Post by Rob Caprio on Dec 3, 2022 20:35:38 GMT -5
All portions ©️ Robert Caprio 2006-2024
www.archives.gov/files/publications/prologue/2017/fall/images/warren-commission.jpg
image.slidesharecdn.com/jfkambushexplanationv5-121227211136-phpapp02/95/jfk-getting-him-to-the-ambush-39-638.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot three times and killed President John F. Kennedy (JFK) on November 22, 1963. We have seen much evidence in many posts so far, and even looked at some ODD evidence against LHO in a previous post before.
This post will look at more of this odd evidence and again inquire why the WC seemed to ignore it while reaching their conclusion.
****************************************
Our first piece of odd evidence does NOT show LHO fired three shots or was innocent of doing so, but it does point a spotlight on a possible conspiracy. In Commission Exhibit 1967 (FBI 11/23/63 interview of Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig) we will see a mention of a Rambler automobile picking up a man according to Roger Craig.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pages/WH_Vol23_0425a.jpg
…Shortly after this, approximately 3 or 4 minutes, came back across Elm Street and observed an individual run down the grass area from the direction of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD). He heard this individual whistle and a white Rambler station wagon, driven by a Negro male, pulled over to the curb and said individual got in and the car headed toward the Dallas-Fort Worth turnpike. (CE 1967, p. 817)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0425a.htm
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This individual would be later identified by Roger Craig as being LHO.
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Craig stated at 5:18 PM, November 22, 1963, he was given an opportunity to observe Lee Harvey Oswald in the office of Captain J.W. Fritz in the Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Dallas Police Department, and that he is positive that Oswald is IDENTICAL with the same individual he observed getting into the Rambler station wagon as mentioned above. (Ibid.) (Emphasis added)
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grandsubversion.com/jfkAssassination/images/dalspt2/rambler_wagon_tsbd.jpg
For years this claim by Deputy Sheriff Craig was attacked and scorned. They said he was NOT in the Dallas Police Department (DPD) headquarters that day. This dialog has been given for years as evidence of Craig’s presence in Fritz’s office.
Quote on
“This man (pointing to me) saw you leave.” At which time the suspect replied, “I told you people I did.” Fritz, apparently trying to console Oswald, said, “Take it easy, son—we‘re just trying to find out what happened.” Fritz then said, “What about the car?” Oswald replied, leaning forward on Fritz‘s desk, “That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine—don‘t try to drag her into this.” Sitting back in his chair, Oswald said very disgustedly and very low, “Everybody will know who I am now.”
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The WC defenders did NOT buy this exchange and kept to their claim that Roger Craig was NOT in DPD headquarters around the time that was claimed. Why? Because Captain Fritz denied that he was there.
Mr. Ball. Did [Craig] ever come into your office and talk to you in the presence of Oswald?
Mr. Fritz. In the presence of Oswald?
Mr. Ball. Yes.
Mr. Fritz. No, sir; I am sure he did not.
It was easier for the WC to ignore Craig, and they did so with this comment on page 160 of their report: "The Commission could not accept important elements of Craig's testimony". Why? Because having LHO picked up by another person could lead to the area of conspiracy and the WC did NOT want that at all. Roger Craig would discuss this more in his Clay Shaw testimony, and remember, this was subject to PERJURY so ask yourself this, why would he lie about something that did NOT happen when he could face charges?
Q: Did you have occasion Mr. Craig, to see the individual that you saw running down the slope and getting in the station wagon, did you have occasion to see him again on that day?
Craig: Yes, later that evening.
Q: Where did you see him?
Craig: At Captain Will Fritz's Office who is Captain of Homicide & Robbery in the Dallas Police Department.
Q: What were you doing up there on that occasion?
Craig: I was filling out a report after the assassination in my office and of course I had known about the officer being killed and I possibly in my mind possibly tied the two together and I called Captain Fritz and gave him a description of the man I saw running down the grassy knoll and he said "That sounds like --"
MR. DYMOND: I object, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You can't say what he said, Mr. Craig.
BY MR. ALCOCK: Q: As a result of this telephone conversation did you have occasion to view anyone?
Craig: Yes, sir, I went to Police Headquarters.
Q: Did you recognize anyone at Police Headquarters?
Craig: Yes, sir, in Captain Fritz's office the same man that I had seen running down the hill.
Q: Who was in Captain Fritz's Office at the time you saw the individual?
