Post by Rob Caprio on Oct 22, 2018 10:28:42 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
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As we saw earlier in this series Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was denied legal representation by the Dallas Police Department (DPD). He would also be put in unfair, and some say illegal, lineups to make him stand out and easy to recognize and identify for the witnesses who viewed them.
Keep in mind when you read this that LHO’s picture began being shown over television and in newspapers quite quickly so by the time many of the witnesses reached the DPD HQ to view the lineup they already had his image in their mind. Also, many of the lineups featured folks who did NOT look anything like LHO to make him stand out more. Let’s look at this issue more closely.
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In some of the lineups actual DPD cops were asked to stand in with him. One of these cops was Don Ables. Let’s see what he said about this practice.
Mr. ABLES - You were on duty on November 22, 1963, were you?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - In the afternoon? Did you take part in a showup?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - With Oswald?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - How did you happen to take part in the showup? Tell me who asked you to, or ordered you to?
Mr. ABLES - Well, my supervisor in the jail office asked me to.
Mr. BALL - What is his name?
Mr. ABLES - Sergeant Duncan.
Mr. BALL - What did he tell you?
Mr. ABLES - Told me that they needed a man for the showup and go out there.
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Mr. BALL - How were you dressed when you went in the showup room?
Mr. ABLES - I was wearing a white shirt and this sweater here [indicating].
Mr. BALL - You have a gray-knit sweater on?
Mr. ABLES - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And dark trousers?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Have a tie on?
Mr. ABLES - No.
This doesn’t sound like how LHO was dressed at all. A gray-knit sweater? A white shirt, NOT T-shirt?
Mr. BALL - Had you ever been in a showup before?
Mr. ABLES - No.
Mr. BALL - Had you ever heard of officers or employees of the Police Department being used in a showup before?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir; I have. I hadn't until I went to work for the police department.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever afterwards?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Tell me, it is your conclusion I know, but tell me briefly what you learned as to the practice of the police department of using jail employees or officers in showups? You can generalize. I am not holding you down as to where you learned it. Tell me what you learned about it?
Mr. ABLES - Well, only times that I have heard that--I have never seen a police officer or employee used in a showup but only times I have heard of them being used is when they need somebody in a hurry, or need somebody to do that. Well, to more or less look like they belong in a showup or something.
So he had ONLY heard of this practice, but had NEVER seen it used UNTIL LHO. How does someone “look like they belong” in the showup?
Mr. BALL - Somebody that looks like the prisoner who is in the showup?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Were you aware when you went in there that you would be asked certain questions?
Mr. ABLES - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - You were not? When you went in there where did you stand in the line?
Mr. ABLES - I was No. 4.
Mr. BALL - That would be facing the audience?
Mr. ABLES - Yes.
Remember the part about NOT being aware of being asked questions.
Mr. BALL - Your left, facing the audience. The detective there, did he ask you any questions?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What did he ask you?
Mr. ABLES - As I recall, he asked me where I was from and what my occupation was and where I went to high school.
Mr. BALL - And where what?
Mr. ABLES - Where I went to high school.
Mr. BALL - Did he ask your name?
Mr. ABLES - No, sir; not that I recall.
Mr. BALL - What did you answer?
Mr. ABLES - When he asked where I was from I told him Dallas. I don't recall what I told him when he asked my occupation.
Mr. BALL - Did you tell him you were a jail clerk?
Mr. ABLES - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - Gave him a fictitious occupation?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Ah, but LHO would NOT be able to give a fictitious occupation I’m sure. So when LHO would be asked what his name was, where he was from, and what his occupation was he would have to tell the TRUTH! Imagine as soon as he said “Lee Harvey Oswald, New Orleans, and I work in the Texas School Book Depository” what would happen! Bingo! We got our man!
Why were any questions being asked of the people in the showup when LHO was at a decided disadvantage since his mug and info was all over the news? Conveniently the detective who asked these questions was forgotten so we can’t ask him this ourselves!
Mr. BALL - Do you know the name of the detective that asked you the questions?
Mr. ABLES - No, sir; I don't.
Before any Warren Commission (WC) defenders jump to the claim LHO was NOT asked questions perhaps they should read this first.
Mr. BALL - Did Oswald say anything?
Mr. ABLES - Only time he said anything was when the detective asked him questions.
Mr. BALL - Did he answer the questions?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
So you can see Walt Brown wasn’t far off when he said in his book “Treachery In Dallas” that a BLIND MAN/WOMAN could have picked LHO out based on the answers to these questions.
