Post by Rob Caprio on Nov 5, 2024 23:10:10 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2025
3.bp.blogspot.com/_I4lZU0BrRsg/TPXTI3y8v1I/AAAAAAAAAE4/Hot_KJ7VKdY/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/warren.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was the SOLE assassin and had NO help from anyone in committing the crime. This means he did NOT have associates that helped him, and it means he did NOT share information with anyone about his plans.
As we have seen before in other articles, a bunch of people seem to have had knowledge of what was going to happen in Dallas BEFORE it happened. Also, NOT discussed yet in other articles, there were two attempts planned on President John F. Kennedy (JFK) that had been spoiled (Chicago and Tampa (and some say Miami too)) so obviously LHO could have NOTHING to do with these attempts.
This article will look at another odd conversation that shows more people knew about the plans in Dallas.
**************************************
For years Commission Documents (CD) were kept from us as they are different from Commission Exhibits (CE) that were published in the twenty-six volumes by the WC in 1964. While a few were included, the vast majority were hidden away until Harold Weisberg, and others, got them released through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). Today, we are lucky as the Mary Ferrell Foundation has them online for us to view.
This article pertains to CD 645 which is a FBI report done by Agent Ewald Carlson on 3/6/1964. It pertained to a conversation that occurred in the Winnipeg International Airport in Canada that was overheard by an informant. In a nutshell this is what the informant heard (referred to as MP T-1 in the document).
Quote on
MP T-1 advised that on the above date (2/13/64) he had occasion to visit the bar situated in the Winnipeg International Airport and sat NEAR a table at which two persons were already seated. These persons were conversing in normal tones and consequently he paid little attention to them until he heard the name Oswald mentioned. MP T-1 stated that one of the individuals, herein referenced to as Number One, stated SEVERAL times, “How much did Oswald know. How much did SHE know.” It was MP T-1’s impression that the two individuals were speculating as to whether there are people other than Oswald WHO KNEW. MP T-1 explained that the background music in the bar and the normal activity within the place made it difficult for him to hear the entire conversation between these two individuals but that he did manage overhear parts of the ensuing conversation.
MP T-1 stated that after the query was made as to how much Oswald knew Number One made the statement, “We have a film that I have seen where Isaacs is seen near Kennedy after the landing.” Number Two then remarked something to the effect about Isaacs (blurred out) in a query, “Why should a person with such a (blurred out) as Isaacs’ become mixed up with a pyscho.” The impression received by MP T-1 was that the two unknown subjects were still referring to Isaacs. Number One then made the statement Hoffman or Hauchtman (phonetic) is or was searching for Isaacs and there was a mention of a car, a 1958 Dodge, which should be looked after when Isaacs is found. It appeared to MP T-1 that the gist of this conversation appeared to be that the car was supposed to be DISPOSED of and if Isaacs could be found he could clear the matter up. Number One then stated that even if Isaacs (?) is FOUND GUILTY the BUREAU (blurred out) STOP THEIR INVESTIGATION. (CD 645, p. 2) (Emphasis mine)
www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11044&relPageId=3
Quote off
We see in this report that the mention of what did “she know”, and this makes us wonder who they are talking about. Could it be Ruth Paine? Perhaps, but the name Isaacs kind of gives it away. LHO’s cousin, Dorothy Murret, was married to a Harold R. Isaacs and he worked as a Research Associate at the Center for International Studies at MIT. In CD 1080, an FBI report dated May 22, 1964, we see an overview of Isaacs. What is strange is this is supposed to be about Dorothy Murret as that is what the title says, but it seems to be all about Isaacs and his background. It mentions he spent a good bit of time in China and that his sympathies laid with the “Chinese Communists”, but that he never joined the Communist party. At twenty-one he joined the Merchant MARINES and got assigned to a ship going to China where he would stay from 1931 until 1936. He would even edit an English weekly paper called “The China Forum.”
CD 1080:
www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11476&relPageId=5
This report states that he was “openly sympathetic toward the Communists, espoused the Communist doctrines in his paper, and developed numerous contacts among the Chinese Communists…”. Later in the report it mentions that he eventually learned that the Chinese Communists were deceitful and playing politics (i.e. they were politicians) so he became increasingly estranged from them. Does any of this sound familiar to you? In many ways this is the same story we got about LHO.
