Post by Rob Caprio on Oct 24, 2018 17:26:22 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
3.bp.blogspot.com/-brmwphen1yY/UcL7VbfZOeI/AAAAAAAAABE/JU9T3rw2qp0/s400/kollegi+po+tsehu.jpg
As we saw previously in this series the claim was made that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) did NOT revoke his citizenship (and on the surface this is true, but the correct statement is he was NOT allowed to). Well, if that is true then we have some very odd things going on in the twenty-six volumes.
Note: While this topic is NOT as "sexy" as some others, it is an important one in showing how the groundwork was laid for LHO even back in 1959. What was going to be his role IF President John F. Kennedy (JFK) had NOT been killed? Who knows, but this topic, and others, show he was going to be used for something eventually IMO.
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We have already looked at the testimony of Frances Knight (Passport Chairperson) regarding this issue, but the Warren Commission (WC) also called Abram Chayes who was a legal advisor to the State Department. Here is an exchange on this topic (again, keep in mind, the issue of a passport being issued is very relevant as IF LHO did NOT get issued one he could NOT shoot JFK (if you believe the WC’s conclusion)).
Representative Ford. Would you in the June determination have had the files from the Department of State which showed that on October 31 Oswald walked into the American Embassy.
Mr. Chayes. Oh, yes.
Representative Ford. And said "I, Lee Harvey Oswald, do hereby request that my present citizenship in the United States of America be revoked."
Mr. Chayes. Oh, yes; the entire file.
Representative Ford. And would it also have had the one of November 3d where he said "I, Lee Harvey Oswald, do hereby request that my present United States citizenship be revoked"?
Mr. Chayes. Yes; it would have had all of that.
Representative Ford. It would have had all of that?
Mr. Chayes. Yes.
Representative Ford. And it would have had the----
Mr. Chayes. But it would also have had the determination that he had to expatriate himself and that he was an American citizen. I, myself, doubt that an abortive attempt at expatriation would, certainly without more, warrant the denial of a passport to a person who was in fact a citizen.
An “abortive attempt” he says? Does this sound like an abortive attempt? Go to CE 920 and read this.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/pages/WH_Vol18_0066b.jpg
In this document you will see it says LHO requested that his US citizenship be REVOKED and came to the consulate office of the US Embassy to SIGN THE FORMAL PAPERS but was REFUSED by the Embassy. This clearly shows LHO did NOT “expatriate” himself ONLY because the US government wouldn’t allow him to!
He even is writing a PROTEST to the US government and mentions that he has “an application, requesting that I be considered for citizenship in the Soviet Union, is now pending before the Supreme Soviet of the U.S.S.R.” Does that sound like someone who does NOT want to get rid of their US citizenship and expatriate himself? It sure does to me. OR, more to the point, he is an INTELLIGENCE operative running a scam for the Soviet listeners.
If we go to CE 919 and read that it seems simple to do.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/pages/WH_Vol18_0066a.jpg
It says, “As you were informed at the time of your visit to the Embassy on October 31, 1959, it is a principal of the American Government that the right of expatriation is a natural AND INHERENT RIGHT of any person and that the manner prescribed by law for renunciation of American citizenship is the execution of an oath before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in the established form.” (emphasis added)
So, it seems it only took an oath at the Embassy before a diplomatic or consular officer to renounce one’s citizenship, thus, the question has to be asked, why was LHO trying to fill out paperwork to do this? He even says in his letter that he was refused his LEGAL RIGHT. Why? Who did NOT want LHO to renounce his citizenship? Or was he play acting again? Either scenario shows there were bigger plans for LHO even then and his return to the US was necessary.
What did Mr. Chayes mean by this comment?
Mr. Dulles. Is it not correct though that when you were trying to get the visa for Mrs. Oswald, you made a very strong case that his continued residence in the Soviet Union was harmful to the foreign policy of the United States, or words to that effect?
Mr. Chayes. Well, we were very anxious to get him back and I think that is right. In a sense we had him on our hands then. We were in discussion with him. He was in the Embassy, and he was very directly our responsibility, so that anything that he did or that went wrong during that period, he was under our protection, and we were necessarily involved.
If he went back as a tourist and got into some trouble of some kind or another, we would then have the choice I think to get involved, and we might or might not. The situation it seems to me is different when a fellow is already in trouble, and you have taken steps to put the U.S. Embassy in the picture. Then you have a special responsibility if anything goes off the track and you want to take whatever steps you can to shorten the time in which you are bearing that special responsibility.
Get him back from what? Was he saying they were glad to have him back from Russia? IF so, why? He was a disaffected LONER supposedly! Also note how his staying in the USSR was "harmful to diplomatic relations" between our countries. The SAME thing would be said about looking into a CONSPIRACY by LBJ's aide to Henry Wade! It seems this was the code term then as "National Security" is now.
I think that is what he saying because this was the NEXT question.
Representative Ford. I think, Mr. Chayes, however, you are saying or you are inferring that it was a clear-cut decision back when it was determined that he had not given up his United States citizenship.
Mr. Chayes. It was in July of 1961, when his passport was renewed. We couldn't have had a passport renewal if there weren't such a determination, and in fact there was such a determination.
Representative Ford. There was such a determination?
Mr. Chayes. Yes, sir.
Of course he had NOT given up his US citizenship since it was just shown he was NOT ALLOWED TO! This kept the door open for his return to the US. Why would the US want a “sociopath” (the WC’s word) back in the US and then NOT debrief him supposedly?
Again, all of this leads one to believe LHO was on a mission and not really trying to defect as claimed. ONLY the CIA was running a mission like this, and this shows us LHO was anything but a “loner” as claimed by the WC, thus, their conclusion is sunk again.