Craig: There were two men in the office. The one seating to the left as I walked in I didn't know, and he was in a business suit with a white Stetson hat and I assumed he was one of Captain Fritz's men and the other man was Lee Harvey Oswald.
Q: Now I show you what has been marked for purposes of identification as State Exhibit 1 and I ask you if you recognize the person in this picture?
Craig: Yes, sir, that is the man I saw in Captain Fritz's Office.
Q: Is this the man you saw running down the slope?
Craig: Yes, it is.
Q: The one that got in the station wagon?
Craig: Yes.
Q: And who is the individual depicted in this picture?
Craig: Lee Harvey Oswald.
Q: Did you have occasion to go into Captain Fritz's Office at the time Lee Harvey Oswald was in there?
Craig: Yes, sir, Captain Fritz showed me into his office where the two gentlemen were sitting.
Q: What did he say?
Craig: Captain Fritz, this man was --
MR. DYMOND: I object to what Captain Fritz said.
THE COURT: You can't say what Captain Fritz said but just what Lee Harvey Oswald said.
THE WITNESS [Craig]: I made an identification of Lee Harvey Oswald as the man I saw running down the grassy knoll.
This is very clear and subject to perjury, so why would Craig lie about this IF it was NOT what he saw? What possibly could he gain from saying this IF it was NOT true (and went against what his own Sheriff’s Office was saying)? Fritz did confirm for us in his affidavit that Roger Craig was in the OUTER office (and this is shown in a photograph that would emerge years later).
3.bp.blogspot.com/-SRwm-Buoekg/TeYZzk1kP-I/AAAAAAAAAWE/2a1sEQ0VJ0Y/s1600/600_roger_in_office.jpg
Quote on
Reference to testimony of Roger Craig
I don’t remember the name Roger Craig, but I do remember a man coming to my outer office and I remember one of my officers calling me outside the door of my private office. I talked to this man for a minute or two, and he started telling me a story about seeing Oswald leave the building. I don’t remember all the things this man said, but I turned him over to Lt. Baker who talked to him. Lee Harvey Oswald was in my office at this time. (VII, p. 404)
www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=41&relPageId=414
Quote off
This matches the photograph we now have and it certainly supports Craig’s claims no matter what Fritz recalls in my opinion. Obviously what Roger Craig was saying was NOT good for the DPD or the WC later on so it would NOT surprise me that Fritz claimed no memory of this happening.
[Note: For a view of this photograph go here: Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry’s book JFK Assassination Files: The book contains a photograph taken through the door of Captain Fritz's office to show the interrogation of Oswald. There, in plain view, is Roger Craig." Reasonable Doubt - Henry Hurt, p.125... citation to page 72 of "JFK Assassination Files" by Jesse Curry.]
Fritz also would claim he did NOT remember LHO getting to his feet and exclaiming anything, but even that is NOT the true picture of what was said by Roger Craig. I quoted this to Dave Von Pein back in 2008.
Quote on
The man's name? Craig was almost guaranteed to have been summoned so even if Fritz didn't know all the officers in his command someone had to have told him Craig's name before he spoke with him. Craig never said he jumped up, but said "He was leaning over the desk. At this time, (declaring everyone would know who he was) he had risen PARTIALLY out of the chair and leaning over the desk, looking directly at Captain Fritz." (VI, 270) This is a far cry from "jumping out of his chair" in my opinion. The WC disregarded Craig because of Mary Bledsoe, although they would say due to “overwhelming evidence."
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Also, a question comes to mind, why in the heck was he interrogating LHO in his OWN office when they had special rooms for that? Wouldn’t it be more likely those rooms had tape recorders and note pads too? That is just a thought.
Roger Craig would receive corroboration for his claim too later on as researchers found a document long since buried and hidden. It was Commission Document (CD) 5. Henry Hurt discussed this in his book Reasonable Doubt as he found this document in the National Archives (NA) during his research.
Quote on
Soon after the shooting, Marvin C. Robinson was driving west along Elm Street in heavy traffic. According to an FBI report dated the next day, just as Robinson crossed the Elm and Houston intersection, he saw a "light-colored Nash station wagon" stop in front of the Book Depository. A white man walked down the grassy incline from the building, got into the Nash, and the car moved off in the direction of Oak Cliff. Robinson was unable to provide any additional information. (CD5, p. 70)
www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10406&relPageId=73
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Further corroboration would come from witness Richard Carr who was working on the roof of the County Records Building on November 22, 1963. When the shooting stopped Carr descended to ground level, where he again saw the man in the sportcoat. Carr said he followed him for about a block and saw him get into a Nash Rambler driven by a dark-complected man. Henry Hurt would write this about the issue:
Quote on
It should be noted that over the years Carr's testimony has been somewhat inconsistent. And, for whatever reason, he has been seriously intimidated since originally offering his account to officials. He has been shot at and has found sticks of dynamite wired to his automobile's ignition switch. Still, Carr's earliest reports to officials are consistent on his sighting of the Nash Rambler.