Ables would participate in the second lineup that took place at about 6:30 p.m. and he would be dressed the same. The same people would be involved as well. Again, he did NOT remember who asked the questions.
Mr. BALL - Do you remember who asked you the questions?
Mr. ABLES - I don't remember his name. No, sir.
He would take part in a third lineup “about 7:55 or 8:00 p.m.”, but this time it would be him, LHO and two prisoners. He would say he did NOT think any questions were asked at this lineup. He would give his general description as follows:
Mr. BALL - Can you tell me your height?
Mr. ABLES - About 5'9".
Mr. BALL - What is your weight?
Mr. ABLES - Around 165 or something.
Mr. BALL - And your hair?
Mr. ABLES - Dark.
Mr. BALL - Eyes?
Mr. ABLES - Brown.
Mr. BALL - Complexion?
Mr. ABLES - Ruddy.
He was the same height as LHO, but weighed a good bit more. LHO had brown hair, NOT dark.
Another cop that would take part was named W.E. Perry. Here is what he had to say about this.
Mr. BALL. Did you take part in a showup?
Mr. PERRY. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. What time?
Mr. PERRY. Approximately 4:35 or----
Mr. BALL. First one?
Mr. PERRY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you take part in another showup?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What time?
Mr. PERRY. 6:30.
Mr. BALL. Take part in any other showups?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever taken part in a showup before?
Mr. PERRY. Not that I recall.
We see he had NEVER been asked to do this before. Why now? Who knows for sure but this comment by him made them GO OFF RECORD for awhile. When they came back they asked this.
Mr. BALL. Back on the record. Had you ever head of officers taking part in showups before in your department?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. But, you hadn't yourself?
Mr. PERRY. I hadn't myself; no, sir.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever seen a showup in which officers took part?
Mr. PERRY. Physically, down there?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. PERRY. Not that I recall, that has been an awful long time ago. I don't recall.
So we see Perry had never taken part in a lineup with cops or had seen it before. He was asked who asked him to do it.
Mr. BALL. You never have? Who talked to you and asked you to take part in the first showup?
Mr. PERRY. Captain Fritz.
Mr. BALL. Did he talk to you?
Mr. PERRY. No; he talked to somebody else in our bureau.
Mr. BALL. And they relayed the order to you?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir.
What is really odd about this was that Fritz was in charge of Robbery-Homicide and Perry was in VICE!
Mr. BALL. Now, do you use your--use showups in your business, in the vice squad?
Mr. PERRY. I don't think we do; huh-huh, no. Never heard of it done.
So why was Fritz ordering someone NOT in his division to do this when they had NEVER been asked/ordered to do it before? This is interesting too.
Mr. BALL. What did you do?
Mr. PERRY. We went on up to--Clark and myself went on up to the third floor of the homicide office.
Mr. BALL. Was Oswald there?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who else was there?
Mr. PERRY. Several different people. Captain Fritz, a lot of homicide detectives and Texas Rangers and several other people that I don't know who they were. I gather law enforcement agencies, but it was, the office was----
Mr. BALL. Anything said there?
Mr. PERRY. I don't recall.
Mr. BALL. Any conversation with Oswald?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. And before you went down to the showup, how did you dress?
Mr. PERRY. I pulled my coat off and took my tie off and unbuttoned my shirt and put another sports coat on.
Mr. BALL. What color?
Mr. PERRY. I believe it was a brown sports coat.
Mr. BALL. Then you went down to the showup?
Mr. PERRY. Went down to the showup.
Mr. BALL. Were you handcuffed?
Mr. PERRY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. To whom?
Mr. PERRY. To Oswald.
Mr. BALL. Which arm, or hand?
Mr. PERRY. My left hand to his right hand.
Sports coat? Did LHO have a sports coat on? I don’t think so why was he wearing one? Why was he handcuffed to LHO? Where did they expect him to go? What questions did they ask him?
Mr. BALL. Policeman ask you any questions? Detective ask you any questions?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir; my name and what have you.
Mr. BALL. Well, what do you mean, "what have you."?
Mr. PERRY. Well, occupation.
Mr. BALL. What else?
Mr. PERRY. I believe he asked me what kind of car I drove if I'm not mistaken.
Mr. BALL. And what answer did you give him?
Mr. PERRY. I gave him all fictitious answers. I don't recall what they were, but they weren't----
Mr. BALL. You didn't give him your true name?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Or true address?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Or the car you drove?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Ask you what your occupation was?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir; he did, but I don't recall what I said to him.
