad tracks, next to the depository.
(37) Carr said that immediately after the shots he saw three men emerge from behind the depository and enter the station wagon. He gave a description of one of them: he was “real dark-complected" and appeared to be Spanish or Cuban; he drove the car away, going north on Houston Street.
(38) During the Shaw trial testimony, Carr said he had reported this information to law enforcement officers and that someone had told him not to repeat this information.
(39) Committee investigators did not locate Richard Carr to discuss this information with him. (Ibid., p. 9)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol12/html/HSCA_Vol12_0007a.htm
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Here is Carr's testimony at the Shaw trial regarding the Rambler station wagon.
Q: Would you tell us what you observed.
A: Should I point it out, sir?
Q: Yes.
A: At this point right here, at this School Book Depository there was a Rambler Station Wagon there with a rack on the back, built on the top of this.
Q: Which way was the station wagon facing?
A: It was parked on the wrong side of the street, next to the School Book Depository heading north.
Q: North being the top of the photomap, north is the top as you have indicated?
A: North is the top, and it was headed in this direction towards the railroad tracks, and immediately after the shooting there was three men that emerged from behind the School Book Depository, there was a Latin, I can't say whether he was Spanish, Cuban, but he was real dark-complected, stepped out and opened the door, there was two men entered that station wagon, and the Latin drove it north on Houston. The car was in motion before the rear door was closed, and this one man got in the front, and then he slid in from the -- from the driver's side over, and the Latin got back and they proceeded north and it was moving before the rear door was closed, and the other man that I described to you being in this window which would have been one, two, the third window over here came across the street, he came down, coming towards the construction site on Houston Street, to Commerce, in a very big hurry, he came to Commerce Street and he turned toward town on Commerce Street and every once in a while he would look over his shoulder as if he was being followed.
Carr would be corroborated by a good number of other witnesses about the Rambler sighting. It is odd that the vehicle was parked in the way it was -- facing against the traffic flow. Why did it do this as it would naturally draw attention to it since the road was one-way? My thought is that it made it easier to find for the people that would be looking for it to leave Dealey Plaza (DP) in. There is no doubt to me that this was a getaway car. The driver matched a man Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig had met earlier as well. Craig let him go because he claimed not to be able to speak English and so much was going on that Craig didn't have time to find an interpreter.
Here is Carr's testimony regarding law enforcement telling him to remain quiet about what he saw.
Q: Now, Mr. Carr, did you have occasion to give this information to any law enforcement agencies?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Did anyone tell you not to say anything about this?
A: Yes.
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: As the result of the conversations with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, what did you do?
A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
A: No, sir.
It is a disgrace that a witness that saw this many things was never called to testify by the WC. Then they expected us to believe that they conducted a thorough investigation into the events of that day. Sure. The only thing they did thoroughly was cover up what actually did happen on November 22, 1963.
The other person who saw someone flee the TSBD was James Worrell. Keep in mind, the WC defenders claim that LHO fled but NO ONE was ever found to see him leave the building or walk the seven blocks he would have had to in order to catch the bus the WC claimed he boarded. How could LHO leave by the front of the building and have no one see him? Or walk seven blocks in heavy congestion and not be seen? It is easy IF he never left by the front of the building or walked seven blocks to catch a bus.
Here is what the HSCA wrote about Worrell.
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historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol12/pages/HSCA_Vol12_0007a.gif
(40) James Worrell also reported to the FBI on November 23, 1963, that he saw a man leaving the TSBD and running from the area after the shots. Worrell told the FBI that he saw the man leave the depository building and run in the opposite direction; at the time. ...He described the man as white, 5 feet 8 inches to 5 feet 10 inches in height, with dark hair and wearing some type of jacket and dark clothing. According to the FBI report, when Worrell later saw Lee Harvey Oswald on television that night, Worrell believed Oswald was the person he had seen running from the depository. (Ibid.)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol12/html/HSCA_Vol12_0007a.htm
James Worrell's November 23, 1963, FBI Interview:
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=233680#relPageId=4
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This is different from Carr's observation as Worrell said the man he saw was LHO! The description sure matches him as does the clothing if LHO had on Commission Exhibit (CE) 150 or a jacket. Worrell was a high school student at the time of the assassination. I mentioned this because this means he was a minor and would be easy to pressure. Here is WC testimony about him thinking the man he saw being LHO.
Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Worrell, we have a report from the Federal Bureau of Investigation which contains a purported interview with you, designated as report of Robert P. Gemberling dated November 30, 1963, which has this statement:
"He" - referring to you - "Stated that last night when he saw photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald on television he felt this was the person he had seen running away from the building. He stated this person did not look back but he was certain this was a white person since he had a profile view."
My question, first of all, to you: Did you have a profile view of the man who ran away from the building that you described?
Mr. WORRELL - No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - The second question is, did you tell the FBI agent who interviewed you, that you felt that this person was Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. WORRELL - I don't know if I did or not.
It is easy to see he was affected by the pressure. If he wasn't, then his mother probably was. Here is FBI interview, again.
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=233680#relPageId=4
This report clearly states, "...he saw photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald on television, he felt this was the person he had seen running away from the building." Was the FBI known to add things to reports that were not said by the person they were interviewing? I doubt it, so this seems pretty firm to me. Why was Arlen Specter dealing with this anyway? He was used mostly for the medical area, but he was their top bully-boy as well. He would work over witness Jean Hill, too.
The reason Specter was brought in is because Worrell also said that he saw a rifle firing about "5 or 6 stories" over his head in his November 23, 1963, affidavit.
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=233680#relPageId=2
Anyone who said they saw a rifle, save for their star witness Howard Brennan of course, went under heavy scrutiny and firm questioning. This didn't help his case with the WC either.
Mr. SPECTER - How many shots did you hear?
Mr. WORRELL - Four.
Four shots was a no-no. See, the WC decided that ONLY three shots were fired. Anything else was "echoes." Sadly, Worrell would meet a tragic ending at a young age.
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(43) Richard Worrell died on November 5, 1966, in Dallas from severe head injuries sustained when his motorcycle went out of control. (Ibid.)
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Was this another coincidental death, or should it be added to the list? He was just 23 years old. Some researchers think that Worrell saw the same man that Carr did, but he didn't. His description is different, and he makes no mention of a hat or glasses. He is a witness for a man fleeing the TSBD and this man could have been LHO! This makes sense to me as he was never seen leaving the front of the TSBD by anyone.
A man came forward after Worrell's statement was made public who said that he was in the back of the TSBD, and he never saw anyone leave by the back of the building as Worrell had claimed. His name was James Romack and here is the pertinent portion of his claim from his 1964 FBI interview.
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Mr. Romack stated from the time he heard the shots he had looked toward the TSBD Building and had under his immediate observation the loading dock and the back door which are on an inset from what would be the northeast corner of the building. He stated he is positive that no one came out this door or out the loading dock doors which are immediately adjacent before the police ran along the side of the building, and he pointed out after the policeman went back to the front of the building he, ROMACK, kept the door and the dock under particular scrutiny since he realized from the actions of the policeman that someone might come out the back of the building. ...ROMACK stated that neither he nor RACKLEY saw anyone come out of the building. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 141, p. 51; p. 2 in original)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=58972#relPageId=5
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So we see Romack disputed the claim of Worrell, but there is a point of contention. Romack limited his comments to the back door and the loading dock doors, but Worrell stated that the man he saw came out the "back entrance" of the TSBD. (HSCA XII, p. 9) This could be construed as the loading dock area, but what if the TSBD had a side door located near the back of the building? There are tons of photographs of the TSBD, but I can't find any that show the sides of the building very well. In fact, the west side of the building was shielded by trees so you can't see what is there. Does Romack's statement neutralize Worrell's?
Why were the authorities so quick to take Romack's statement as fact while treating Worrell's as inaccurate? Romack offered nothing but his word, so he didn't have any advantage and he was not treated in the manner Worrell was. The answer is obvious as his statement helped the authorities with the official claim whereas Worrell's hindered it.
The WC left off another witness who may have seen the same man that Carr saw. Again, fortunately for us, New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison didn't. I covered this in my Garrison Chronicles series. Her name is Elizabeth Carolyn Walton. You can read about her story here.
jfkconspiracyforum.freeforums.net/thread/1305/garrison-chronicles-elizabeth-carolyn-walton
The final witness who saw some either flee the TSBD or right near it was Jean Hill. She told the FBI that he was a "white man wearing a brown raincoat and a hat" and she said he was running toward the GK area. After a brief look into this issue, it was said that there was no further information on who it could have been if he was actually there.
