Post by Rob Caprio on Apr 13, 2019 21:44:17 GMT -5
All portions ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
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In CE 994 (a translation of Marina’s story) we see a bland mention of the General Edwin Walker incident and what LHO did following it. On page 629 we see the following:
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I asked Lee where his rifle was, where he had left it, since someone might find it. He answered that he had buried it. Several days later he brought it home. (CE 994, p. 629)
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This is cut and dried as no details are given. Earlier on page 627 & 628 she said this:
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It happened like this: I knew that Lee had a rifle but did not pay any particular attention to it. Many men have rifles. How could I have known what this rifle was meant for? (CE 994, pp. 627-628)
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The problem for me is this is just a claim. No discussion of HOW she knew he had a rifle is mentioned at all. Where did LHO keep it in the small apartment? Why did the Garners NOT see him carrying any package that could contain a rifle if he was prone to doing this as she hints at?
If we go to CE 1403 (FBI report 12/13/63) we will get a little more detail on this issue. On page 777 we will see this statement.
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Marina said she had asked Oswald when he returned home on the night of the attempted assassination what he had done with the rifle because she was worried lest he had left it somewhere where it could be found. Oswald said he had BURIED the rifle in the ground FAR FROM the actual spot of the shooting. He then mentioned a field and the fact the field was near a railroad track. She said Oswald had remarked that there had been a number of people around on the evening of the shooting. Oswald did not say and she did not ask him what he had done with the rifle after the first evening when he went to shoot at Walker but had CHANGED his mind.
She recalls he returned to the Neely Street home with the rifle wrapped in a raincoat on the Sunday following the night of the assassination attempt. (Emphasis mine) (CE 1403, p. 777)
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This is an interesting summary as it reveals many things. First off, how did LHO get “far from” the actual shooting site of Walker to bury his rifle in the field? If he took a bus to do this he might has well taken a bus home then, right? We also have to think he took a bus TO the Walker house and again, once you did that you might has well just take the rifle home with you as you have witnesses that saw you with a rifle heading near the place of the shooting. Ditto leaving the scene with the rifle.
Secondly, what does she mean by “he went to shoot at Walker but had CHANGED his mind?” Doesn’t it sound like she is admitting he did NOT shoot at Walker as claimed? It sure does to me. Finally, we get to the story of him bringing the rifle home on the Sunday following the shooting (which was a Wednesday) in a raincoat. What happened to this raincoat? What time did he do this? This is important because the DeMohrenschildts came over on Easter Sunday to visit the Oswalds. George deMohrenschildt said the following in his testimony about the event.
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. On Neely I think one block from the previous place they used to live.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. And Jeanne told me that day, "Let's go and take a rabbit for Oswald's baby."
Mr. JENNER. This was on Easter Sunday?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Easter day. I don't remember it was Easter Sunday.
Mr. JENNER. Easter is always on Sunday.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. Mr. Reporter, Jeanne is spelled J-e-a-n-n-e.
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. And I think Oswald and I were standing near the window looking outside and I was asking him "How is your job" or "Are you making any money? Are you happy," some question of that type. All of a sudden Jeanne who was with Marina in the other room told me "Look, George, they have a gun here." And Marina opened the closet and showed it to Jeanne, a gun that belonged obviously to Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. This was a weapon? Did you go in and look?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. No; I didn't look at the gun. I was still standing. The closet was open. Jeanne was looking at it, at the gun, and I think she asked Marina "what is that" you see. That was the sight on the gun. "What is that? That looks like a telescopic sight." And Marina said "That crazy :cop: is target shooting all the time." So frankly I thought it was ridiculous to shoot target shooting in Dallas, you see, right in town. I asked him "Why do you do that?"
Here is what Jeanne deMohrenschildt said before the WC about this incident.
Mr. JENNER. Then, go on. Tell me about it.