Mr. BALL. Did you tell him you were a police officer?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Do you imagine LHO could have done this? I don’t think so, thus, it can be said again his answers would have sunk him alone in terms of him being ID’d. “Lee Harvey Oswald, New Orleans, and I work at the TSBD where the president was shot.”
He would also take part in the second lineup around 6:30 p.m. and he would remember the detective asking questions then. Of course the man asking the questions the first time would be forgotten too.
Mr. BALL. Do you know who the detective was that asked the questions?
Mr. PERRY. Sims, I believe. It was Sims.
Mr. BALL. Do you think that was Sims? Do you know Sims?
Mr. PERRY. I do. It was Sims; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Sims was behind with you. He was not in the audience?
Mr. PERRY. That's right.
Mr. BALL. According to the record, did he ask questions from the stage?
Mr. PERRY. From the stage where we were; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where you were. Who asked them the first time? Do you know?
Mr. PERRY. I don't recall. I don't know.
Mr. BALL. But you remember Sims did the second one?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir.
He would be asked to give his general description for the record.
Mr. BALL. All right. Will you state your height, please?
Mr. PERRY. About 5'11".
Mr. BALL. What is your weight?
Mr. PERRY. About 150.
Mr. BALL. And your hair?
Mr. PERRY. Brown.
Mr. BALL. And your eyes?
Mr. PERRY. Blue.
Mr. BALL. Complexion?
Mr. PERRY. I guess medium, fair, I guess.
We see he was taller than LHO and weighed more than LHO. His eyes were blue and for LHO this is hard to say since so many documents state different eye colors for him. A third cop was present in the lineups with LHO, Ables and Perry. His name was Richard Clark.
Mr. BALL. On the 22d of November 1963, you took part in some showup of the police department, did you?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How many?
Mr. CLARK. Two.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember what time these showups were?
Mr. CLARK. They were in the late afternoon but I don't remember the exact time.
Mr. BALL. Well, let's take the first showup of which you were a part. That was in the afternoon of the 22d of November 1963, wasn't it?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who asked you to take part in that showup?
Mr. CLARK. Captain Fritz called down to our office and wanted a couple of men to come up and make a showup with Oswald.
So again it was Capt. Fritz who asked him to be involved.
Mr. BALL. And where did you go then?
Mr. CLARK. Went up to the third floor, to Captain Fritz' office.
Mr. BALL. Who went with you?
Mr. CLARK. My partner.
Mr. BALL. What is his name?
Mr. CLARK. W.E. Perry.
Mr. BALL. Who was in Captain Fritz' office when you got there?
Mr. CLARK. Everybody that was in there.
Mr. BALL. Were there a good many people in there?
Mr. CLARK. Bunch of people in there.
Mr. BALL. Was Oswald in there?
Mr. CLARK. Oswald was there.
Mr. BALL. Do you know the names of the other people?
Mr. CLARK. Homicide detectives, Texas Rangers, FBI. Everybody.
His partner Perry said a bunch of folks were there too including Texas Rangers. Imagine how intimidating this would be for the witnesses to see before they went to make an ID. Here is what he said about what he wore for the lineup.
Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. CLARK. We took off our coats, ties. I put on a little--I believe it was a red vest, went on down to the jail office.
Mr. BALL. Where did you get the vest?
Mr. CLARK. At homicide.
Mr. BALL. You didn't own a----
Mr. CLARK. No, sir; just hanging loose in there.
Mr. BALL. Did you have a white shirt on?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Cuff links, or----
Mr. CLARK. No, sir; I believe a short-sleeve shirt.
Mr. BALL. Short-sleeve shirt?
Mr. CLARK. Uh-huh.
Mr. BALL. Took off your tie?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Unbuttoned your top button on your shirt?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What kind of pants did you have on?
Mr. CLARK. Brown.
Mr. BALL. With belt?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Red vest? Why in the world would he wear a red vest? Did anyone ever describe the man they saw in the TSBD or at the Tippit murder scene wearing a red vest? I don’t think so.
We also run into trouble with this question.
Mr. BALL. Now, did the detective in this first showup ask you any questions?
Mr. CLARK. Did the detective ask us?
Mr. BALL. Yes, in the showup?
Mr. CLARK. No, sir; he didn't ask any questions.
Oh really? I thought Perry and Ables said he did. Why would Clark say he didn’t? This troubled the WC too as they quickly moved to fix it.
