Post by Rob Caprio on Oct 25, 2018 21:53:04 GMT -5
All portions are ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
i.pinimg.com/originals/7a/1a/96/7a1a96b2fea1b5737dadddb2ea83f138.jpg
Let’s continue our look at witnesses who said the shots they heard came from places other than the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD). First though let’s look at the work of Mark Lane in this area.
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Many law enforcement officers searched the knoll area moments after the shots were fired while only a small number went to the TSBD. We have them on film, we have witnesses to confirm this, and we have photographs so trying to deny this is quite hard. Here is what Mark Lane said about this many years ago.
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Police Officers in general tend to identify with a case developed against a defendant. In this case, had any officer wanted to alter his story after the event, he would have been contradicted by the evidence of his own actions. He might be hard pressed to explain why he ran towards a hill, why he scaled a fence on the hill and searched the area behind the fence just after the President was shot in his presence if he really suspected that the assassin was somewhere else. (Mark Lane, Rush To Judgment, p. 43)
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How true. The police officers seen scaling the hill, jumping the fence and searching the railroad yards are on film or in pictures for the most part, so to deny it now is ridiculous. Jim Marrs also said this about the Sheriff deputies in DP:
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There were 20 sheriff's deputies watching the motorcade out in front of the Sheriff's Office and of all the witnesses in the plaza they have to go to the top of the list as they have more experience than the common bystander with the sound of gunshots.
16 said the Underpass/Knoll area was the source, three had no opinion and ONLY 1 said the TSBD. Of the other officers asked from the DPD 4 said the Underpass/knoll area, 4 said the TSBD and 4 gave no opinion. That is a 20 to 5 total, or a 4:1 advantage to the Underpass/Knoll area as the source of the shots by these experienced men. (Jim Marrs “Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy”, p. 435)
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Here are the results based on Mark Lane's research and interviews for "Rush to Judgment" that can be found in Chapter 2 pp. 36-39.
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There were more than 400 people in Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting. The WC knew the names of at least 266 of these people and 259 were able to testify (one was disabled and couldn't hear, one was a police officer who claimed a train came at the time of the shots (subsequent research has shown NO train was coming at the time of the assassination), and five were children aged 5 years or less). Twenty-three witnesses appeared before at least one member of the Commission; fifty-eight additional witnesses were questioned by the Commission's counsel; and one hundred and twenty-three additional witnesses were questioned by the DPD, Sheriff's Office, FBI or Secret Service (SS). *Fifty-five* people whose names were known were never questioned by the local or federal authorities. In sixty-eight cases of persons called to testify or to be interviewed by the local police (FBI and SS also) the examiner forgot or neglected to ask where they thought the shots came from. Of the ninety people who were asked this important question and were able to give an answer, fifty-eight said the shots came from the Grassy knoll and not the TSBD, and thirty-two disagreed. Thus, close to two-thirds who expressed their opinion on where they thought the shots came from said the Grassy knoll.
Lane also says it is important to point out that at least half of the thirty-two who did not agree that the shots came from the knoll were in the motorcade itself. Due to the moving of the vehicles it would be much harder for them to ascertain exactly what directions the shots originated from. He also points out that almost all of the dissenting votes - thirteen out of fifteen - were from government officials, their wives or aides, and local or federal police. Lane said they should not have their testimony dismissed because of this, but it would be realistic to cautiously assess their statements as being colored. There were quite a few in the thirty-two group that did not agree with the WC's theory either. The witnesses on the fifth-floor of the TSBD thought that when the shots were fired they came from a motorcycle or auto backfire, thus they assumed the shots were from street level.