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In a taped interview with researcher Jim Marrs Richard Carr would say the following about his experience as a witness.
Quote on
The FBI came to my house—there were two of them—and they said they heard I witnessed the assassination and I said I did. They told me, “If you didn’t see LHO up in the TSBD with a rifle, you didn’t witness it.” I said, “Well, the man I saw on television that they tell me is LHO was not in the window of the TSBD. That’s not the man.” And [one of the agents] said I better keep my mouth shut. He did not ask me what I saw, he told me what I saw.
Quote off
The next day his home would be ransacked by DPD officers who were executing a warrant (why?) and he was held at gunpoint. Were the WC witnesses subjected to this? I doubt it. He would receive an anonymous call advising him to “get out of Texas.” Carr would leave Texas for Montana, but would still find dynamite taped to his engine and be shot at on another occasion. It would seem what he saw was NOT wanted by the WC and the authorities.
Another witness, that makes FOUR, Helen Forrest saw the same man run toward the Nash Rambler and get in. She said, "If it wasn't Oswald, it was his identical twin." Helen Forrest was never interviewed by the WC nor was her statement published in the WC volumes. The WC’s witnesses NEVER have any corroboration, and yet, the WC has NO problem believing them. Why?
This issue should NOT be disregarded and should be explored much more as it is a possible look into the conspiracy that killed JFK. Were there more than one Oswald? This issue could show that there was or it could show that the official explanation of how LHO left the TSBD is incorrect. Given their track record that is a high probability.
For more on this topic and witnesses you can view this:
jfkconspiracyforum.freeforums.net/thread/1289/nash-rambler-witnesses
www.archives.gov/files/publications/prologue/2017/fall/images/warren-commission.jpg
image.slidesharecdn.com/jfkambushexplanationv5-121227211136-phpapp02/95/jfk-getting-him-to-the-ambush-39-638.jpg
The Warren Commission (WC) claimed Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) shot three times and killed President John F. Kennedy (JFK) on November 22, 1963. We have seen much evidence in many posts so far, and even looked at some ODD evidence against LHO in a previous post before.
This post will look at more of this odd evidence and again inquire why the WC seemed to ignore it while reaching their conclusion.
****************************************
Our first piece of odd evidence does NOT show LHO fired three shots or was innocent of doing so, but it does point a spotlight on a possible conspiracy. In Commission Exhibit 1967 (FBI 11/23/63 interview of Deputy Sheriff Roger Craig) we will see a mention of a Rambler automobile picking up a man according to Roger Craig.
Quote on
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/pages/WH_Vol23_0425a.jpg
…Shortly after this, approximately 3 or 4 minutes, came back across Elm Street and observed an individual run down the grass area from the direction of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD). He heard this individual whistle and a white Rambler station wagon, driven by a Negro male, pulled over to the curb and said individual got in and the car headed toward the Dallas-Fort Worth turnpike. (CE 1967, p. 817)
www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0425a.htm
Quote off
This individual would be later identified by Roger Craig as being LHO.
Quote on
Craig stated at 5:18 PM, November 22, 1963, he was given an opportunity to observe Lee Harvey Oswald in the office of Captain J.W. Fritz in the Homicide and Robbery Bureau, Dallas Police Department, and that he is positive that Oswald is IDENTICAL with the same individual he observed getting into the Rambler station wagon as mentioned above. (Ibid.) (Emphasis added)
Quote off
grandsubversion.com/jfkAssassination/images/dalspt2/rambler_wagon_tsbd.jpg
For years this claim by Deputy Sheriff Craig was attacked and scorned. They said he was NOT in the Dallas Police Department (DPD) headquarters that day. This dialog has been given for years as evidence of Craig’s presence in Fritz’s office.