Mr. BALL. Now, back to the first showup, did the detective ask you any questions? Ask your name and address and occupation?
Mr. CLARK. Oh, in the showup?
Mr. BALL. In the showup.
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did he ask you?
Mr. CLARK. He asked me my name.
Mr. BALL. What did you tell him?
Mr. CLARK. I don't remember what I told him.
Mr. BALL. Did you give him your real name?
Mr. CLARK. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Fictitious name?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Ask you your occupation?
Mr. CLARK. Asked my occupation.
Mr. BALL. What did you tell him?
Mr. CLARK. I don't recall. All of them are fictitious.
Mr. BALL. Fictitious?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Again, it can’t be stressed enough, LHO would NOT have been allowed to make up “fictitious” info so his answers would make him stand out. He would also participate in the second lineup and wear the same outfit. Here is his general description.
Mr. BALL. What is your height?
Mr. CLARK. About 5'11".
Mr. BALL. What is your weight?
Mr. CLARK. About 177.
Mr. BALL. And your hair?
Mr. CLARK. Blond.
Mr. BALL. And your eyes?
Mr. CLARK. Blue.
Mr. BALL. Your complexion is fair?
Mr. CLARK. Fair.
He is taller than LHO, weighs a good bit more than him and has blond hair. Why was he picked for this lineup by Fritz?
He would say it was not unusual to have a cop in the lineup while admitting he had NEVER been asked to do it before.
Here are some examples of the lineups found in CE 1054 pages 1 and 2. Do these men look like LHO at all?
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The questions alone would have made LHO stand out and when you combine the all out media campaign that was already underway by the time of the first lineup you see LHO never had a chance. Witness Whaley said this about the lineup he went to.
Mr. BALL. They had him in line with men much younger?
Mr. WHALEY. With five others.
Mr. BALL. Men much younger?
Mr. WHALEY. Not much younger, but just young kids they might have got them in jail.
Mr. BALL. Did he look older than those other boys?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And he was talking, was he?
Mr. WHALEY. He showed no respect for the policemen, he told them what he thought about them. They knew what they were doing and they were trying to railroad him and he wanted his lawyer.
After all this the WC lawyer had the gall to ask this question.
Mr. BALL. Did that aid you in the identification of the man?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; it wouldn't have at all, except that I said anybody who wasn't sure could have picked out the right one just for that. It didn't aid me because I knew he was the right one as soon as I saw him.
Well IF this did NOT aid him I’m sure the questions about his name, where he was from and where he worked sure did! Especially when he had already seen him in the newspaper being pronounced guilty!
Mr. BALL. Were you the next day?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; they came and got me, sir, the next day after I told my superior when I saw in the paper his picture, I told my superiors that that had been my passenger that day at noon. They called up the police and they came up and got me.
Mr. BALL. When you saw in the newspaper the picture of the man?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You went to your superior and told him you thought he was your passenger?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
We also see the poor lineup tactic used in the testimony of Cecil McWatters whose bus the WC claimed LHO used to get away from Dealey Plaza (LHO supposedly took a bus HEADING BACK to DP as part of his getaway).
Mr. BALL - Did they take you down and show you a lineup?
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - You sat there with police officers and they brought men in there?
Mr. McWATTERS - They brought four men out. In other words, four men under the lights; in other words, they was all—
Mr. BALL - All the same age?
Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir; they were different ages, different sizes and different heights. And they asked me if I could identify any man in particular there, and I told them that I couldn't identify any man in particular, but there was one man there that was about the size of the man. Now, I was referring back, after they done showed me this transfer at that time and I knew which trip, that I went through town on at that time, in other words, on the Lakewood trip and just like I recalled, I only put out two transfers and I told them that there was one man in the lineup was about the size and the height and complexion of a man that got on my bus, but as far as positively identifying the man I could not do it.
Despite the claim that he did ID LHO has his passenger McWatters NEVER did any such thing.
Mr. BALL - Anyway, you were not able to identify any man in the lineup as the passenger?
Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.
I have covered many of the comments by many witnesses in other posts in this series and they show despite the rigged lineups LHO was still NOT ID’d as the man most witnesses saw.
Once again the claims of the WC are incorrect, therefore, their conclusion is sunk again.
media.gq.com/photos/5582895b1177d66d68d51fa0/master/w_640%2Cc_limit/blogs-the-feed-2013-11-22-lee-harvey-oswald-changing-the-world-jfk-blog.jpg
As we saw earlier in this series Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was denied legal representation by the Dallas Police Department (DPD). He would also be put in unfair, and some say illegal, lineups to make him stand out and easy to recognize and identify for the witnesses who viewed them.