Twenty-five people are known to have given affidavits on 11/22/63 and 11/23/63 and twenty-two of them said the shots came from the knoll. This is very important as these were taken prior to the "official theory" becoming known, so they are the true statements of these people. Finally, ninety-two out of one hundred and twenty-four affirmed, either explicitly or by the direction they ran or looked, thought that the shots came from the knoll and not the TSBD. (Mark Lane, Rush To Judgment, pp. 36-39)
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Avery Davis
This is from Commission Exibit (CE) 1381, page 642:
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A moment after the car in which President John F. Kennedy was riding passed, I heard three explosions. At first I did not realized that those explosions were gun shots, but then I saw a policeman running in the direction of the President’s car I surmised that someone had shot at the President. I did not know from which direction the shots had come, but thought they were from the direction of the viaduct which crosses Elm Street west from where I was standing. I, along with others, started to move forward in the direction of the President’s car, but moving about fifteen feet I turned and returned inside the Depository building.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0336b.htm
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We see the same pattern here. She though the shots came from the west area – viaduct – and she went back into the TSBD. Again, would you reenter a building that may have had a person with a gun in it? I doubt it.
She was NOT called by the WC.
Delores Kounas
This is from CE-1381, page 659:
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I recall that moments after the car bearing President John F. Kennedy passed my position, I heard a loud report which I thought to be a firecracker. Following the second shot, however, I then heard screaming and saw people running and I then believed the reports I had heard were gunfire. Although I was across the street from the Depository building and was looking in the direction of the building as the motorcade passed and following the shots, I did not look up at the building as I had thought the shots came from westerly direction in the vicinity of the viaduct.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0345a.htm
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She stayed out front listening to reports on a police officer’s motorcycle radio until 3:00 p.m. before entering the TSBD and getting her things to go home. If a “roll call” had been done on her group she could have been found “missing” too.
She was NOT called by the WC.
Joe Molina
Joe Molina was called and this is what he told the WC in regards to the shots.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anything after that?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, I heard the shots.
Mr. BALL. Where--what was the source of the sound?
Mr. MOLINA. Sort of like it reverberated, sort of kind of came from the west side; that was the first impression I got. Of course, the first shot was fired then there was an interval between the first and second longer than the second and third.
This comment of hearing a longer pause between the first and second shot while hearing a much shorter pause between the second and third shots would be heard from many witnesses. This is of course is IMPOSSIBLE if Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was the sole shooter as he had only 5.6 seconds to kill according to the Warren Commission (WC). Why would he waste time with a pause? Remember, it took 2.3 seconds to recycle the bolt per the WC. The rapid firing of the second and third sounds practically precludes LHO as the sole shooter by itself.
What about this fascinating comment?
Mr. BALL. Did you see Mr. Truly go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I was right in the entrance.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a police officer with him?
Mr. MOLINA. I didn't see a police officer. I don't recall seeing a police officer but I did see him go inside.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a white-helmeted police officer any time there in the entrance?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, of course, there might have been one after they secured the building, you know.
So Mr. Molina did NOT see Truly enter with Marion Baker as claimed and he was standing in the front entrance! The building would NOT be secured for some time so this is NO help to the WC or its defenders. What could the WC do? What it usually did, badger the witness.
Mr. BALL. No, I mean when Truly went in; did you see Truly actually go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I saw him go in.
Mr. BALL. Where were you standing?
Mr. MOLINA. Right at the front door; right at the front door.
Mr. BALL. Outside the front door?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, outside the front door I was standing; the door was right behind me.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing on the steps?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, on the uppermost step.
Mr. BALL. You actually saw Truly go inside?
Mr. MOLINA. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. You were still standing there?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How long was it after you heard the shots?
Mr. MOLINA. Oh, I would venture to say maybe 20 or 30 seconds afterwards.
They couldn’t shake his testimony. In fact, all they did was make it MORE CLEAR that he did NOT see a cop with Truly and this was only 20-30 seconds after the shooting! This blows their whole “Baker running into LHO” scenario to bits by itself so the WC did the ONLY thing it could do – CHANGE THE TOPIC to what some girl may have said or did not say!
Again, we see the WC’s own evidence do NOT support their claims, thus, their conclusion is sunk again.
i.pinimg.com/originals/7a/1a/96/7a1a96b2fea1b5737dadddb2ea83f138.jpg
Let’s continue our look at witnesses who said the shots they heard came from places other than the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD). First though let’s look at the work of Mark Lane in this area.