Quote on
“This man (pointing to me) saw you leave.” At which time the suspect replied, “I told you people I did.” Fritz, apparently trying to console Oswald, said, “Take it easy, son—we‘re just trying to find out what happened.” Fritz then said, “What about the car?” Oswald replied, leaning forward on Fritz‘s desk, “That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine—don‘t try to drag her into this.” Sitting back in his chair, Oswald said very disgustedly and very low, “Everybody will know who I am now.”
Quote off
The WC defenders did NOT buy this exchange and kept to their claim that Roger Craig was NOT in DPD headquarters around the time that was claimed. Why? Because Captain Fritz denied that he was there.
Mr. Ball. Did [Craig] ever come into your office and talk to you in the presence of Oswald?
Mr. Fritz. In the presence of Oswald?
Mr. Ball. Yes.
Mr. Fritz. No, sir; I am sure he did not.
It was easier for the WC to ignore Craig, and they did so with this comment on page 160 of their report: "The Commission could not accept important elements of Craig's testimony". Why? Because having LHO picked up by another person could lead to the area of conspiracy and the WC did NOT want that at all. Roger Craig would discuss this more in his Clay Shaw testimony, and remember, this was subject to PERJURY so ask yourself this, why would he lie about something that did NOT happen when he could face charges?
Q: Did you have occasion Mr. Craig, to see the individual that you saw running down the slope and getting in the station wagon, did you have occasion to see him again on that day?
Craig: Yes, later that evening.
Q: Where did you see him?
Craig: At Captain Will Fritz's Office who is Captain of Homicide & Robbery in the Dallas Police Department.
Q: What were you doing up there on that occasion?
Craig: I was filling out a report after the assassination in my office and of course I had known about the officer being killed and I possibly in my mind possibly tied the two together and I called Captain Fritz and gave him a description of the man I saw running down the grassy knoll and he said "That sounds like --"
MR. DYMOND: I object, Your Honor.
THE COURT: You can't say what he said, Mr. Craig.
BY MR. ALCOCK: Q: As a result of this telephone conversation did you have occasion to view anyone?
Craig: Yes, sir, I went to Police Headquarters.
Q: Did you recognize anyone at Police Headquarters?
Craig: Yes, sir, in Captain Fritz's office the same man that I had seen running down the hill.
Q: Who was in Captain Fritz's Office at the time you saw the individual?
Craig: There were two men in the office. The one seating to the left as I walked in I didn't know, and he was in a business suit with a white Stetson hat and I assumed he was one of Captain Fritz's men and the other man was Lee Harvey Oswald.
Q: Now I show you what has been marked for purposes of identification as State Exhibit 1 and I ask you if you recognize the person in this picture?
Craig: Yes, sir, that is the man I saw in Captain Fritz's Office.
Q: Is this the man you saw running down the slope?
Craig: Yes, it is.
Q: The one that got in the station wagon?
Craig: Yes.
Q: And who is the individual depicted in this picture?
Craig: Lee Harvey Oswald.
Q: Did you have occasion to go into Captain Fritz's Office at the time Lee Harvey Oswald was in there?
Craig: Yes, sir, Captain Fritz showed me into his office where the two gentlemen were sitting.
Q: What did he say?
Craig: Captain Fritz, this man was --
MR. DYMOND: I object to what Captain Fritz said.
THE COURT: You can't say what Captain Fritz said but just what Lee Harvey Oswald said.
THE WITNESS [Craig]: I made an identification of Lee Harvey Oswald as the man I saw running down the grassy knoll.
This is very clear and subject to perjury, so why would Craig lie about this IF it was NOT what he saw? What possibly could he gain from saying this IF it was NOT true (and went against what his own Sheriff’s Office was saying)? Fritz did confirm for us in his affidavit that Roger Craig was in the OUTER office (and this is shown in a photograph that would emerge years later).
3.bp.blogspot.com/-SRwm-Buoekg/TeYZzk1kP-I/AAAAAAAAAWE/2a1sEQ0VJ0Y/s1600/600_roger_in_office.jpg
Quote on
Reference to testimony of Roger Craig
I don’t remember the name Roger Craig, but I do remember a man coming to my outer office and I remember one of my officers calling me outside the door of my private office. I talked to this man for a minute or two, and he started telling me a story about seeing Oswald leave the building. I don’t remember all the things this man said, but I turned him over to Lt. Baker who talked to him. Lee Harvey Oswald was in my office at this time. (VII, p. 404)
www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=41&relPageId=414
Quote off
This matches the photograph we now have and it certainly supports Craig’s claims no matter what Fritz recalls in my opinion. Obviously what Roger Craig was saying was NOT good for the DPD or the WC later on so it would NOT surprise me that Fritz claimed no memory of this happening.