Keep in mind when you read this that LHO’s picture began being shown over television and in newspapers quite quickly so by the time many of the witnesses reached the DPD HQ to view the lineup they already had his image in their mind. Also, many of the lineups featured folks who did NOT look anything like LHO to make him stand out more. Let’s look at this issue more closely.
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In some of the lineups actual DPD cops were asked to stand in with him. One of these cops was Don Ables. Let’s see what he said about this practice.
Mr. ABLES - You were on duty on November 22, 1963, were you?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - In the afternoon? Did you take part in a showup?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - With Oswald?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - How did you happen to take part in the showup? Tell me who asked you to, or ordered you to?
Mr. ABLES - Well, my supervisor in the jail office asked me to.
Mr. BALL - What is his name?
Mr. ABLES - Sergeant Duncan.
Mr. BALL - What did he tell you?
Mr. ABLES - Told me that they needed a man for the showup and go out there.
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Mr. BALL - How were you dressed when you went in the showup room?
Mr. ABLES - I was wearing a white shirt and this sweater here [indicating].
Mr. BALL - You have a gray-knit sweater on?
Mr. ABLES - Yes.
Mr. BALL - And dark trousers?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Have a tie on?
Mr. ABLES - No.
This doesn’t sound like how LHO was dressed at all. A gray-knit sweater? A white shirt, NOT T-shirt?
Mr. BALL - Had you ever been in a showup before?
Mr. ABLES - No.
Mr. BALL - Had you ever heard of officers or employees of the Police Department being used in a showup before?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir; I have. I hadn't until I went to work for the police department.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever afterwards?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Tell me, it is your conclusion I know, but tell me briefly what you learned as to the practice of the police department of using jail employees or officers in showups? You can generalize. I am not holding you down as to where you learned it. Tell me what you learned about it?
Mr. ABLES - Well, only times that I have heard that--I have never seen a police officer or employee used in a showup but only times I have heard of them being used is when they need somebody in a hurry, or need somebody to do that. Well, to more or less look like they belong in a showup or something.
So he had ONLY heard of this practice, but had NEVER seen it used UNTIL LHO. How does someone “look like they belong” in the showup?
Mr. BALL - Somebody that looks like the prisoner who is in the showup?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Were you aware when you went in there that you would be asked certain questions?
Mr. ABLES - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - You were not? When you went in there where did you stand in the line?
Mr. ABLES - I was No. 4.
Mr. BALL - That would be facing the audience?
Mr. ABLES - Yes.
Remember the part about NOT being aware of being asked questions.
Mr. BALL - Your left, facing the audience. The detective there, did he ask you any questions?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - What did he ask you?
Mr. ABLES - As I recall, he asked me where I was from and what my occupation was and where I went to high school.
Mr. BALL - And where what?
Mr. ABLES - Where I went to high school.
Mr. BALL - Did he ask your name?
Mr. ABLES - No, sir; not that I recall.
Mr. BALL - What did you answer?
Mr. ABLES - When he asked where I was from I told him Dallas. I don't recall what I told him when he asked my occupation.
Mr. BALL - Did you tell him you were a jail clerk?
Mr. ABLES - No, sir.
Mr. BALL - Gave him a fictitious occupation?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
Ah, but LHO would NOT be able to give a fictitious occupation I’m sure. So when LHO would be asked what his name was, where he was from, and what his occupation was he would have to tell the TRUTH! Imagine as soon as he said “Lee Harvey Oswald, New Orleans, and I work in the Texas School Book Depository” what would happen! Bingo! We got our man!
Why were any questions being asked of the people in the showup when LHO was at a decided disadvantage since his mug and info was all over the news? Conveniently the detective who asked these questions was forgotten so we can’t ask him this ourselves!
Mr. BALL - Do you know the name of the detective that asked you the questions?
Mr. ABLES - No, sir; I don't.
Before any Warren Commission (WC) defenders jump to the claim LHO was NOT asked questions perhaps they should read this first.
Mr. BALL - Did Oswald say anything?
Mr. ABLES - Only time he said anything was when the detective asked him questions.
Mr. BALL - Did he answer the questions?
Mr. ABLES - Yes, sir.
So you can see Walt Brown wasn’t far off when he said in his book “Treachery In Dallas” that a BLIND MAN/WOMAN could have picked LHO out based on the answers to these questions.