The intriguing part for us is that in this report it mentions a book called the The Shanghai Conspiracy by Major General C.A. Willoughby. This book would be released in 1952 and the interesting part is that it included a chart of people who had Communist ties. He would object to be listing because he said it was a “broad category, from which it was impossible to tell whether the person was listed as an ESPIONAGE AGENT, a Communist AGENT, or merely a sympathizer of the Chinese Communists, was extremely unfair and possibly libelous.”
What made him really bitter was the INCLUSION OF HIS WIFE’S NAME (LHO’s cousin) in the list. When he inquired to the publisher what made them think this they mentioned that they had letters written either by him or his wife which were the basis for the listing! General Willoughby was also neck deep in the INTELLIGENCE world himself so he should know. During WWII Willoughby had been part of the G-2 Military Intelligence Service and he would work with Ed Lansdale (known CIA man) in Manila and both would be eventually recruited by the CIA.
Dick Russell in his book The Man Who Knew Too Much wrote this about Willoughby (who was German born):
"Willoughby was in regular correspondence with Allen Dulles - before JFK fired Dulles - and with ex(?) Nazis who ran the CIA’s European-based spy network" (p. 707).
Willoughby was McArthur’s intelligence man, and he has been linked to the JFK assassination by some over the years. How? Clint Murchison, Jr. of Dallas, Texas, was the son of Clint Murchison, Sr. who, according to Dick Russell, author of the book, The Man Who Knew Too Much (pp. 521-523) was cut from the same political cloth as H.L. Hunt.
Quote on
Back in 1951, after General Douglas MacArthur was relieved of his Korean command by President Truman, H.L. Hunt accompanied MacArthur on a flight to Texas for a speaking tour. Hunt and Murchison were the chief organizers of the pro-MacArthur forces in Texas. They would always remember the general standing bareheaded in front of the Alamo, urging removal of the `burden of taxation' from enterprising men like themselves, charging that such restraints were imposed by `those who seek to convert us to a form of socialistic endeavor, leading directly to the path of Communist slavery.'"
Hunt went on to set up a Mac-Arthur-for-president headquarters in Chicago, spending $150,000 of his own money on the general's reluctant 1952 campaign, which eventually fell apart as MacArthur adopted the strident rhetoric of the right wing.
Still, connections were made as Charles Willoughby, for example, was a regular part of the MacArthur-Hunt entourage and undoubtedly was acquainted with Murchison as well. Both [the Hunts and the Murchisons] cultivated not only powerful people on the far right, but also J. Edgar Hoover, Richard Nixon, organized crime figures, and Lyndon Johnson, whose rise to power emanated directly from his friends in Texas oil.
Like Hunt, Murchison was an ardent supporter of Senator Joseph McCarthy's anticommunist crusade. McCarthy came often to the exclusive hotel that Murchison opened in La Jolla, California, in the early 1950's. So did Richard Nixon and J. Edgar Hoover.
In 1961, after Nixon had lost the presidential election to JFK the previous year, Murchison sold Nixon a lot in Beverly Hills for only $35,000 a lot Murchison had financed through a Hoffa loan which Nixon sold two years later for $86,000.
Quote off
As we can see Willoughby was connected to quite a few people who have been suspected of being behind the JFK assassination over the years. Here is a memorandum from Alan Belmont at the FBI regarding Isaacs from July 21, 1955.
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=125343#relPageId=2
The main point of this article is to show again there was evidence existing for the WC to read and see that others knew something of the plot against JFK. Another CD carries more evidence of some foreknowledge of the assassination too. In CD 206, page 66 we find this.
Quote on
On November 26, 1963, Confidential Informant, Dallas T-4, advised that he had received information that a male voice was overheard in a conversation which took place between telephone number CR. 5-5211, Arlington, Texas, and telephone number BL. 3-1628, Irving, Texas, on November 23, 1963. Informant advised that exact time of this call was not available and that it was not known from which of the telephone numbers the call originated.
Informant advised that the male voice was heard to comment that he felt sure Lee Harvey Oswald had killed the President but did NOT feel Oswald was responsible, and further stated, “We both know WHO is responsible.” (CD 206, p. 66)
www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10673&relPageId=71
Quote off
Even though it does NOT say who the man and the woman were in the document recount, the call was later traced to Michael and Ruth Paine. Did Michael and Ruth Paine know more about the assassination than they ever dared tell? One can only wonder. The FBI may have wondered about the Paines, too, because they had put a tap on their phone, (Presumably, the official reason for tapping the Paine telephone was that the feds were keeping an eye on former defector Lee Oswald, whose wife was then living with Ruth Paine in Irving.) and on the afternoon of November 23, 1963, heard an extraordinary exchange. As Anthony Summers relates.
