Post by Rob Caprio on Nov 10, 2019 20:40:43 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
static01.nyt.com/images/2011/11/13/books/review/13MORRIS/13MORRIS-jumbo.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot and killed President John F. Kennedy (JFK) all by himself on November 22, 1963. They also claimed he shot and killed Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit (JDT) on the same day before he was arrested for officially “acting suspicious” and “not paying for a movie ticket”.
In this post we will continue to look at the statements LHO allegedly made during his interrogations by the Dallas Police Department (DPD) on Saturday, November 23, 1963.
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At 10:25 a.m. on Saturday, November 23, 1963, LHO was taken from his cell for another interrogation session with Captain Will Fritz. Also present were FBI Agent Jim Bookhout, Secret Service (SS) Agent Forrest Sorrels, United States Marshall Robert Nash and homicide detectives.
This interview began with the issue of LHO leaving the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD). He claimed to have taken a bus and gotten a transfer before entering a cab per this report. I have covered the bus ride and transfer in-depth before in this series so I won’t go through all that again, but suffice it to say, things are NOT that simple and do NOT add up if you rely on the claims of the WC alone. I have also covered the cab issue in-depth too so I will skip that as well.
LHO then denied ever saying he was going home for curtain rods as claimed by Wesley Frazier. The report then mentions a key point.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0314b.gif
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0315a.gif
During this conversation he told me he reached his home by cab and changed his SHIRT and trousers going to the show. When asked what he did with his clothing he took off when he got home, he said he put them in the dirty clothes. (WCR, XI, pp. 604-605; pp. 6-7 in original) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0314b.htm
Quote off
Notice how he said he changed his shirt and trousers. This is important as the WC would claim a piece of evidence tying LHO to the alleged murder weapon would be shirt fibers found on the rifle’s butt plate, but those fibers matched the shirt LHO was WEARING AT THE TIME HE WAS ARRESTED! If he changed shirts, and there is some evidence showing he did, then how could this happen? Also, why would he “lie” and claim he did when he would NOT know about the shirt fiber issue since the DPD was NOT sharing information with him? IOWs, there would be NO purpose for LHO to lie about something this simple if he did NOT do it.
LHO was then asked about where he was at the time the President was shot and he said he was eating lunch. He then gave two descriptions of employees who were in there when he was. He said one was called “junior” and the other one was a short man and he did not know his name. As I have asked before (and never really gotten an answer to), how would LHO know who was in there IF he was NOT there?
There was a “junior” eating lunch in there around the time LHO said he was eating. His name was James “Junior” Jarman.
Mr. BALL - State your name please?
Mr. JARMAN - James Jarman, Junior.
Mr. BALL - What do they call you, Junior?
Mr. JARMAN - Junior.
Jarman would say he noticed LHO eating in the Domino room quite often too.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever see him when he was eating his lunch?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Where?
Mr. JARMAN - Sometimes in the, as we called it, domino room, and again over coffee table where they make coffee.
Mr. BALL - Is that the first floor?
Mr. JARMAN - That is the first floor.
Thus, it was NOT uncommon for LHO to eat in the first floor lunchroom as he said he did on November 22, 1963. The “short man” whose name LHO did NOT know was Harold Norman and he confirmed he ate his lunch in the Domino room that day before the WC.
Mr. BALL. After you washed up, what did you do?
Mr. NORMAN. Well, I got my lunch, I ate my lunch in the domino room.
Mr. BALL. Who was with you at that time?
Mr. NORMAN. I can't remember who ate in the lunchroom, I mean the domino room, with me.
Mr. BALL. Did some other employees eat there?
Mr. NORMAN. I think there was someone else in there because we usually played dominoes in there but that particular day we didn't play that morning.
Notice he says he thinks “someone else was in there” as if it was a large room. IT wasn’t. In his affidavit he said he knew LHO somewhat so this should NOT be hard to remember IF LHO was in the lunchroom as he said he was.