*********************************
Many law enforcement officers searched the knoll area moments after the shots were fired while only a small number went to the TSBD. We have them on film, we have witnesses to confirm this, and we have photographs so trying to deny this is quite hard. Here is what Mark Lane said about this many years ago.
Quote on
Police Officers in general tend to identify with a case developed against a defendant. In this case, had any officer wanted to alter his story after the event, he would have been contradicted by the evidence of his own actions. He might be hard pressed to explain why he ran towards a hill, why he scaled a fence on the hill and searched the area behind the fence just after the President was shot in his presence if he really suspected that the assassin was somewhere else. (Mark Lane, Rush To Judgment, p. 43)
Quote off
How true. The police officers seen scaling the hill, jumping the fence and searching the railroad yards are on film or in pictures for the most part, so to deny it now is ridiculous. Jim Marrs also said this about the Sheriff deputies in DP:
Quote on
There were 20 sheriff's deputies watching the motorcade out in front of the Sheriff's Office and of all the witnesses in the plaza they have to go to the top of the list as they have more experience than the common bystander with the sound of gunshots.
16 said the Underpass/Knoll area was the source, three had no opinion and ONLY 1 said the TSBD. Of the other officers asked from the DPD 4 said the Underpass/knoll area, 4 said the TSBD and 4 gave no opinion. That is a 20 to 5 total, or a 4:1 advantage to the Underpass/Knoll area as the source of the shots by these experienced men. (Jim Marrs “Crossfire: The Plot That Killed Kennedy”, p. 435)
Quote off
Here are the results based on Mark Lane's research and interviews for "Rush to Judgment" that can be found in Chapter 2 pp. 36-39.
Quote on
There were more than 400 people in Dealey Plaza at the time of the shooting. The WC knew the names of at least 266 of these people and 259 were able to testify (one was disabled and couldn't hear, one was a police officer who claimed a train came at the time of the shots (subsequent research has shown NO train was coming at the time of the assassination), and five were children aged 5 years or less). Twenty-three witnesses appeared before at least one member of the Commission; fifty-eight additional witnesses were questioned by the Commission's counsel; and one hundred and twenty-three additional witnesses were questioned by the DPD, Sheriff's Office, FBI or Secret Service (SS). *Fifty-five* people whose names were known were never questioned by the local or federal authorities. In sixty-eight cases of persons called to testify or to be interviewed by the local police (FBI and SS also) the examiner forgot or neglected to ask where they thought the shots came from. Of the ninety people who were asked this important question and were able to give an answer, fifty-eight said the shots came from the Grassy knoll and not the TSBD, and thirty-two disagreed. Thus, close to two-thirds who expressed their opinion on where they thought the shots came from said the Grassy knoll.
Lane also says it is important to point out that at least half of the thirty-two who did not agree that the shots came from the knoll were in the motorcade itself. Due to the moving of the vehicles it would be much harder for them to ascertain exactly what directions the shots originated from. He also points out that almost all of the dissenting votes - thirteen out of fifteen - were from government officials, their wives or aides, and local or federal police. Lane said they should not have their testimony dismissed because of this, but it would be realistic to cautiously assess their statements as being colored. There were quite a few in the thirty-two group that did not agree with the WC's theory either. The witnesses on the fifth-floor of the TSBD thought that when the shots were fired they came from a motorcycle or auto backfire, thus they assumed the shots were from street level.