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. And I believe from what I remember George sat down on the sofa and started talking to Lee, and Marina was showing me the house that is why I said it looks like it was the first time, because why would she show me the house if I had been there before? Then we went to another room, and she opens the closet, and I see the gun standing there. I said, what is the gun doing over there?
Mr. JENNER. You say---
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. A rifle.
Mr. JENNER. A rifle, in the closet?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. In the closet, right in the beginning. It wasn't hidden or anything.
Mr. JENNER. Standing up on its butt?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Nowhere did she mention it being dirty or looking like it had been buried in dirt. LHO had NO cleaning supplies so even IF he got it home on Easter Sunday BEFORE the deMohrenschildts came, how do you explain this? Mrs. DeMohrenschildt would say it had a scope on it too.
Mr. JENNER. It was this rifle?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't know. It looks very much like it, because something was dangling over it, and I didn't know what it was. This telescopic sight. Like we had a rifle with us on the road, we just had a smooth thing, nothing attached to it. And I saw something here.
Mr. JENNER. And then other things that arrested your attention, as I gather from what you said, is that you saw a telescopic sight?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; but I didn't know what it was.
George’s testimony mentions him overhearing them discussing the sight on the rifle (see above), but when Marina testified she said LHO kept the rifle OUT IN THE OPEN and it had NO scope on it!
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the first time that you observed the rifle?
Mrs. OSWALD. That was on Neely Street. I think that was in February.
NOTE: LHO did NOT even allegedly order the rifle until March so how could she see it in February?
Mr. RANKIN. How did you learn about it? Did you see it some place in the apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, Lee had a small room where he spent a great deal of time, where he read---where he kept his things, and that is where the rifle was.
Mr. RANKIN. Was it out in the room at that time, as distinguished from in a closet in the room?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it was open, out in the open. At first I think---I saw some package up on the top shelf, and I think that that was the rifle. But I didn't know. And apparently later he assembled it and had it in the room.
Mr. RANKIN. When you saw the rifle assembled in the room, did it have the scope on it?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, it did not have a scope on it.
Mr. RANKIN. Was the rifle later placed in a closet in the apartment at Neely Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, it was always either in a corner, standing up in a corner or on a shelf.
So how did Mrs. DeMohrenschildt see it in a closet with a scope on it again? Does this make any sense to you? This would have been torn apart on cross by the defense team. Something does NOT add up here. Back to the raincoat, where was it on 11/22/63? Why was NO attempt made to find this coat or the field where LHO allegedly buried the rifle in? Why was NONE of this story checked out to see if it really happened? Why was the time LHO allegedly brought the rifle back to Neely Street never looked into to see if it was BEFORE the visit by the deMohrenschildts? Or how he cleaned the weapon with NO cleaning supplies?
Marina would be asked about him taking the rifle out of the apartment and whether she had seen him clean it or not, and this is what she said.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall your husband taking the rifle away from the apartment on Neely Street at any time?
Mrs. OSWALD. You must know that the rifle it isn't as if it was out in the open. He would hang a coat or something to mask its presence in the room. And sometimes when he walked out, when he went out in the evening I didn't know, because I didn't go into that room very often. I don't know whether he took it with him or not.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever see him clean the rifle?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I said before I had never seen it before. But I think you understand. I want to help you, and that is why there is no reason for concealing anything. I will not be charged with anything.
First of all, she said she was NOT sure if he took it out, but remember she asked him as soon as he got home on the night of April 10th what he did with the rifle! If she really didn't know if it was gone or not how did she know to ask him this as we saw in CE-1403? Does this make any sense to you?
Secondly, what does she mean by I want to help you, and that there is NO reason to conceal anything and she will NOT be charged with anything? Is this an answer to the question? I don't think so. Her following answer is very dubious after this exchange.
Mr. GOPADZE. She says she was not sworn in before. But now inasmuch as she is sworn in, she is going to tell the truth.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you see him clean the rifle a number of times?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Could you help us by giving some estimate of the times as you remember it?