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I was acquainted with Lee Oswald during the time that he was employed at this company, but I never did get to know him well. I have spoken to him briefly to say "Hello" or in connection with my work, but I never carried on any conversations with him. He did not mix with the employees and did not appear to want to make friends with me or any of the others. I never saw him at any time other than in the building at work.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/norman_1.htm
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Why was Norman unable to say if it was LHO or not? Also, why did Norman deny eating with Jarman as LHO said? He said this about where Jarman was while he was eating lunch.
Mr. BALL. Where was James Jarman when you got together with him?
Mr. NORMAN. He was somewhere in the vicinity of the telephone, I believe. I am not for sure.
Norman made it sound like they did NOT eat together. He then says they went to the fifth floor together after he finished eating.
Mr. BALL. After you ate your lunch, what did you do?
Mr. NORMAN. I got with James Jarman, he and I got together on the first floor…Well, we stayed there I believe until we got the news that the motorcade was coming down, let's see, is that Commerce, no Main, because Commerce- we went beck in the building, James Jarman and I.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go when you went in the building?
Mr. NORMAN. The west elevator. And went to the fifth floor.
So here he says he and Jarman went to the fifth floor, but in his affidavit he made it sound like Williams was with them when he was NOT.
Quote on
About 12:15 P.M. on this same date, after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building to watch the parade of the President pass the building. Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also worked at this building went with me.
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Bonnie Ray Williams (BRW) clearly said he left the sixth floor after he finished his lunch and met Jarman and Norman on the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go when you left there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I went down to the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL. You took the elevator from the sixth floor to the fifth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where did you intend to go when you left the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I intended to stop on the fifth floor, and if there wasn't anyone there, I intended to get out of the building, go outside.
Mr. BALL. Did you find anybody there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. As I remember, when I was walking up, I think Harold Norman and James Jarman as I remember, they was down facing the Elm Street on the fifth floor, as I remember.
You may be thinking this is a small issue of no importance, but it isn’t. Inconsistencies in testimony are very important and it can show a witness is either NOT recalling what happened properly or misrepresenting what did happen for any number of reasons. Either way, this calls into question their reliability on the issue(s) you are asking them about. It is clear, Norman went to the fifth with Jarman and BRW met them there. When we add this gaff by Norman to his not remembering if the person was LHO or not in the lunchroom and him NOT remembering eating with Jarman we can start to have some doubts about his reliability.
One other thing of importance in this issue is that LHO said he brought his lunch with him on November 22, 1963, and this has been called a lie by many WC defenders, but according to Jarman LHO brought his lunch most of the time he worked at the TSBD.
Mr. BALL - Did you notice whether Oswald brought his lunch most of the time or bought his lunch most of the time?
Mr. JARMAN - Most of the time he brought his lunch.
Mr. BALL - Most of the time he brought his lunch?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
The odd thing would be for LHO NOT to bring his lunch as claimed by the WC on November 22, 1963, but of course they never supported this or showed it to be true, thus, we have to take LHO’s word for it at this point since it is corroborated by Jarman's testimony.
The WC insinuated they caught him in a lie when he said his brother Robert Oswald lived in “Ft. Worth” because he actually lived in Denton, Texas! Wow. LHO denied ever being a member in the Communist Party and had to be telling the truth since the WC, DPD and FBI NEVER produced any evidence showing he was a member of that organization.
The next statement by LHO makes us wonder even more about the alleged revolver order from Seaport Traders.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0315b.gif
He refused to answer questions about the pistol. He did tell me, however, that he had bought it SEVERAL MONTHS BEFORE in Fort Worth, Texas. (Ibid., p. 606; p. 8 in original) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0315b.htm
Quote off
How could LHO purchase a revolver in Forth Worth, Texas, and leave no trail of it? Why was this NOT investigated? Oh, that is right, because he supposedly ordered the revolver form Seaport Traders in January 1963. Again, the WC stuck to its preconceived outcome and avoided any evidence that led in another direction.