Quote on
... a telephone call was intercepted in Dallas in which a "male voice was heard to say that he felt sure Lee Harvey Oswald had killed the President but did not feel Oswald was responsible, and further stated, `We both know who is responsible.' " ... the tapped telephone numbers were those of Michael Paine and his wife, Ruth Paine, the woman who was playing host to Marina Oswald at the time of the assassination." (Summers, Conspiracy, p. 103 (Chapter 7, "A Sphinx for Texas.") Summers cites Warren Commission Document 206, p. 66, which he says was declassified in 1976.)
Quote off
Although he fails to state it involved an FBI phone tap--not an inconsequential fact--WC attorney Liebeler asked Michael Paine about this phone call during his testimony on March18, 1964.
Mr. Liebeler. Now, there has been a report that on November 23, 1963, there was a telephone call between a man and a woman, between the numbers of your residence and the number of your office, in which the man was reported to have said in words or substance, "We both know who is responsible for the assassination." Have you been asked about this before?
Mr. Paine. I had heard that--I didn't know it was associated with our numbers. I had heard a report that some telephone operator had listened in on a conversation somewhere, I don't know where it was. I thought it was some other part of the country.
Mr. Liebeler. Did you talked to your wife on the telephone at any time during Saturday, November 23, on the telephone?
Mr. Paine. I was in the police station again, and I think I called her from there.
Mr. Liebeler. Did you make any remark to the effect that you knew who was responsible?
Mr. Paine. And I don't know who the assassin is or was; no, so I did not.
Mr. Liebeler. You are positive in your recollection that you made no such remark?
Mr. Paine. Yes. (Vol. II, p. 428)
Despite Michael Paine’s lie (they knew he was lying because their home and work phones were being tapped by the FBI so they knew where the numbers went) it was a call between them, and he did say this. This again shows others had advanced knowledge of the crime.
In the video above, the informant says the man was named "Clifford Isaacs" and he believed that he was involved with James Earl Ray. Unfortunately, there is nothing about him to be found. Why was information on him not shared with us?
The evidence presented here sinks the conclusion of the WC because it shows others had knowledge of the crime BEFORE it occurred, and this is just NOT possible if LHO acted alone with NO help as the WC claimed. This means that their conclusion is incorrect.
3.bp.blogspot.com/_I4lZU0BrRsg/TPXTI3y8v1I/AAAAAAAAAE4/Hot_KJ7VKdY/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/warren.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was the SOLE assassin and had NO help from anyone in committing the crime. This means he did NOT have associates that helped him, and it means he did NOT share information with anyone about his plans.
As we have seen before in other articles, a bunch of people seem to have had knowledge of what was going to happen in Dallas BEFORE it happened. Also, NOT discussed yet in other articles, there were two attempts planned on President John F. Kennedy (JFK) that had been spoiled (Chicago and Tampa (and some say Miami too)) so obviously LHO could have NOTHING to do with these attempts.
This article will look at another odd conversation that shows more people knew about the plans in Dallas.
**************************************
For years Commission Documents (CD) were kept from us as they are different from Commission Exhibits (CE) that were published in the twenty-six volumes by the WC in 1964. While a few were included, the vast majority were hidden away until Harold Weisberg, and others, got them released through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). Today, we are lucky as the Mary Ferrell Foundation has them online for us to view.
This article pertains to CD 645 which is a FBI report done by Agent Ewald Carlson on 3/6/1964. It pertained to a conversation that occurred in the Winnipeg International Airport in Canada that was overheard by an informant. In a nutshell this is what the informant heard (referred to as MP T-1 in the document).
Quote on
MP T-1 advised that on the above date (2/13/64) he had occasion to visit the bar situated in the Winnipeg International Airport and sat NEAR a table at which two persons were already seated. These persons were conversing in normal tones and consequently he paid little attention to them until he heard the name Oswald mentioned. MP T-1 stated that one of the individuals, herein referenced to as Number One, stated SEVERAL times, “How much did Oswald know. How much did SHE know.” It was MP T-1’s impression that the two individuals were speculating as to whether there are people other than Oswald WHO KNEW. MP T-1 explained that the background music in the bar and the normal activity within the place made it difficult for him to hear the entire conversation between these two individuals but that he did manage overhear parts of the ensuing conversation.