Mrs. OSWALD. About four times---about four or five times, I think.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband ever tell you why he was cleaning the--that is, that he had been using it and needed to be cleaned after use?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, I did not ask him, because I thought it was quite normal that when you have a rifle you must clean it from time to time.
What did they mean that NOW that she was sworn in she would tell the truth? Did that mean if she was NOT sworn in she would lie? Or was it the other WAY AROUND? She would aslo do an about face on him taking it from Neely St. too! She just said she did NOT know, but after this highly unusual exchange she would say this.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever observe your husband taking the rifle away from the apartment on Neely Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. Now, I think that he probably did sometimes, but I never did see it. You must understand that sometimes I would be in the kitchen and he would be in his room downstairs, and he would say bye-bye, I will be hack soon, and he may have taken it. He probably did. Perhaps he purely waited for an occasion when he could take it away without my seeing it.
IF you didn't see it and he kept the rifle hidden (per herself), how did she know he did take it out all of a sudden? Does any of this make any sense to you? It seems contrived and full of baloney to me. Again, NO cleaning supplies were ever found among LHO's possessions, so if he was cleaning his alleged rife, what was he using? She would also DENY the incident the deMohrenschildts mentioned BEFORE her curious exchange with the WC.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever show that rifle to the De Mohrenschildts?
Mrs. OSWALD. I know that De Mohrenschildts had said that the rifle had been shown to him, but I don't remember that.
Here is a great look at the year 1963 —CE 401 —and how all this fit by virtue of Mrs. Paine’s calendar. Can any WC defender explain this stuff?
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0041b.jpg
i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/dam/assets/131113145756-jfk-assassination-maj-gen-edwin-walker-little-rock-story-top.jpg
In CE 994 (a translation of Marina’s story) we see a bland mention of the General Edwin Walker incident and what LHO did following it. On page 629 we see the following:
Quote on
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/pages/WH_Vol18_0322a.gif
I asked Lee where his rifle was, where he had left it, since someone might find it. He answered that he had buried it. Several days later he brought it home. (CE 994, p. 629)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0322a.htm
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This is cut and dried as no details are given. Earlier on page 627 & 628 she said this:
Quote on
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/pages/WH_Vol18_0321a.gif
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/pages/WH_Vol18_0321b.gif
It happened like this: I knew that Lee had a rifle but did not pay any particular attention to it. Many men have rifles. How could I have known what this rifle was meant for? (CE 994, pp. 627-628)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/html/WH_Vol18_0321a.htm
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The problem for me is this is just a claim. No discussion of HOW she knew he had a rifle is mentioned at all. Where did LHO keep it in the small apartment? Why did the Garners NOT see him carrying any package that could contain a rifle if he was prone to doing this as she hints at?
If we go to CE 1403 (FBI report 12/13/63) we will get a little more detail on this issue. On page 777 we will see this statement.
Quote on
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0404a.gif
Marina said she had asked Oswald when he returned home on the night of the attempted assassination what he had done with the rifle because she was worried lest he had left it somewhere where it could be found. Oswald said he had BURIED the rifle in the ground FAR FROM the actual spot of the shooting. He then mentioned a field and the fact the field was near a railroad track. She said Oswald had remarked that there had been a number of people around on the evening of the shooting. Oswald did not say and she did not ask him what he had done with the rifle after the first evening when he went to shoot at Walker but had CHANGED his mind.
She recalls he returned to the Neely Street home with the rifle wrapped in a raincoat on the Sunday following the night of the assassination attempt. (Emphasis mine) (CE 1403, p. 777)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0404a.htm
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This is an interesting summary as it reveals many things. First off, how did LHO get “far from” the actual shooting site of Walker to bury his rifle in the field? If he took a bus to do this he might has well taken a bus home then, right? We also have to think he took a bus TO the Walker house and again, once you did that you might has well just take the rifle home with you as you have witnesses that saw you with a rifle heading near the place of the shooting. Ditto leaving the scene with the rifle.