[Note: For a view of this photograph go here: Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry’s book JFK Assassination Files: The book contains a photograph taken through the door of Captain Fritz's office to show the interrogation of Oswald. There, in plain view, is Roger Craig." Reasonable Doubt - Henry Hurt, p.125... citation to page 72 of "JFK Assassination Files" by Jesse Curry.]
Fritz also would claim he did NOT remember LHO getting to his feet and exclaiming anything, but even that is NOT the true picture of what was said by Roger Craig. I quoted this to Dave Von Pein back in 2008.
Quote on
The man's name? Craig was almost guaranteed to have been summoned so even if Fritz didn't know all the officers in his command someone had to have told him Craig's name before he spoke with him. Craig never said he jumped up, but said "He was leaning over the desk. At this time, (declaring everyone would know who he was) he had risen PARTIALLY out of the chair and leaning over the desk, looking directly at Captain Fritz." (VI, 270) This is a far cry from "jumping out of his chair" in my opinion. The WC disregarded Craig because of Mary Bledsoe, although they would say due to “overwhelming evidence."
Quote off
Also, a question comes to mind, why in the heck was he interrogating LHO in his OWN office when they had special rooms for that? Wouldn’t it be more likely those rooms had tape recorders and note pads too? That is just a thought.
Roger Craig would receive corroboration for his claim too later on as researchers found a document long since buried and hidden. It was Commission Document (CD) 5. Henry Hurt discussed this in his book Reasonable Doubt as he found this document in the National Archives (NA) during his research.
Quote on
Soon after the shooting, Marvin C. Robinson was driving west along Elm Street in heavy traffic. According to an FBI report dated the next day, just as Robinson crossed the Elm and Houston intersection, he saw a "light-colored Nash station wagon" stop in front of the Book Depository. A white man walked down the grassy incline from the building, got into the Nash, and the car moved off in the direction of Oak Cliff. Robinson was unable to provide any additional information. (CD5, p. 70)
www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10406&relPageId=73
Quote off
Further corroboration would come from witness Richard Carr who was working on the roof of the County Records Building on November 22, 1963. When the shooting stopped Carr descended to ground level, where he again saw the man in the sportcoat. Carr said he followed him for about a block and saw him get into a Nash Rambler driven by a dark-complected man. Henry Hurt would write this about the issue:
Quote on
It should be noted that over the years Carr's testimony has been somewhat inconsistent. And, for whatever reason, he has been seriously intimidated since originally offering his account to officials. He has been shot at and has found sticks of dynamite wired to his automobile's ignition switch. Still, Carr's earliest reports to officials are consistent on his sighting of the Nash Rambler.
Quote off
In a taped interview with researcher Jim Marrs Richard Carr would say the following about his experience as a witness.
Quote on
The FBI came to my house—there were two of them—and they said they heard I witnessed the assassination and I said I did. They told me, “If you didn’t see LHO up in the TSBD with a rifle, you didn’t witness it.” I said, “Well, the man I saw on television that they tell me is LHO was not in the window of the TSBD. That’s not the man.” And [one of the agents] said I better keep my mouth shut. He did not ask me what I saw, he told me what I saw.
Quote off
The next day his home would be ransacked by DPD officers who were executing a warrant (why?) and he was held at gunpoint. Were the WC witnesses subjected to this? I doubt it. He would receive an anonymous call advising him to “get out of Texas.” Carr would leave Texas for Montana, but would still find dynamite taped to his engine and be shot at on another occasion. It would seem what he saw was NOT wanted by the WC and the authorities.
Another witness, that makes FOUR, Helen Forrest saw the same man run toward the Nash Rambler and get in. She said, "If it wasn't Oswald, it was his identical twin." Helen Forrest was never interviewed by the WC nor was her statement published in the WC volumes. The WC’s witnesses NEVER have any corroboration, and yet, the WC has NO problem believing them. Why?
This issue should NOT be disregarded and should be explored much more as it is a possible look into the conspiracy that killed JFK. Were there more than one Oswald? This issue could show that there was or it could show that the official explanation of how LHO left the TSBD is incorrect. Given their track record that is a high probability.
For more on this topic and witnesses you can view this:
jfkconspiracyforum.freeforums.net/thread/1289/nash-rambler-witnesses