Post by Rob Caprio on Oct 25, 2018 21:50:34 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
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We will continue our look at witnesses in Dealey Plaza (DP) that had a different opinion of where the shots came from. In fact, the majority of witnesses asked (two-thirds) said they thought the shots originated from the Grassy Knoll (GK) or underpass areas. It got so bad the Warren Commission (WC) stopped asking witnesses this very basic question (123 witnesses were NEVER asked this).
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Danny Arce
Mr. BALL. Where were you standing when you heard the shots?
Mr. ARCE. I was standing in front of the Texas School Book Depository. I was on that grassy area part in front.
Mr. BALL. You were not on the sidewalk?
Mr. ARCE. No, I was on the sidewalk, then I walked up to the grass to get a higher view and still couldn't see.
This is a key statement as he was standing across the street from the FRONT of the TSBD, and yet, he would still say he thought the shots came from the west area. There is a key photo showing all those people in front of the TSBD immediately after the shots were fired and NOT one person is looking UP as if the shots came from over their heads.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear shots?
Mr. ARCE. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. How many?
Mr. ARCE. Three.
Mr. BALL. Where did you make out the direction of the sound?
Mr. ARCE. Yeah, I thought they came from the railroad tracks to the west of the Texas School Book Depository.
Mr. Arce is yet another witness who said he thought the shots came from a direction other than the “official” one given to us by the WC. The WC would try in vain to make it seem like he was NOT in a position to know of course.
Mr. BALL. When you were on the grass, were you south where you were? Where were you with reference to the entrance to the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. ARCE. I was down to the west side, a little more to the west.
Mr. BALL. Were you west of the building itself?
Mr. ARCE. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. You were not in front of the building?
Mr. ARCE. I was directly in front, but then I walked a few steps down to the west side.
Mr. BALL. Where were you with reference to the west wall of the building?
Mr. ARCE. Oh, I was way far from it. I was across the street, I mean.
Mr. BALL. What do you mean "across the street"?
Mr. ARCE. Well, there's a little sidewalk right across the street and there's some grass and things up there and that's where I was at. I couldn't tell you exactly where I was, see, it's hard to explain.
Mr. BALL. Well, you say you were not in front of the building?
Mr. ARCE. Well, not directly, not in front; I was across the street.
Mr. BALL. And were you west of the west wall of the building?
Mr. ARCE. Well, I was, well the building—
Mr. BALL. I understand but you were to the south of the building. You had to be south of the building, didn't you?
Mr. ARCE. Well, I was south but I was, well, I guess you could say I was in front of the building but not directly in front, well, I don't know how to explain it.
All this berating, and that is what it is, because he said he thought the shots came from the GK area. What difference does it make if he is across the street or right in front of the building? It would seem he was still in a better position to think the shots came from the TSBD if they did.
Even with this badgering (something a defense attorney would have objected to) he stuck to his guns.
Mr. BALL. Now, it sounded to you that the shots came from what direction?
Mr. ARCE. From the tracks on the west deal.
Mr. BALL. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. ARCE. Three
Mr. BALL. Did you look back at the building?
Mr. ARCE. No, I didn't think they came from there. I just looked directly to the railroad tracks and all the people started running up there and I just ran along with them.
Mr. BALL. Did you go up to the railroad tracks?
Mr. ARCE. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anything up there?
Mr. ARCE. No, and they told us go back there and I went back inside the building.
Every witness who said they thought the shots came from the west/GK/underpass area, and then subsequently went to the railroad tracks, was asked the same question – did you see anything? Why didn’t they ask this of the witnesses (one-third) who said they thought the shots came from the TSBD? Why no questions about seeing LHO in the alleged SN with a rifle in his hands? Or if they went up to the sixth floor to see since they thought the shots came from there? Just wondering.
Notice how he went back into the TSBD. You will see many other witnesses say this indicating they did NOT think any shots came from there, otherwise, why would you enter a building with a person (or persons) with a gun in it?
Otis Williams
Back to Commission Exhibit (CE) 1381 we go. On page 683 we will see his statement. It is hard to read so I will stick to the area that pertains to where he thought the shots came from.