3.bp.blogspot.com/-brmwphen1yY/UcL7VbfZOeI/AAAAAAAAABE/JU9T3rw2qp0/s400/kollegi+po+tsehu.jpg
As we saw previously in this series the claim was made that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) did NOT revoke his citizenship (and on the surface this is true, but the correct statement is he was NOT allowed to). Well, if that is true then we have some very odd things going on in the twenty-six volumes.
Note: While this topic is NOT as "sexy" as some others, it is an important one in showing how the groundwork was laid for LHO even back in 1959. What was going to be his role IF President John F. Kennedy (JFK) had NOT been killed? Who knows, but this topic, and others, show he was going to be used for something eventually IMO.
***********************************************
We have already looked at the testimony of Frances Knight (Passport Chairperson) regarding this issue, but the Warren Commission (WC) also called Abram Chayes who was a legal advisor to the State Department. Here is an exchange on this topic (again, keep in mind, the issue of a passport being issued is very relevant as IF LHO did NOT get issued one he could NOT shoot JFK (if you believe the WC’s conclusion)).
Representative Ford. Would you in the June determination have had the files from the Department of State which showed that on October 31 Oswald walked into the American Embassy.
Mr. Chayes. Oh, yes.
Representative Ford. And said "I, Lee Harvey Oswald, do hereby request that my present citizenship in the United States of America be revoked."
Mr. Chayes. Oh, yes; the entire file.
Representative Ford. And would it also have had the one of November 3d where he said "I, Lee Harvey Oswald, do hereby request that my present United States citizenship be revoked"?
Mr. Chayes. Yes; it would have had all of that.
Representative Ford. It would have had all of that?
Mr. Chayes. Yes.
Representative Ford. And it would have had the----
Mr. Chayes. But it would also have had the determination that he had to expatriate himself and that he was an American citizen. I, myself, doubt that an abortive attempt at expatriation would, certainly without more, warrant the denial of a passport to a person who was in fact a citizen.
An “abortive attempt” he says? Does this sound like an abortive attempt? Go to CE 920 and read this.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/pages/WH_Vol18_0066b.jpg
In this document you will see it says LHO requested that his US citizenship be REVOKED and came to the consulate office of the US Embassy to SIGN THE FORMAL PAPERS but was REFUSED by the Embassy. This clearly shows LHO did NOT “expatriate” himself ONLY because the US government wouldn’t allow him to!
He even is writing a PROTEST to the US government and mentions that he has “an application, requesting that I be considered for citizenship in the Soviet Union, is now pending before the Supreme Soviet of the U.S.S.R.” Does that sound like someone who does NOT want to get rid of their US citizenship and expatriate himself? It sure does to me. OR, more to the point, he is an INTELLIGENCE operative running a scam for the Soviet listeners.
If we go to CE 919 and read that it seems simple to do.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh18/pages/WH_Vol18_0066a.jpg
It says, “As you were informed at the time of your visit to the Embassy on October 31, 1959, it is a principal of the American Government that the right of expatriation is a natural AND INHERENT RIGHT of any person and that the manner prescribed by law for renunciation of American citizenship is the execution of an oath before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in the established form.” (emphasis added)
So, it seems it only took an oath at the Embassy before a diplomatic or consular officer to renounce one’s citizenship, thus, the question has to be asked, why was LHO trying to fill out paperwork to do this? He even says in his letter that he was refused his LEGAL RIGHT. Why? Who did NOT want LHO to renounce his citizenship? Or was he play acting again? Either scenario shows there were bigger plans for LHO even then and his return to the US was necessary.
What did Mr. Chayes mean by this comment?
Mr. Dulles. Is it not correct though that when you were trying to get the visa for Mrs. Oswald, you made a very strong case that his continued residence in the Soviet Union was harmful to the foreign policy of the United States, or words to that effect?
Mr. Chayes. Well, we were very anxious to get him back and I think that is right. In a sense we had him on our hands then. We were in discussion with him. He was in the Embassy, and he was very directly our responsibility, so that anything that he did or that went wrong during that period, he was under our protection, and we were necessarily involved.
If he went back as a tourist and got into some trouble of some kind or another, we would then have the choice I think to get involved, and we might or might not. The situation it seems to me is different when a fellow is already in trouble, and you have taken steps to put the U.S. Embassy in the picture. Then you have a special responsibility if anything goes off the track and you want to take whatever steps you can to shorten the time in which you are bearing that special responsibility.
Get him back from what? Was he saying they were glad to have him back from Russia? IF so, why? He was a disaffected LONER supposedly! Also note how his staying in the USSR was "harmful to diplomatic relations" between our countries. The SAME thing would be said about looking into a CONSPIRACY by LBJ's aide to Henry Wade! It seems this was the code term then as "National Security" is now.
I think that is what he saying because this was the NEXT question.
Representative Ford. I think, Mr. Chayes, however, you are saying or you are inferring that it was a clear-cut decision back when it was determined that he had not given up his United States citizenship.
Mr. Chayes. It was in July of 1961, when his passport was renewed. We couldn't have had a passport renewal if there weren't such a determination, and in fact there was such a determination.
Representative Ford. There was such a determination?
Mr. Chayes. Yes, sir.
Of course he had NOT given up his US citizenship since it was just shown he was NOT ALLOWED TO! This kept the door open for his return to the US. Why would the US want a “sociopath” (the WC’s word) back in the US and then NOT debrief him supposedly?
Again, all of this leads one to believe LHO was on a mission and not really trying to defect as claimed. ONLY the CIA was running a mission like this, and this shows us LHO was anything but a “loner” as claimed by the WC, thus, their conclusion is sunk again.