That is it for the people seen leaving the TSBD in a hurry on November 22, 1963. The key point is other than Worrell, no one said they saw LHO fleeing as the WC defenders claim to this day. True, Worrell did think he saw LHO, but he was leaving the TSBD by the rear entrance and not the front as the WC claimed. It seems that the WC is wrong again.
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www.jfk.org/wp-content/uploads/1996.014.0098cc.jpg
podcastjfk.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Richard-Randolph-Carr-Picture.jpg
The House Select Committee on Assassinations (HSCA) began looking into (I won't say investigating as outside of Mexico City and a few other areas they too were prevented from doing so) the assassination of President John F. Kennedy (JFK). Their inquiry would last from 1976 until 1979.
They looked at many areas that the Warren Commission (WC) had "investigated" during their tenure in 1964 as well as some new areas. This post will look at one of the new areas.
The HSCA Says...Accounts of Persons Fleeing from the TSBD.
*************************************************************
The reason the WC did NOT look into this topic was because they claimed that the ONLY person missing; and the only person who fled the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) Building after the assassination, was Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO). According to the WC, LHO was not present at some alleged roll call and he was the ONLY person who left the TSBD minutes after the assassination. I have shown in numerous posts in my "Statements That Sink The WC's Conclusions" that NO roll call was ever held and that many other people had left the TSBD after the assassination.
The first person that the HSCA mentions in this issue is Richard Randolph Carr.
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historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol12/pages/HSCA_Vol12_0006b.gif
(34) Richard Randolph Carr stated to the FBI on January 4, 1964, that he saw a man looking out of a window on the top floor of the depository a few minutes before Carr heard shots. He described the man as white, wearing a hat, tan sportcoat [sic] and glasses. He said that at the time of the motorcade, he was standing on or about the sixth floor of the new courthouse which was under construction at Houston and Commerce Streets. Carr said that from that spot he could only see the top floor and roof of the depository. Carr said that after the shots he was going toward the direction of the triple underpass; when he got to the intersection of Houston and Commerce Streets, he saw a man whom he believed to be the same individual he had seen in the window of the depository.
(35) Carr was not called to testify before the Warren Commission. (HSCA XII, p. 8)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol12/html/HSCA_Vol12_0006b.htm
January 4, 1964, FBI Interview with Carr:
Item 03.pdf (hood.edu)
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The man Carr saw was on the top floor (seventh floor) of the TSBD shortly before the first sound of gunfire. What the HSCA failed to mention is that the FBI interviewed Carr again on February 4, 1964, to clarify information previously furnished by him. Several things will be noted in this statement that weren't in the first one.
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...I observed a man looking out of a window on the top floor of the Texas School Book Depository building (sic). This man, a heavy set individual, who was wearing a hat, a tan sport coat, horned rimmed glasses, was not in the end window next to Houston St. but was I believe in the second window over from Houston St.
...I heard a noise which I took to be the backfire of an automobile or a firecracker. There was a slight pause after the first report and then two reports in quick succession. ...I looked toward the triple underpass just west of Houston and Elm Sts. It seemed to me that the noises I had heard came from this direction. ...I do not recall that I looked toward the Texas School Book Depository building (sic) after hearing the three reports.
While I was on Houston St. near the Commerce St. intersection I saw a man whom I believe was identical with the man I had earlier seen looking out the window of the Texas School Book Depository building (sic). This man, walking very fast, proceeded on Houston St. south to Commerce St., then east on Commerce St. to Record St. which is one block from Houston St. This man got into a 1961 or 1962 Grey Rambler Station Wagon which was parked just north of Commerce on Record St. The station wagon, which had a Texas license was driven by a young negro man, drove off in a northerly direction. (Oswald 201 File, Vol. 25, p. 70; p. 2 in original)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=111185#relPageId=70
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This gives us much more detail than the brief overview that the HSCA provides us with. The man observed by Carr was heavy set and he wore horn rimmed glasses. This was not provided by the HSCA as it was not included in the January 4, 1964, interview. We also see that Carr said the man he saw was two windows over from Houston St. and this would exclude the alleged sniper's nest (SN) as that was supposedly setup at the end window.
A very important point glossed over by the FBI in their initial interview; and then subsequently by the HSCA, was his description of the shot sequence. Numerous witnesses stated that they heard a shot and then two shots in quick succession. This sequence excludes LHO from being the only shooter as the alleged murder weapon, a 40" Mannlicher-Carcano (M-C), could not fire faster than every 2.3 seconds and that is without acquiring the target and aiming. This one fact excludes LHO from being the sole assassin.