Quote on
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0357a.gif
Just after the Presidential car passed the building and went out of sight over the Elm Street embankment I heard three loud blasts. I thought these blasts or shots came from the direction of the viaduct which crosses Elm Street. I did not then know that President John F. Kennedy had been shot. I remained momentarily on the steps and then returned inside the building. (CE 1381, p. 683; p. 105 in original)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0357a.htm
Quote off
He also thought the shots originated from the west area of the plaza. The interesting thing here is how he just went back into the building after the shooting, thus, he could NOT have felt as if the shots came from there as again who would enter a building that might have a person, or persons, with a gun?
Ochus Campbell
As we saw in “Statements (& Questions) That Sink The WC’s Conclusions” #65, Mr. Campbell also believed the shots came from the west. Mr. Cambell would say in a signed statement (included in CE-1381, page 638) after hearing shots fired.
Quote on
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0334b.gif
I definitely did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time and in fact had no occasion to look back at the Texas School Book Depository building as I THOUGHT THE SHOTS HAD COME FROM THE WEST.
I have had the occasion to view photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald and to the best of my recollection NEVER SAW HIM while he was employed by the Texas School Book Depository. (CE 1381, p. 638; p. 14 original) (Emphasis added)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0334b.htm
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He said he had “no occasion to back at the TSBD” since he thought the shots came from the west. In his FBI report based on an interview with him he would be quoted as saying this:
Quote on
He then observed the car bearing President KENNEDY to slow down, a near stop, and a motorcycle policeman rushed up. Immediately following this, he observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately rushed into his building without having seen anything unusual from any window of his building.
jfkassassination.net/russ/exhibits/ce1435.htm
Quote off
First off, notice his comment about the Presidential limo coming to a “near stop”. That is rigorously debated by the WC defenders, but too many witnesses (59 in all) said it either came to a stop or a near stop for it be wrong. Secondly, notice how he “immediately rushed into the building” (TSBD) too, again, indicating he did NOT believe shots came from there. This thought is confirmed by the next words, “…without him having seen anything unusual from any WINDOW of his building.”
That sums up again for us he did NOT see anything consistent with shots being fired coming from his building.
We again see evidence that disputes the claims of the WC, thus, their conclusion is sunk again.
/caa68daf653fa253eb0ed00f5d685d81--dealey-plaza-kennedy-assassination.jpg" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">i.pinimg.com/736x/ca/a6//caa68daf653fa253eb0ed00f5d685d81--dealey-plaza-kennedy-assassination.jpg
We will continue our look at witnesses in Dealey Plaza (DP) that had a different opinion of where the shots came from. In fact, the majority of witnesses asked (two-thirds) said they thought the shots originated from the Grassy Knoll (GK) or underpass areas. It got so bad the Warren Commission (WC) stopped asking witnesses this very basic question (123 witnesses were NEVER asked this).
************************************************
Danny Arce
Mr. BALL. Where were you standing when you heard the shots?
Mr. ARCE. I was standing in front of the Texas School Book Depository. I was on that grassy area part in front.
Mr. BALL. You were not on the sidewalk?
Mr. ARCE. No, I was on the sidewalk, then I walked up to the grass to get a higher view and still couldn't see.
This is a key statement as he was standing across the street from the FRONT of the TSBD, and yet, he would still say he thought the shots came from the west area. There is a key photo showing all those people in front of the TSBD immediately after the shots were fired and NOT one person is looking UP as if the shots came from over their heads.
Mr. BALL. Did you hear shots?
Mr. ARCE. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. How many?
Mr. ARCE. Three.
Mr. BALL. Where did you make out the direction of the sound?
Mr. ARCE. Yeah, I thought they came from the railroad tracks to the west of the Texas School Book Depository.
Mr. Arce is yet another witness who said he thought the shots came from a direction other than the “official” one given to us by the WC. The WC would try in vain to make it seem like he was NOT in a position to know of course.
Mr. BALL. When you were on the grass, were you south where you were? Where were you with reference to the entrance to the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. ARCE. I was down to the west side, a little more to the west.
Mr. BALL. Were you west of the building itself?
Mr. ARCE. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. You were not in front of the building?
Mr. ARCE. I was directly in front, but then I walked a few steps down to the west side.
Mr. BALL. Where were you with reference to the west wall of the building?
Mr. ARCE. Oh, I was way far from it. I was across the street, I mean.
Mr. BALL. What do you mean "across the street"?
Mr. ARCE. Well, there's a little sidewalk right across the street and there's some grass and things up there and that's where I was at. I couldn't tell you exactly where I was, see, it's hard to explain.