Secondly, what does she mean by “he went to shoot at Walker but had CHANGED his mind?” Doesn’t it sound like she is admitting he did NOT shoot at Walker as claimed? It sure does to me. Finally, we get to the story of him bringing the rifle home on the Sunday following the shooting (which was a Wednesday) in a raincoat. What happened to this raincoat? What time did he do this? This is important because the DeMohrenschildts came over on Easter Sunday to visit the Oswalds. George deMohrenschildt said the following in his testimony about the event.
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. On Neely I think one block from the previous place they used to live.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. And Jeanne told me that day, "Let's go and take a rabbit for Oswald's baby."
Mr. JENNER. This was on Easter Sunday?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Easter day. I don't remember it was Easter Sunday.
Mr. JENNER. Easter is always on Sunday.
Mr. JENNER. Excuse me. Mr. Reporter, Jeanne is spelled J-e-a-n-n-e.
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. And I think Oswald and I were standing near the window looking outside and I was asking him "How is your job" or "Are you making any money? Are you happy," some question of that type. All of a sudden Jeanne who was with Marina in the other room told me "Look, George, they have a gun here." And Marina opened the closet and showed it to Jeanne, a gun that belonged obviously to Oswald.
Mr. JENNER. This was a weapon? Did you go in and look?
Mr. De MOHRENSCHILDT. No; I didn't look at the gun. I was still standing. The closet was open. Jeanne was looking at it, at the gun, and I think she asked Marina "what is that" you see. That was the sight on the gun. "What is that? That looks like a telescopic sight." And Marina said "That crazy :cop: is target shooting all the time." So frankly I thought it was ridiculous to shoot target shooting in Dallas, you see, right in town. I asked him "Why do you do that?"
Here is what Jeanne deMohrenschildt said before the WC about this incident.
Mr. JENNER. Then, go on. Tell me about it.
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. And I believe from what I remember George sat down on the sofa and started talking to Lee, and Marina was showing me the house that is why I said it looks like it was the first time, because why would she show me the house if I had been there before? Then we went to another room, and she opens the closet, and I see the gun standing there. I said, what is the gun doing over there?
Mr. JENNER. You say---
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. A rifle.
Mr. JENNER. A rifle, in the closet?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. In the closet, right in the beginning. It wasn't hidden or anything.
Mr. JENNER. Standing up on its butt?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes.
Nowhere did she mention it being dirty or looking like it had been buried in dirt. LHO had NO cleaning supplies so even IF he got it home on Easter Sunday BEFORE the deMohrenschildts came, how do you explain this? Mrs. DeMohrenschildt would say it had a scope on it too.
Mr. JENNER. It was this rifle?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. I don't know. It looks very much like it, because something was dangling over it, and I didn't know what it was. This telescopic sight. Like we had a rifle with us on the road, we just had a smooth thing, nothing attached to it. And I saw something here.
Mr. JENNER. And then other things that arrested your attention, as I gather from what you said, is that you saw a telescopic sight?
Mrs. De MOHRENSCHILDT. Yes; but I didn't know what it was.
George’s testimony mentions him overhearing them discussing the sight on the rifle (see above), but when Marina testified she said LHO kept the rifle OUT IN THE OPEN and it had NO scope on it!
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall the first time that you observed the rifle?
Mrs. OSWALD. That was on Neely Street. I think that was in February.
NOTE: LHO did NOT even allegedly order the rifle until March so how could she see it in February?
Mr. RANKIN. How did you learn about it? Did you see it some place in the apartment?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, Lee had a small room where he spent a great deal of time, where he read---where he kept his things, and that is where the rifle was.
Mr. RANKIN. Was it out in the room at that time, as distinguished from in a closet in the room?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, it was open, out in the open. At first I think---I saw some package up on the top shelf, and I think that that was the rifle. But I didn't know. And apparently later he assembled it and had it in the room.