Next we see a bunch of nonsense about Fritz telling him he had a right to an attorney and didn’t have to answer any questions if he didn’t want to without one. Keep in mind, during his nearly 48 hours in custody he was never given any legal representation at all. Who really thinks LHO said all of this when he didn’t have to given the quiet nature of the man? I sure don’t. The lack of recordings and transcripts sure calls into question the legitimacy of all of these supposed statements for me. Supposedly he wanted to be interrogated by a ton of people with NO lawyer IF it couldn’t be John Abt. Sure.
At 11:33 a.m. LHO was taken back to his cell, but at 12: 35 p.m. he was brought back for more questioning by SS Inspector Thomas Kelley, Frtiz and some officers. After basic questioning about the places he had lived in the Dallas area and where he kept his belongings he was put back into his cell at 1:10 p.m.
At 6:00 p.m. LHO would be brought back in for more questioning with Fritz, FBI Agent Jim Bookhout, SS Inspector Kelley and Homicide detectives. LHO was shown one of the Backyard Photographs (BYPs) at this point. As we have seen previously in this series LHO denied this was of him as he said his head had been superimposed onto someone else’s body. He also denied that the photograph had ever been in his possession. He would claim it was the DPD who had made this composite photograph of him. He refused to answer any more questions and was taken back to his cell at 7:15 p.m.
These were the highlights for Saturday, November 23, 1963. LHO was questioned three times and again the discussion never mentioned JDT’s murder and that was what he was arrested for initially. Why not? Also, during these three interrogations LHO continued to be denied legal representation as Frtiz’s claim is not credible as it was to the DPD’s advantage to have a lawyer for LHO to protect what was learned for use in a court of law. That is, if they expected it to reach that stage.
We see no evidence of LHO lying as claimed and NO evidence showing the conclusion of the WC was correct, thus, they are sunk again.
static01.nyt.com/images/2011/11/13/books/review/13MORRIS/13MORRIS-jumbo.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot and killed President John F. Kennedy (JFK) all by himself on November 22, 1963. They also claimed he shot and killed Dallas Police Officer J.D. Tippit (JDT) on the same day before he was arrested for officially “acting suspicious” and “not paying for a movie ticket”.
In this post we will continue to look at the statements LHO allegedly made during his interrogations by the Dallas Police Department (DPD) on Saturday, November 23, 1963.
************************************************
At 10:25 a.m. on Saturday, November 23, 1963, LHO was taken from his cell for another interrogation session with Captain Will Fritz. Also present were FBI Agent Jim Bookhout, Secret Service (SS) Agent Forrest Sorrels, United States Marshall Robert Nash and homicide detectives.
This interview began with the issue of LHO leaving the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD). He claimed to have taken a bus and gotten a transfer before entering a cab per this report. I have covered the bus ride and transfer in-depth before in this series so I won’t go through all that again, but suffice it to say, things are NOT that simple and do NOT add up if you rely on the claims of the WC alone. I have also covered the cab issue in-depth too so I will skip that as well.
LHO then denied ever saying he was going home for curtain rods as claimed by Wesley Frazier. The report then mentions a key point.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0314b.gif
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0315a.gif
During this conversation he told me he reached his home by cab and changed his SHIRT and trousers going to the show. When asked what he did with his clothing he took off when he got home, he said he put them in the dirty clothes. (WCR, XI, pp. 604-605; pp. 6-7 in original) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0314b.htm
Quote off
Notice how he said he changed his shirt and trousers. This is important as the WC would claim a piece of evidence tying LHO to the alleged murder weapon would be shirt fibers found on the rifle’s butt plate, but those fibers matched the shirt LHO was WEARING AT THE TIME HE WAS ARRESTED! If he changed shirts, and there is some evidence showing he did, then how could this happen? Also, why would he “lie” and claim he did when he would NOT know about the shirt fiber issue since the DPD was NOT sharing information with him? IOWs, there would be NO purpose for LHO to lie about something this simple if he did NOT do it.