MP T-1 stated that after the query was made as to how much Oswald knew Number One made the statement, “We have a film that I have seen where Isaacs is seen near Kennedy after the landing.” Number Two then remarked something to the effect about Isaacs (blurred out) in a query, “Why should a person with such a (blurred out) as Isaacs’ become mixed up with a pyscho.” The impression received by MP T-1 was that the two unknown subjects were still referring to Isaacs. Number One then made the statement Hoffman or Hauchtman (phonetic) is or was searching for Isaacs and there was a mention of a car, a 1958 Dodge, which should be looked after when Isaacs is found. It appeared to MP T-1 that the gist of this conversation appeared to be that the car was supposed to be DISPOSED of and if Isaacs could be found he could clear the matter up. Number One then stated that even if Isaacs (?) is FOUND GUILTY the BUREAU (blurred out) STOP THEIR INVESTIGATION. (CD 645, p. 2) (Emphasis mine)
www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11044&relPageId=3
Quote off
We see in this report that the mention of what did “she know”, and this makes us wonder who they are talking about. Could it be Ruth Paine? Perhaps, but the name Isaacs kind of gives it away. LHO’s cousin, Dorothy Murret, was married to a Harold R. Isaacs and he worked as a Research Associate at the Center for International Studies at MIT. In CD 1080, an FBI report dated May 22, 1964, we see an overview of Isaacs. What is strange is this is supposed to be about Dorothy Murret as that is what the title says, but it seems to be all about Isaacs and his background. It mentions he spent a good bit of time in China and that his sympathies laid with the “Chinese Communists”, but that he never joined the Communist party. At twenty-one he joined the Merchant MARINES and got assigned to a ship going to China where he would stay from 1931 until 1936. He would even edit an English weekly paper called “The China Forum.”
CD 1080:
www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11476&relPageId=5
This report states that he was “openly sympathetic toward the Communists, espoused the Communist doctrines in his paper, and developed numerous contacts among the Chinese Communists…”. Later in the report it mentions that he eventually learned that the Chinese Communists were deceitful and playing politics (i.e. they were politicians) so he became increasingly estranged from them. Does any of this sound familiar to you? In many ways this is the same story we got about LHO.
The intriguing part for us is that in this report it mentions a book called the The Shanghai Conspiracy by Major General C.A. Willoughby. This book would be released in 1952 and the interesting part is that it included a chart of people who had Communist ties. He would object to be listing because he said it was a “broad category, from which it was impossible to tell whether the person was listed as an ESPIONAGE AGENT, a Communist AGENT, or merely a sympathizer of the Chinese Communists, was extremely unfair and possibly libelous.”
What made him really bitter was the INCLUSION OF HIS WIFE’S NAME (LHO’s cousin) in the list. When he inquired to the publisher what made them think this they mentioned that they had letters written either by him or his wife which were the basis for the listing! General Willoughby was also neck deep in the INTELLIGENCE world himself so he should know. During WWII Willoughby had been part of the G-2 Military Intelligence Service and he would work with Ed Lansdale (known CIA man) in Manila and both would be eventually recruited by the CIA.
Dick Russell in his book The Man Who Knew Too Much wrote this about Willoughby (who was German born):
"Willoughby was in regular correspondence with Allen Dulles - before JFK fired Dulles - and with ex(?) Nazis who ran the CIA’s European-based spy network" (p. 707).
Willoughby was McArthur’s intelligence man, and he has been linked to the JFK assassination by some over the years. How? Clint Murchison, Jr. of Dallas, Texas, was the son of Clint Murchison, Sr. who, according to Dick Russell, author of the book, The Man Who Knew Too Much (pp. 521-523) was cut from the same political cloth as H.L. Hunt.
Quote on
Back in 1951, after General Douglas MacArthur was relieved of his Korean command by President Truman, H.L. Hunt accompanied MacArthur on a flight to Texas for a speaking tour. Hunt and Murchison were the chief organizers of the pro-MacArthur forces in Texas. They would always remember the general standing bareheaded in front of the Alamo, urging removal of the `burden of taxation' from enterprising men like themselves, charging that such restraints were imposed by `those who seek to convert us to a form of socialistic endeavor, leading directly to the path of Communist slavery.'"
Hunt went on to set up a Mac-Arthur-for-president headquarters in Chicago, spending $150,000 of his own money on the general's reluctant 1952 campaign, which eventually fell apart as MacArthur adopted the strident rhetoric of the right wing.
Still, connections were made as Charles Willoughby, for example, was a regular part of the MacArthur-Hunt entourage and undoubtedly was acquainted with Murchison as well. Both [the Hunts and the Murchisons] cultivated not only powerful people on the far right, but also J. Edgar Hoover, Richard Nixon, organized crime figures, and Lyndon Johnson, whose rise to power emanated directly from his friends in Texas oil.