Mr. BALL. Well, you say you were not in front of the building?
Mr. ARCE. Well, not directly, not in front; I was across the street.
Mr. BALL. And were you west of the west wall of the building?
Mr. ARCE. Well, I was, well the building—
Mr. BALL. I understand but you were to the south of the building. You had to be south of the building, didn't you?
Mr. ARCE. Well, I was south but I was, well, I guess you could say I was in front of the building but not directly in front, well, I don't know how to explain it.
All this berating, and that is what it is, because he said he thought the shots came from the GK area. What difference does it make if he is across the street or right in front of the building? It would seem he was still in a better position to think the shots came from the TSBD if they did.
Even with this badgering (something a defense attorney would have objected to) he stuck to his guns.
Mr. BALL. Now, it sounded to you that the shots came from what direction?
Mr. ARCE. From the tracks on the west deal.
Mr. BALL. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. ARCE. Three
Mr. BALL. Did you look back at the building?
Mr. ARCE. No, I didn't think they came from there. I just looked directly to the railroad tracks and all the people started running up there and I just ran along with them.
Mr. BALL. Did you go up to the railroad tracks?
Mr. ARCE. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anything up there?
Mr. ARCE. No, and they told us go back there and I went back inside the building.
Every witness who said they thought the shots came from the west/GK/underpass area, and then subsequently went to the railroad tracks, was asked the same question – did you see anything? Why didn’t they ask this of the witnesses (one-third) who said they thought the shots came from the TSBD? Why no questions about seeing LHO in the alleged SN with a rifle in his hands? Or if they went up to the sixth floor to see since they thought the shots came from there? Just wondering.
Notice how he went back into the TSBD. You will see many other witnesses say this indicating they did NOT think any shots came from there, otherwise, why would you enter a building with a person (or persons) with a gun in it?
Otis Williams
Back to Commission Exhibit (CE) 1381 we go. On page 683 we will see his statement. It is hard to read so I will stick to the area that pertains to where he thought the shots came from.
Quote on
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0357a.gif
Just after the Presidential car passed the building and went out of sight over the Elm Street embankment I heard three loud blasts. I thought these blasts or shots came from the direction of the viaduct which crosses Elm Street. I did not then know that President John F. Kennedy had been shot. I remained momentarily on the steps and then returned inside the building. (CE 1381, p. 683; p. 105 in original)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0357a.htm
Quote off
He also thought the shots originated from the west area of the plaza. The interesting thing here is how he just went back into the building after the shooting, thus, he could NOT have felt as if the shots came from there as again who would enter a building that might have a person, or persons, with a gun?
Ochus Campbell
As we saw in “Statements (& Questions) That Sink The WC’s Conclusions” #65, Mr. Campbell also believed the shots came from the west. Mr. Cambell would say in a signed statement (included in CE-1381, page 638) after hearing shots fired.
Quote on
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pages/WH_Vol22_0334b.gif
I definitely did not see Lee Harvey Oswald at that time and in fact had no occasion to look back at the Texas School Book Depository building as I THOUGHT THE SHOTS HAD COME FROM THE WEST.
I have had the occasion to view photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald and to the best of my recollection NEVER SAW HIM while he was employed by the Texas School Book Depository. (CE 1381, p. 638; p. 14 original) (Emphasis added)
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0334b.htm
Quote off
He said he had “no occasion to back at the TSBD” since he thought the shots came from the west. In his FBI report based on an interview with him he would be quoted as saying this:
Quote on
He then observed the car bearing President KENNEDY to slow down, a near stop, and a motorcycle policeman rushed up. Immediately following this, he observed the car rush away from the scene. He then immediately rushed into his building without having seen anything unusual from any window of his building.
jfkassassination.net/russ/exhibits/ce1435.htm
Quote off
First off, notice his comment about the Presidential limo coming to a “near stop”. That is rigorously debated by the WC defenders, but too many witnesses (59 in all) said it either came to a stop or a near stop for it be wrong. Secondly, notice how he “immediately rushed into the building” (TSBD) too, again, indicating he did NOT believe shots came from there. This thought is confirmed by the next words, “…without him having seen anything unusual from any WINDOW of his building.”
That sums up again for us he did NOT see anything consistent with shots being fired coming from his building.
We again see evidence that disputes the claims of the WC, thus, their conclusion is sunk again.