Ables would participate in the second lineup that took place at about 6:30 p.m. and he would be dressed the same. The same people would be involved as well. Again, he did NOT remember who asked the questions.
Mr. BALL - Do you remember who asked you the questions?
Mr. ABLES - I don't remember his name. No, sir.
He would take part in a third lineup “about 7:55 or 8:00 p.m.”, but this time it would be him, LHO and two prisoners. He would say he did NOT think any questions were asked at this lineup. He would give his general description as follows:
Mr. BALL - Can you tell me your height?
Mr. ABLES - About 5'9".
Mr. BALL - What is your weight?
Mr. ABLES - Around 165 or something.
Mr. BALL - And your hair?
Mr. ABLES - Dark.
Mr. BALL - Eyes?
Mr. ABLES - Brown.
Mr. BALL - Complexion?
Mr. ABLES - Ruddy.
He was the same height as LHO, but weighed a good bit more. LHO had brown hair, NOT dark.
Another cop that would take part was named W.E. Perry. Here is what he had to say about this.
Mr. BALL. Did you take part in a showup?
Mr. PERRY. Yes; I did.
Mr. BALL. What time?
Mr. PERRY. Approximately 4:35 or----
Mr. BALL. First one?
Mr. PERRY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Did you take part in another showup?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What time?
Mr. PERRY. 6:30.
Mr. BALL. Take part in any other showups?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever taken part in a showup before?
Mr. PERRY. Not that I recall.
We see he had NEVER been asked to do this before. Why now? Who knows for sure but this comment by him made them GO OFF RECORD for awhile. When they came back they asked this.
Mr. BALL. Back on the record. Had you ever head of officers taking part in showups before in your department?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. But, you hadn't yourself?
Mr. PERRY. I hadn't myself; no, sir.
Mr. BALL. Had you ever seen a showup in which officers took part?
Mr. PERRY. Physically, down there?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. PERRY. Not that I recall, that has been an awful long time ago. I don't recall.
So we see Perry had never taken part in a lineup with cops or had seen it before. He was asked who asked him to do it.
Mr. BALL. You never have? Who talked to you and asked you to take part in the first showup?
Mr. PERRY. Captain Fritz.
Mr. BALL. Did he talk to you?
Mr. PERRY. No; he talked to somebody else in our bureau.
Mr. BALL. And they relayed the order to you?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir.
What is really odd about this was that Fritz was in charge of Robbery-Homicide and Perry was in VICE!
Mr. BALL. Now, do you use your--use showups in your business, in the vice squad?
Mr. PERRY. I don't think we do; huh-huh, no. Never heard of it done.
So why was Fritz ordering someone NOT in his division to do this when they had NEVER been asked/ordered to do it before? This is interesting too.
Mr. BALL. What did you do?
Mr. PERRY. We went on up to--Clark and myself went on up to the third floor of the homicide office.
Mr. BALL. Was Oswald there?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who else was there?
Mr. PERRY. Several different people. Captain Fritz, a lot of homicide detectives and Texas Rangers and several other people that I don't know who they were. I gather law enforcement agencies, but it was, the office was----
Mr. BALL. Anything said there?
Mr. PERRY. I don't recall.
Mr. BALL. Any conversation with Oswald?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. And before you went down to the showup, how did you dress?
Mr. PERRY. I pulled my coat off and took my tie off and unbuttoned my shirt and put another sports coat on.
Mr. BALL. What color?
Mr. PERRY. I believe it was a brown sports coat.
Mr. BALL. Then you went down to the showup?
Mr. PERRY. Went down to the showup.
Mr. BALL. Were you handcuffed?
Mr. PERRY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. To whom?
Mr. PERRY. To Oswald.
Mr. BALL. Which arm, or hand?
Mr. PERRY. My left hand to his right hand.
Sports coat? Did LHO have a sports coat on? I don’t think so why was he wearing one? Why was he handcuffed to LHO? Where did they expect him to go? What questions did they ask him?
Mr. BALL. Policeman ask you any questions? Detective ask you any questions?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir; my name and what have you.
Mr. BALL. Well, what do you mean, "what have you."?
Mr. PERRY. Well, occupation.
Mr. BALL. What else?
Mr. PERRY. I believe he asked me what kind of car I drove if I'm not mistaken.
Mr. BALL. And what answer did you give him?
Mr. PERRY. I gave him all fictitious answers. I don't recall what they were, but they weren't----
Mr. BALL. You didn't give him your true name?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Or true address?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Or the car you drove?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Ask you what your occupation was?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir; he did, but I don't recall what I said to him.