Carr then states that he looked towards the triple underpass area (grassy knoll -- GK) as that is where he thought the shots came from. He further stated that he never even looked at the TSBD as he did not consider that to be the source for the noise. You may be thinking -- but didn't he say he saw a man in the TSBD? He did, but he told the FBI that he never said that the man he saw fired a shot. (Ibid., p. 72; p. 4 in original) What drew Carr's attention to this man after seeing him was his desire to leave the TSBD so fast after the shots. Why was this man in such a hurry to leave the scene and why didn't the WC care about this?
The next big thing is the type of vehicle that Carr said he saw the man get into. It was a 1961 or 1962 Grey Nash Rambler Station Wagon and quite a few witnesses saw a Rambler that day. Some believed that LHO was one of the men that got into it. Was this a getaway vehicle?
Needless to say, we can now see why the WC never called Carr to testify as he simply saw and heard too many things that did NOT match the made up official narrative.
Fortunately for us, Carr was called to testify in the ONLY real investigation and trial into the JFK assassination -- the Clay Shaw trial. Let's begin with what the HSCA wrote about the testimony.
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(35) ...According to the transcript of his testimony, Carr stated that he saw the man in the fifth-floor window of the Texas School Book Depository. ...Carr also described the hat as worn by the man as felt and said his glasses were very heavy-rimmed with heavy earpieces. He had on a tie and a tan sportcoat (sic). As the man ran, he was continually looking over his shoulder as though he was being followed. (HSCA XII, pp.8-9)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol12/html/HSCA_Vol12_0007a.htm
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We see even more detail from the Clay Shaw trial as he said the man that he saw was at the FIFTH-FLOOR window of the TSBD and not the top floor as his two FBI interviews stated. This is supported by other evidence as the fifth floor is mentioned in several other things as being the source of the shots. Here is his Shaw trial testimony about the fifth floor.
Q: Do you recall seeing anything unusual happening?
A: Yes, I do.
Q: Would you tell us what happened.
A: At the time the parade came down towards -- going to the School Book Depository, Dealey Plaza would have been to my left where I was standing, and at the Fifth Floor of the School Book Depository I noticed a man at the third window, this man was dressed – he had on a light hat, and I saw this man later going down Houston Street, to the corner of Commerce, and then turned toward town on Commerce, and at that time before this happened I heard a single shot which sounded like a small arms, maybe a pistol, and I immediately, immediately there was a slight pause and immediately after that I heard three rifle shots in succession, they seemed to be fired from an automatic rifle and they came --
He told the jury that he thought the first shot was like a "small arms" sound (i.e., a pistol) and then after a slight pause he heard THREE MORE SHOTS in succession, and this made him think they were from an automatic rifle. This is way more detail than the FBI gave us. No wonder they didn't want this in their reports. It shows that if you believe LHO was the only shooter then he had to be using an automatic type of weapon to fire three shots that fast, or, it shows that there was more than one shooter. Neither of these options was good for the WC.
He also describes the glasses that the man he observed wearing in much greater detail.
Q: You can say what you said.
A: I thought he was a Secret Agent man or an FBI man.
Q: What did the man in the window look like?
A: He had on a hat, a felt hat, a light hat, he had on heavy-rimmed glasses, dark, the glasses were heavy-rimmed, and heavy ear pieces on his glasses.
Q: Go ahead.
A: He had on a tie, he had on a light shirt, a tan sport coat.
The type of glasses the man was wearing made Carr think that he was a Secret Service (SS) agent as they had heavy earpieces attached to them. Why would this man have earpieces attached to his eyeglasses? Was he a spotter for the assassination? Was he hard of hearing? If he was the latter then he should have been easy to locate as, how many TSBD employees would need hearing aids? If he was the former, how did he get into and out of the TSBD so easily?
The HSCA continues their overview of Carr's observations.
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(36) ...Carr then said that he saw a Rambler station wagon with a rack on top parked on the wrong side of the street, heading north and facing in the direction of the railroad tracks, next to the depository.
(37) Carr said that immediately after the shots he saw three men emerge from behind the depository and enter the station wagon. He gave a description of one of them: he was “real dark-complected" and appeared to be Spanish or Cuban; he drove the car away, going north on Houston Street.