Like Hunt, Murchison was an ardent supporter of Senator Joseph McCarthy's anticommunist crusade. McCarthy came often to the exclusive hotel that Murchison opened in La Jolla, California, in the early 1950's. So did Richard Nixon and J. Edgar Hoover.
In 1961, after Nixon had lost the presidential election to JFK the previous year, Murchison sold Nixon a lot in Beverly Hills for only $35,000 a lot Murchison had financed through a Hoffa loan which Nixon sold two years later for $86,000.
Quote off
As we can see Willoughby was connected to quite a few people who have been suspected of being behind the JFK assassination over the years. Here is a memorandum from Alan Belmont at the FBI regarding Isaacs from July 21, 1955.
www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=125343#relPageId=2
The main point of this article is to show again there was evidence existing for the WC to read and see that others knew something of the plot against JFK. Another CD carries more evidence of some foreknowledge of the assassination too. In CD 206, page 66 we find this.
Quote on
On November 26, 1963, Confidential Informant, Dallas T-4, advised that he had received information that a male voice was overheard in a conversation which took place between telephone number CR. 5-5211, Arlington, Texas, and telephone number BL. 3-1628, Irving, Texas, on November 23, 1963. Informant advised that exact time of this call was not available and that it was not known from which of the telephone numbers the call originated.
Informant advised that the male voice was heard to comment that he felt sure Lee Harvey Oswald had killed the President but did NOT feel Oswald was responsible, and further stated, “We both know WHO is responsible.” (CD 206, p. 66)
www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10673&relPageId=71
Quote off
Even though it does NOT say who the man and the woman were in the document recount, the call was later traced to Michael and Ruth Paine. Did Michael and Ruth Paine know more about the assassination than they ever dared tell? One can only wonder. The FBI may have wondered about the Paines, too, because they had put a tap on their phone, (Presumably, the official reason for tapping the Paine telephone was that the feds were keeping an eye on former defector Lee Oswald, whose wife was then living with Ruth Paine in Irving.) and on the afternoon of November 23, 1963, heard an extraordinary exchange. As Anthony Summers relates.
Quote on
... a telephone call was intercepted in Dallas in which a "male voice was heard to say that he felt sure Lee Harvey Oswald had killed the President but did not feel Oswald was responsible, and further stated, `We both know who is responsible.' " ... the tapped telephone numbers were those of Michael Paine and his wife, Ruth Paine, the woman who was playing host to Marina Oswald at the time of the assassination." (Summers, Conspiracy, p. 103 (Chapter 7, "A Sphinx for Texas.") Summers cites Warren Commission Document 206, p. 66, which he says was declassified in 1976.)
Quote off
Although he fails to state it involved an FBI phone tap--not an inconsequential fact--WC attorney Liebeler asked Michael Paine about this phone call during his testimony on March18, 1964.
Mr. Liebeler. Now, there has been a report that on November 23, 1963, there was a telephone call between a man and a woman, between the numbers of your residence and the number of your office, in which the man was reported to have said in words or substance, "We both know who is responsible for the assassination." Have you been asked about this before?
Mr. Paine. I had heard that--I didn't know it was associated with our numbers. I had heard a report that some telephone operator had listened in on a conversation somewhere, I don't know where it was. I thought it was some other part of the country.
Mr. Liebeler. Did you talked to your wife on the telephone at any time during Saturday, November 23, on the telephone?
Mr. Paine. I was in the police station again, and I think I called her from there.
Mr. Liebeler. Did you make any remark to the effect that you knew who was responsible?
Mr. Paine. And I don't know who the assassin is or was; no, so I did not.
Mr. Liebeler. You are positive in your recollection that you made no such remark?
Mr. Paine. Yes. (Vol. II, p. 428)
Despite Michael Paine’s lie (they knew he was lying because their home and work phones were being tapped by the FBI so they knew where the numbers went) it was a call between them, and he did say this. This again shows others had advanced knowledge of the crime.
In the video above, the informant says the man was named "Clifford Isaacs" and he believed that he was involved with James Earl Ray. Unfortunately, there is nothing about him to be found. Why was information on him not shared with us?
The evidence presented here sinks the conclusion of the WC because it shows others had knowledge of the crime BEFORE it occurred, and this is just NOT possible if LHO acted alone with NO help as the WC claimed. This means that their conclusion is incorrect.