Mr. BALL. Did you tell him you were a police officer?
Mr. PERRY. No, sir.
Do you imagine LHO could have done this? I don’t think so, thus, it can be said again his answers would have sunk him alone in terms of him being ID’d. “Lee Harvey Oswald, New Orleans, and I work at the TSBD where the president was shot.”
He would also take part in the second lineup around 6:30 p.m. and he would remember the detective asking questions then. Of course the man asking the questions the first time would be forgotten too.
Mr. BALL. Do you know who the detective was that asked the questions?
Mr. PERRY. Sims, I believe. It was Sims.
Mr. BALL. Do you think that was Sims? Do you know Sims?
Mr. PERRY. I do. It was Sims; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Sims was behind with you. He was not in the audience?
Mr. PERRY. That's right.
Mr. BALL. According to the record, did he ask questions from the stage?
Mr. PERRY. From the stage where we were; yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where you were. Who asked them the first time? Do you know?
Mr. PERRY. I don't recall. I don't know.
Mr. BALL. But you remember Sims did the second one?
Mr. PERRY. Yes, sir.
He would be asked to give his general description for the record.
Mr. BALL. All right. Will you state your height, please?
Mr. PERRY. About 5'11".
Mr. BALL. What is your weight?
Mr. PERRY. About 150.
Mr. BALL. And your hair?
Mr. PERRY. Brown.
Mr. BALL. And your eyes?
Mr. PERRY. Blue.
Mr. BALL. Complexion?
Mr. PERRY. I guess medium, fair, I guess.
We see he was taller than LHO and weighed more than LHO. His eyes were blue and for LHO this is hard to say since so many documents state different eye colors for him. A third cop was present in the lineups with LHO, Ables and Perry. His name was Richard Clark.
Mr. BALL. On the 22d of November 1963, you took part in some showup of the police department, did you?
Mr. CLARK. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How many?
Mr. CLARK. Two.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember what time these showups were?
Mr. CLARK. They were in the late afternoon but I don't remember the exact time.
Mr. BALL. Well, let's take the first showup of which you were a part. That was in the afternoon of the 22d of November 1963, wasn't it?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Who asked you to take part in that showup?
Mr. CLARK. Captain Fritz called down to our office and wanted a couple of men to come up and make a showup with Oswald.
So again it was Capt. Fritz who asked him to be involved.
Mr. BALL. And where did you go then?
Mr. CLARK. Went up to the third floor, to Captain Fritz' office.
Mr. BALL. Who went with you?
Mr. CLARK. My partner.
Mr. BALL. What is his name?
Mr. CLARK. W.E. Perry.
Mr. BALL. Who was in Captain Fritz' office when you got there?
Mr. CLARK. Everybody that was in there.
Mr. BALL. Were there a good many people in there?
Mr. CLARK. Bunch of people in there.
Mr. BALL. Was Oswald in there?
Mr. CLARK. Oswald was there.
Mr. BALL. Do you know the names of the other people?
Mr. CLARK. Homicide detectives, Texas Rangers, FBI. Everybody.
His partner Perry said a bunch of folks were there too including Texas Rangers. Imagine how intimidating this would be for the witnesses to see before they went to make an ID. Here is what he said about what he wore for the lineup.
Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?
Mr. CLARK. We took off our coats, ties. I put on a little--I believe it was a red vest, went on down to the jail office.
Mr. BALL. Where did you get the vest?
Mr. CLARK. At homicide.
Mr. BALL. You didn't own a----
Mr. CLARK. No, sir; just hanging loose in there.
Mr. BALL. Did you have a white shirt on?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Cuff links, or----
Mr. CLARK. No, sir; I believe a short-sleeve shirt.
Mr. BALL. Short-sleeve shirt?
Mr. CLARK. Uh-huh.
Mr. BALL. Took off your tie?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Unbuttoned your top button on your shirt?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What kind of pants did you have on?
Mr. CLARK. Brown.
Mr. BALL. With belt?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Red vest? Why in the world would he wear a red vest? Did anyone ever describe the man they saw in the TSBD or at the Tippit murder scene wearing a red vest? I don’t think so.
We also run into trouble with this question.
Mr. BALL. Now, did the detective in this first showup ask you any questions?
Mr. CLARK. Did the detective ask us?
Mr. BALL. Yes, in the showup?
Mr. CLARK. No, sir; he didn't ask any questions.