(38) During the Shaw trial testimony, Carr said he had reported this information to law enforcement officers and that someone had told him not to repeat this information.
(39) Committee investigators did not locate Richard Carr to discuss this information with him. (Ibid., p. 9)
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Here is Carr's testimony at the Shaw trial regarding the Rambler station wagon.
Q: Would you tell us what you observed.
A: Should I point it out, sir?
Q: Yes.
A: At this point right here, at this School Book Depository there was a Rambler Station Wagon there with a rack on the back, built on the top of this.
Q: Which way was the station wagon facing?
A: It was parked on the wrong side of the street, next to the School Book Depository heading north.
Q: North being the top of the photomap, north is the top as you have indicated?
A: North is the top, and it was headed in this direction towards the railroad tracks, and immediately after the shooting there was three men that emerged from behind the School Book Depository, there was a Latin, I can't say whether he was Spanish, Cuban, but he was real dark-complected, stepped out and opened the door, there was two men entered that station wagon, and the Latin drove it north on Houston. The car was in motion before the rear door was closed, and this one man got in the front, and then he slid in from the -- from the driver's side over, and the Latin got back and they proceeded north and it was moving before the rear door was closed, and the other man that I described to you being in this window which would have been one, two, the third window over here came across the street, he came down, coming towards the construction site on Houston Street, to Commerce, in a very big hurry, he came to Commerce Street and he turned toward town on Commerce Street and every once in a while he would look over his shoulder as if he was being followed.
Carr would be corroborated by a good number of other witnesses about the Rambler sighting. It is odd that the vehicle was parked in the way it was -- facing against the traffic flow. Why did it do this as it would naturally draw attention to it since the road was one-way? My thought is that it made it easier to find for the people that would be looking for it to leave Dealey Plaza (DP) in. There is no doubt to me that this was a getaway car. The driver matched a man Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig had met earlier as well. Craig let him go because he claimed not to be able to speak English and so much was going on that Craig didn't have time to find an interpreter.
Here is Carr's testimony regarding law enforcement telling him to remain quiet about what he saw.
Q: Now, Mr. Carr, did you have occasion to give this information to any law enforcement agencies?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Did anyone tell you not to say anything about this?
A: Yes.
BY MR. GARRISON:
Q: As the result of the conversations with the Federal Bureau of Investigation, what did you do?
A: I done as I was instructed, I shut my mouth.
Q: Were you called to testify before the Warren Commission?
A: No, sir.
It is a disgrace that a witness that saw this many things was never called to testify by the WC. Then they expected us to believe that they conducted a thorough investigation into the events of that day. Sure. The only thing they did thoroughly was cover up what actually did happen on November 22, 1963.
The other person who saw someone flee the TSBD was James Worrell. Keep in mind, the WC defenders claim that LHO fled but NO ONE was ever found to see him leave the building or walk the seven blocks he would have had to in order to catch the bus the WC claimed he boarded. How could LHO leave by the front of the building and have no one see him? Or walk seven blocks in heavy congestion and not be seen? It is easy IF he never left by the front of the building or walked seven blocks to catch a bus.
Here is what the HSCA wrote about Worrell.
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(40) James Worrell also reported to the FBI on November 23, 1963, that he saw a man leaving the TSBD and running from the area after the shots. Worrell told the FBI that he saw the man leave the depository building and run in the opposite direction; at the time. ...He described the man as white, 5 feet 8 inches to 5 feet 10 inches in height, with dark hair and wearing some type of jacket and dark clothing. According to the FBI report, when Worrell later saw Lee Harvey Oswald on television that night, Worrell believed Oswald was the person he had seen running from the depository. (Ibid.)
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James Worrell's November 23, 1963, FBI Interview:
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=233680#relPageId=4
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This is different from Carr's observation as Worrell said the man he saw was LHO! The description sure matches him as does the clothing if LHO had on Commission Exhibit (CE) 150 or a jacket. Worrell was a high school student at the time of the assassination. I mentioned this because this means he was a minor and would be easy to pressure. Here is WC testimony about him thinking the man he saw being LHO.
Mr. SPECTER - Mr. Worrell, we have a report from the Federal Bureau of Investigation which contains a purported interview with you, designated as report of Robert P. Gemberling dated November 30, 1963, which has this statement:
"He" - referring to you - "Stated that last night when he saw photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald on television he felt this was the person he had seen running away from the building. He stated this person did not look back but he was certain this was a white person since he had a profile view."