LHO was then asked about where he was at the time the President was shot and he said he was eating lunch. He then gave two descriptions of employees who were in there when he was. He said one was called “junior” and the other one was a short man and he did not know his name. As I have asked before (and never really gotten an answer to), how would LHO know who was in there IF he was NOT there?
There was a “junior” eating lunch in there around the time LHO said he was eating. His name was James “Junior” Jarman.
Mr. BALL - State your name please?
Mr. JARMAN - James Jarman, Junior.
Mr. BALL - What do they call you, Junior?
Mr. JARMAN - Junior.
Jarman would say he noticed LHO eating in the Domino room quite often too.
Mr. BALL - Did you ever see him when he was eating his lunch?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Where?
Mr. JARMAN - Sometimes in the, as we called it, domino room, and again over coffee table where they make coffee.
Mr. BALL - Is that the first floor?
Mr. JARMAN - That is the first floor.
Thus, it was NOT uncommon for LHO to eat in the first floor lunchroom as he said he did on November 22, 1963. The “short man” whose name LHO did NOT know was Harold Norman and he confirmed he ate his lunch in the Domino room that day before the WC.
Mr. BALL. After you washed up, what did you do?
Mr. NORMAN. Well, I got my lunch, I ate my lunch in the domino room.
Mr. BALL. Who was with you at that time?
Mr. NORMAN. I can't remember who ate in the lunchroom, I mean the domino room, with me.
Mr. BALL. Did some other employees eat there?
Mr. NORMAN. I think there was someone else in there because we usually played dominoes in there but that particular day we didn't play that morning.
Notice he says he thinks “someone else was in there” as if it was a large room. IT wasn’t. In his affidavit he said he knew LHO somewhat so this should NOT be hard to remember IF LHO was in the lunchroom as he said he was.
Quote on
I was acquainted with Lee Oswald during the time that he was employed at this company, but I never did get to know him well. I have spoken to him briefly to say "Hello" or in connection with my work, but I never carried on any conversations with him. He did not mix with the employees and did not appear to want to make friends with me or any of the others. I never saw him at any time other than in the building at work.
jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/norman_1.htm
Quote off
Why was Norman unable to say if it was LHO or not? Also, why did Norman deny eating with Jarman as LHO said? He said this about where Jarman was while he was eating lunch.
Mr. BALL. Where was James Jarman when you got together with him?
Mr. NORMAN. He was somewhere in the vicinity of the telephone, I believe. I am not for sure.
Norman made it sound like they did NOT eat together. He then says they went to the fifth floor together after he finished eating.
Mr. BALL. After you ate your lunch, what did you do?
Mr. NORMAN. I got with James Jarman, he and I got together on the first floor…Well, we stayed there I believe until we got the news that the motorcade was coming down, let's see, is that Commerce, no Main, because Commerce- we went beck in the building, James Jarman and I.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go when you went in the building?
Mr. NORMAN. The west elevator. And went to the fifth floor.
So here he says he and Jarman went to the fifth floor, but in his affidavit he made it sound like Williams was with them when he was NOT.
Quote on
About 12:15 P.M. on this same date, after I had eaten my lunch, I went to the fifth floor of the building to watch the parade of the President pass the building. Bonnie Ray Williams and James Jarman, who also worked at this building went with me.
Quote off
Bonnie Ray Williams (BRW) clearly said he left the sixth floor after he finished his lunch and met Jarman and Norman on the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL. Where did you go when you left there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I went down to the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL. You took the elevator from the sixth floor to the fifth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Where did you intend to go when you left the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I intended to stop on the fifth floor, and if there wasn't anyone there, I intended to get out of the building, go outside.
Mr. BALL. Did you find anybody there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. As I remember, when I was walking up, I think Harold Norman and James Jarman as I remember, they was down facing the Elm Street on the fifth floor, as I remember.