Oh really? I thought Perry and Ables said he did. Why would Clark say he didn’t? This troubled the WC too as they quickly moved to fix it.
Mr. BALL. Now, back to the first showup, did the detective ask you any questions? Ask your name and address and occupation?
Mr. CLARK. Oh, in the showup?
Mr. BALL. In the showup.
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did he ask you?
Mr. CLARK. He asked me my name.
Mr. BALL. What did you tell him?
Mr. CLARK. I don't remember what I told him.
Mr. BALL. Did you give him your real name?
Mr. CLARK. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Fictitious name?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Ask you your occupation?
Mr. CLARK. Asked my occupation.
Mr. BALL. What did you tell him?
Mr. CLARK. I don't recall. All of them are fictitious.
Mr. BALL. Fictitious?
Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir.
Again, it can’t be stressed enough, LHO would NOT have been allowed to make up “fictitious” info so his answers would make him stand out. He would also participate in the second lineup and wear the same outfit. Here is his general description.
Mr. BALL. What is your height?
Mr. CLARK. About 5'11".
Mr. BALL. What is your weight?
Mr. CLARK. About 177.
Mr. BALL. And your hair?
Mr. CLARK. Blond.
Mr. BALL. And your eyes?
Mr. CLARK. Blue.
Mr. BALL. Your complexion is fair?
Mr. CLARK. Fair.
He is taller than LHO, weighs a good bit more than him and has blond hair. Why was he picked for this lineup by Fritz?
He would say it was not unusual to have a cop in the lineup while admitting he had NEVER been asked to do it before.
Here are some examples of the lineups found in CE 1054 pages 1 and 2. Do these men look like LHO at all?
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0016a.jpg
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0016b.jpg
The questions alone would have made LHO stand out and when you combine the all out media campaign that was already underway by the time of the first lineup you see LHO never had a chance. Witness Whaley said this about the lineup he went to.
Mr. BALL. They had him in line with men much younger?
Mr. WHALEY. With five others.
Mr. BALL. Men much younger?
Mr. WHALEY. Not much younger, but just young kids they might have got them in jail.
Mr. BALL. Did he look older than those other boys?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And he was talking, was he?
Mr. WHALEY. He showed no respect for the policemen, he told them what he thought about them. They knew what they were doing and they were trying to railroad him and he wanted his lawyer.
After all this the WC lawyer had the gall to ask this question.
Mr. BALL. Did that aid you in the identification of the man?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; it wouldn't have at all, except that I said anybody who wasn't sure could have picked out the right one just for that. It didn't aid me because I knew he was the right one as soon as I saw him.
Well IF this did NOT aid him I’m sure the questions about his name, where he was from and where he worked sure did! Especially when he had already seen him in the newspaper being pronounced guilty!
Mr. BALL. Were you the next day?
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; they came and got me, sir, the next day after I told my superior when I saw in the paper his picture, I told my superiors that that had been my passenger that day at noon. They called up the police and they came up and got me.
Mr. BALL. When you saw in the newspaper the picture of the man?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You went to your superior and told him you thought he was your passenger?
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
We also see the poor lineup tactic used in the testimony of Cecil McWatters whose bus the WC claimed LHO used to get away from Dealey Plaza (LHO supposedly took a bus HEADING BACK to DP as part of his getaway).
Mr. BALL - Did they take you down and show you a lineup?
Mr. McWATTERS - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - You sat there with police officers and they brought men in there?
Mr. McWATTERS - They brought four men out. In other words, four men under the lights; in other words, they was all—
Mr. BALL - All the same age?
Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir; they were different ages, different sizes and different heights. And they asked me if I could identify any man in particular there, and I told them that I couldn't identify any man in particular, but there was one man there that was about the size of the man. Now, I was referring back, after they done showed me this transfer at that time and I knew which trip, that I went through town on at that time, in other words, on the Lakewood trip and just like I recalled, I only put out two transfers and I told them that there was one man in the lineup was about the size and the height and complexion of a man that got on my bus, but as far as positively identifying the man I could not do it.
Despite the claim that he did ID LHO has his passenger McWatters NEVER did any such thing.
Mr. BALL - Anyway, you were not able to identify any man in the lineup as the passenger?
Mr. McWATTERS - No, sir.
I have covered many of the comments by many witnesses in other posts in this series and they show despite the rigged lineups LHO was still NOT ID’d as the man most witnesses saw.
Once again the claims of the WC are incorrect, therefore, their conclusion is sunk again.