My question, first of all, to you: Did you have a profile view of the man who ran away from the building that you described?
Mr. WORRELL - No, sir.
Mr. SPECTER - The second question is, did you tell the FBI agent who interviewed you, that you felt that this person was Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. WORRELL - I don't know if I did or not.
It is easy to see he was affected by the pressure. If he wasn't, then his mother probably was. Here is FBI interview, again.
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=233680#relPageId=4
This report clearly states, "...he saw photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald on television, he felt this was the person he had seen running away from the building." Was the FBI known to add things to reports that were not said by the person they were interviewing? I doubt it, so this seems pretty firm to me. Why was Arlen Specter dealing with this anyway? He was used mostly for the medical area, but he was their top bully-boy as well. He would work over witness Jean Hill, too.
The reason Specter was brought in is because Worrell also said that he saw a rifle firing about "5 or 6 stories" over his head in his November 23, 1963, affidavit.
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=233680#relPageId=2
Anyone who said they saw a rifle, save for their star witness Howard Brennan of course, went under heavy scrutiny and firm questioning. This didn't help his case with the WC either.
Mr. SPECTER - How many shots did you hear?
Mr. WORRELL - Four.
Four shots was a no-no. See, the WC decided that ONLY three shots were fired. Anything else was "echoes." Sadly, Worrell would meet a tragic ending at a young age.
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(43) Richard Worrell died on November 5, 1966, in Dallas from severe head injuries sustained when his motorcycle went out of control. (Ibid.)
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Was this another coincidental death, or should it be added to the list? He was just 23 years old. Some researchers think that Worrell saw the same man that Carr did, but he didn't. His description is different, and he makes no mention of a hat or glasses. He is a witness for a man fleeing the TSBD and this man could have been LHO! This makes sense to me as he was never seen leaving the front of the TSBD by anyone.
A man came forward after Worrell's statement was made public who said that he was in the back of the TSBD, and he never saw anyone leave by the back of the building as Worrell had claimed. His name was James Romack and here is the pertinent portion of his claim from his 1964 FBI interview.
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Mr. Romack stated from the time he heard the shots he had looked toward the TSBD Building and had under his immediate observation the loading dock and the back door which are on an inset from what would be the northeast corner of the building. He stated he is positive that no one came out this door or out the loading dock doors which are immediately adjacent before the police ran along the side of the building, and he pointed out after the policeman went back to the front of the building he, ROMACK, kept the door and the dock under particular scrutiny since he realized from the actions of the policeman that someone might come out the back of the building. ...ROMACK stated that neither he nor RACKLEY saw anyone come out of the building. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 141, p. 51; p. 2 in original)
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=58972#relPageId=5
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So we see Romack disputed the claim of Worrell, but there is a point of contention. Romack limited his comments to the back door and the loading dock doors, but Worrell stated that the man he saw came out the "back entrance" of the TSBD. (HSCA XII, p. 9) This could be construed as the loading dock area, but what if the TSBD had a side door located near the back of the building? There are tons of photographs of the TSBD, but I can't find any that show the sides of the building very well. In fact, the west side of the building was shielded by trees so you can't see what is there. Does Romack's statement neutralize Worrell's?
Why were the authorities so quick to take Romack's statement as fact while treating Worrell's as inaccurate? Romack offered nothing but his word, so he didn't have any advantage and he was not treated in the manner Worrell was. The answer is obvious as his statement helped the authorities with the official claim whereas Worrell's hindered it.
The WC left off another witness who may have seen the same man that Carr saw. Again, fortunately for us, New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison didn't. I covered this in my Garrison Chronicles series. Her name is Elizabeth Carolyn Walton. You can read about her story here.
jfkconspiracyforum.freeforums.net/thread/1305/garrison-chronicles-elizabeth-carolyn-walton
The final witness who saw some either flee the TSBD or right near it was Jean Hill. She told the FBI that he was a "white man wearing a brown raincoat and a hat" and she said he was running toward the GK area. After a brief look into this issue, it was said that there was no further information on who it could have been if he was actually there.
That is it for the people seen leaving the TSBD in a hurry on November 22, 1963. The key point is other than Worrell, no one said they saw LHO fleeing as the WC defenders claim to this day. True, Worrell did think he saw LHO, but he was leaving the TSBD by the rear entrance and not the front as the WC claimed. It seems that the WC is wrong again.