Mr. RANKIN. When you saw the rifle assembled in the room, did it have the scope on it?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, it did not have a scope on it.
Mr. RANKIN. Was the rifle later placed in a closet in the apartment at Neely Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, it was always either in a corner, standing up in a corner or on a shelf.
So how did Mrs. DeMohrenschildt see it in a closet with a scope on it again? Does this make any sense to you? This would have been torn apart on cross by the defense team. Something does NOT add up here. Back to the raincoat, where was it on 11/22/63? Why was NO attempt made to find this coat or the field where LHO allegedly buried the rifle in? Why was NONE of this story checked out to see if it really happened? Why was the time LHO allegedly brought the rifle back to Neely Street never looked into to see if it was BEFORE the visit by the deMohrenschildts? Or how he cleaned the weapon with NO cleaning supplies?
Marina would be asked about him taking the rifle out of the apartment and whether she had seen him clean it or not, and this is what she said.
Mr. RANKIN. Do you recall your husband taking the rifle away from the apartment on Neely Street at any time?
Mrs. OSWALD. You must know that the rifle it isn't as if it was out in the open. He would hang a coat or something to mask its presence in the room. And sometimes when he walked out, when he went out in the evening I didn't know, because I didn't go into that room very often. I don't know whether he took it with him or not.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever see him clean the rifle?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. I said before I had never seen it before. But I think you understand. I want to help you, and that is why there is no reason for concealing anything. I will not be charged with anything.
First of all, she said she was NOT sure if he took it out, but remember she asked him as soon as he got home on the night of April 10th what he did with the rifle! If she really didn't know if it was gone or not how did she know to ask him this as we saw in CE-1403? Does this make any sense to you?
Secondly, what does she mean by I want to help you, and that there is NO reason to conceal anything and she will NOT be charged with anything? Is this an answer to the question? I don't think so. Her following answer is very dubious after this exchange.
Mr. GOPADZE. She says she was not sworn in before. But now inasmuch as she is sworn in, she is going to tell the truth.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you see him clean the rifle a number of times?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Could you help us by giving some estimate of the times as you remember it?
Mrs. OSWALD. About four times---about four or five times, I think.
Mr. RANKIN. Did your husband ever tell you why he was cleaning the--that is, that he had been using it and needed to be cleaned after use?
Mrs. OSWALD. No, I did not ask him, because I thought it was quite normal that when you have a rifle you must clean it from time to time.
What did they mean that NOW that she was sworn in she would tell the truth? Did that mean if she was NOT sworn in she would lie? Or was it the other WAY AROUND? She would aslo do an about face on him taking it from Neely St. too! She just said she did NOT know, but after this highly unusual exchange she would say this.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever observe your husband taking the rifle away from the apartment on Neely Street?
Mrs. OSWALD. Now, I think that he probably did sometimes, but I never did see it. You must understand that sometimes I would be in the kitchen and he would be in his room downstairs, and he would say bye-bye, I will be hack soon, and he may have taken it. He probably did. Perhaps he purely waited for an occasion when he could take it away without my seeing it.
IF you didn't see it and he kept the rifle hidden (per herself), how did she know he did take it out all of a sudden? Does any of this make any sense to you? It seems contrived and full of baloney to me. Again, NO cleaning supplies were ever found among LHO's possessions, so if he was cleaning his alleged rife, what was he using? She would also DENY the incident the deMohrenschildts mentioned BEFORE her curious exchange with the WC.
Mr. RANKIN. Did you ever show that rifle to the De Mohrenschildts?
Mrs. OSWALD. I know that De Mohrenschildts had said that the rifle had been shown to him, but I don't remember that.
Here is a great look at the year 1963 —CE 401 —and how all this fit by virtue of Mrs. Paine’s calendar. Can any WC defender explain this stuff?
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pages/WH_Vol17_0041b.jpg