Twenty-five people are known to have given affidavits on 11/22/63 and 11/23/63 and twenty-two of them said the shots came from the knoll. This is very important as these were taken prior to the "official theory" becoming known, so they are the true statements of these people. Finally, ninety-two out of one hundred and twenty-four affirmed, either explicitly or by the direction they ran or looked, thought that the shots came from the knoll and not the TSBD. (Mark Lane, Rush To Judgment, pp. 36-39)
Quote off
Avery Davis
This is from Commission Exibit (CE) 1381, page 642:
Quote on
A moment after the car in which President John F. Kennedy was riding passed, I heard three explosions. At first I did not realized that those explosions were gun shots, but then I saw a policeman running in the direction of the President’s car I surmised that someone had shot at the President. I did not know from which direction the shots had come, but thought they were from the direction of the viaduct which crosses Elm Street west from where I was standing. I, along with others, started to move forward in the direction of the President’s car, but moving about fifteen feet I turned and returned inside the Depository building.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0336b.htm
Quote off
We see the same pattern here. She though the shots came from the west area – viaduct – and she went back into the TSBD. Again, would you reenter a building that may have had a person with a gun in it? I doubt it.
She was NOT called by the WC.
Delores Kounas
This is from CE-1381, page 659:
Quote on
I recall that moments after the car bearing President John F. Kennedy passed my position, I heard a loud report which I thought to be a firecracker. Following the second shot, however, I then heard screaming and saw people running and I then believed the reports I had heard were gunfire. Although I was across the street from the Depository building and was looking in the direction of the building as the motorcade passed and following the shots, I did not look up at the building as I had thought the shots came from westerly direction in the vicinity of the viaduct.
historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0345a.htm
Quote off
She stayed out front listening to reports on a police officer’s motorcycle radio until 3:00 p.m. before entering the TSBD and getting her things to go home. If a “roll call” had been done on her group she could have been found “missing” too.
She was NOT called by the WC.
Joe Molina
Joe Molina was called and this is what he told the WC in regards to the shots.
Mr. BALL. Did you see anything after that?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, I heard the shots.
Mr. BALL. Where--what was the source of the sound?
Mr. MOLINA. Sort of like it reverberated, sort of kind of came from the west side; that was the first impression I got. Of course, the first shot was fired then there was an interval between the first and second longer than the second and third.
This comment of hearing a longer pause between the first and second shot while hearing a much shorter pause between the second and third shots would be heard from many witnesses. This is of course is IMPOSSIBLE if Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) was the sole shooter as he had only 5.6 seconds to kill according to the Warren Commission (WC). Why would he waste time with a pause? Remember, it took 2.3 seconds to recycle the bolt per the WC. The rapid firing of the second and third sounds practically precludes LHO as the sole shooter by itself.
What about this fascinating comment?
Mr. BALL. Did you see Mr. Truly go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I was right in the entrance.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a police officer with him?
Mr. MOLINA. I didn't see a police officer. I don't recall seeing a police officer but I did see him go inside.
Mr. BALL. Did you see a white-helmeted police officer any time there in the entrance?
Mr. MOLINA. Well, of course, there might have been one after they secured the building, you know.
So Mr. Molina did NOT see Truly enter with Marion Baker as claimed and he was standing in the front entrance! The building would NOT be secured for some time so this is NO help to the WC or its defenders. What could the WC do? What it usually did, badger the witness.
Mr. BALL. No, I mean when Truly went in; did you see Truly actually go into the building?
Mr. MOLINA. I saw him go in.
Mr. BALL. Where were you standing?
Mr. MOLINA. Right at the front door; right at the front door.
Mr. BALL. Outside the front door?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, outside the front door I was standing; the door was right behind me.
Mr. BALL. Were you standing on the steps?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes, on the uppermost step.
Mr. BALL. You actually saw Truly go inside?
Mr. MOLINA. Yeah.
Mr. BALL. You were still standing there?
Mr. MOLINA. Yes.
Mr. BALL. How long was it after you heard the shots?
Mr. MOLINA. Oh, I would venture to say maybe 20 or 30 seconds afterwards.
They couldn’t shake his testimony. In fact, all they did was make it MORE CLEAR that he did NOT see a cop with Truly and this was only 20-30 seconds after the shooting! This blows their whole “Baker running into LHO” scenario to bits by itself so the WC did the ONLY thing it could do – CHANGE THE TOPIC to what some girl may have said or did not say!
Again, we see the WC’s own evidence do NOT support their claims, thus, their conclusion is sunk again.