You may be thinking this is a small issue of no importance, but it isn’t. Inconsistencies in testimony are very important and it can show a witness is either NOT recalling what happened properly or misrepresenting what did happen for any number of reasons. Either way, this calls into question their reliability on the issue(s) you are asking them about. It is clear, Norman went to the fifth with Jarman and BRW met them there. When we add this gaff by Norman to his not remembering if the person was LHO or not in the lunchroom and him NOT remembering eating with Jarman we can start to have some doubts about his reliability.
One other thing of importance in this issue is that LHO said he brought his lunch with him on November 22, 1963, and this has been called a lie by many WC defenders, but according to Jarman LHO brought his lunch most of the time he worked at the TSBD.
Mr. BALL - Did you notice whether Oswald brought his lunch most of the time or bought his lunch most of the time?
Mr. JARMAN - Most of the time he brought his lunch.
Mr. BALL - Most of the time he brought his lunch?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes.
The odd thing would be for LHO NOT to bring his lunch as claimed by the WC on November 22, 1963, but of course they never supported this or showed it to be true, thus, we have to take LHO’s word for it at this point since it is corroborated by Jarman's testimony.
The WC insinuated they caught him in a lie when he said his brother Robert Oswald lived in “Ft. Worth” because he actually lived in Denton, Texas! Wow. LHO denied ever being a member in the Communist Party and had to be telling the truth since the WC, DPD and FBI NEVER produced any evidence showing he was a member of that organization.
The next statement by LHO makes us wonder even more about the alleged revolver order from Seaport Traders.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/pages/WCReport_0315b.gif
He refused to answer questions about the pistol. He did tell me, however, that he had bought it SEVERAL MONTHS BEFORE in Fort Worth, Texas. (Ibid., p. 606; p. 8 in original) (Emphasis added)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0315b.htm
Quote off
How could LHO purchase a revolver in Forth Worth, Texas, and leave no trail of it? Why was this NOT investigated? Oh, that is right, because he supposedly ordered the revolver form Seaport Traders in January 1963. Again, the WC stuck to its preconceived outcome and avoided any evidence that led in another direction.
Next we see a bunch of nonsense about Fritz telling him he had a right to an attorney and didn’t have to answer any questions if he didn’t want to without one. Keep in mind, during his nearly 48 hours in custody he was never given any legal representation at all. Who really thinks LHO said all of this when he didn’t have to given the quiet nature of the man? I sure don’t. The lack of recordings and transcripts sure calls into question the legitimacy of all of these supposed statements for me. Supposedly he wanted to be interrogated by a ton of people with NO lawyer IF it couldn’t be John Abt. Sure.
At 11:33 a.m. LHO was taken back to his cell, but at 12: 35 p.m. he was brought back for more questioning by SS Inspector Thomas Kelley, Frtiz and some officers. After basic questioning about the places he had lived in the Dallas area and where he kept his belongings he was put back into his cell at 1:10 p.m.
At 6:00 p.m. LHO would be brought back in for more questioning with Fritz, FBI Agent Jim Bookhout, SS Inspector Kelley and Homicide detectives. LHO was shown one of the Backyard Photographs (BYPs) at this point. As we have seen previously in this series LHO denied this was of him as he said his head had been superimposed onto someone else’s body. He also denied that the photograph had ever been in his possession. He would claim it was the DPD who had made this composite photograph of him. He refused to answer any more questions and was taken back to his cell at 7:15 p.m.
These were the highlights for Saturday, November 23, 1963. LHO was questioned three times and again the discussion never mentioned JDT’s murder and that was what he was arrested for initially. Why not? Also, during these three interrogations LHO continued to be denied legal representation as Frtiz’s claim is not credible as it was to the DPD’s advantage to have a lawyer for LHO to protect what was learned for use in a court of law. That is, if they expected it to reach that stage.
We see no evidence of LHO lying as claimed and NO evidence showing the conclusion of the WC was correct, thus, they are sunk again.